4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

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  • #801
I don't think anyone that made the glaring mistakes that he made, would be super aware of the vehicles at the scene. I think he only had a precursory knowledge of vehicles.

This defendant took his phone and drove his car to his multiple murder scene. I don't think he was operating on all 4 cylinders. Emotions and mental issues were at play here.

2 cent opinion
I agree. IMO he definitely wasn't operating on all four cylinders, based on some major mistakes.
Plans aren't what they're cracked up to be.

"The plan goes out the window once the first shot is fired" is my vernacular take on quotes by various military strategists throughout history, including Napoleon, Eisenhower, Sun Tzu and many others.

My personal favourite explains why - "Let me tell you something about plans, Colonel.
They get in the way of instincts."
Patrick Jane, Season Seven, The Mentalist

So very true IMO JME
 
  • #802
I don't see really see how those would work but you are right they could be crimes. But I'm not sure welcoming home a son for Christmas is aiding & abetting. Nor am I sure BK was ever a "fugitive." But if he was and it was a & a, the parents would have been targets, not witnesses. So they wouldn't have been called to a GJ.

You're right, and there's the definition. If they didn't know he was on the run from the law, they couldn't be aiding and abetting. And if they were aider and abetters, they wouldn't have been called to the GJ imo.
 
  • #803
My apologies for making the erroneous assumption that other states operate the way mine does with the vehicle registration expiring in the owner's birth month. Since you mentioned that WA State does not go by birthday, I checked PA (since that is the state where BK's car was registered November 13). As it turns out, Pennsylvania does not go by B-day either. However, considering that BK was born in November and that is when his registration expired, it wasn't an outlandish supposition, though as a rule, I try to avoid assumptions.

I imagine the topic of BK's LP change has been thoroughly canvased..

For anyone else who is curious, here is the info from PA's FAQ page on dmv.gov. or from the Pennsylvania Code and Bulletin
You know what I was wondering though? Since it was so near his birthday, and PA doesn't license by birthday, and his license was expiring - when did he buy the car? Did he get it for his birthday the prior year? I think that the topic has been thoroughly rehashed several times now, and it's completely irrelevant if it was a birthday purchase, but it just occurred to me. I'm going to book mark this with the PA links for 'the next time' lol.

ETA: no apology necessary. Not knowing WA license plate expiration rules is not an offense... yet
 
  • #804
Speaking of cars, LE took ALL of the cars belonging to the residents of 1122 King Rd and also the car belonging to Ethan's brother. I believe one or two vehicles have been given back to the families but others were frozen with the evidence per the defense request. I am assuming the defense requested this out of an abundance of caution. Do we know whose vehicles were returned? I believe the Chapin family said LE still had both of their vehicles...
 
  • #805
Speaking of cars, LE took ALL of the cars belonging to the residents of 1122 King Rd and also the car belonging to Ethan's brother. I believe one or two vehicles have been given back to the families but others were frozen with the evidence per the defense request. I am assuming the defense requested this out of an abundance of caution. Do we know whose vehicles were returned? I believe the Chapin family said LE still had both of their vehicles...
Kaylee's was because I am old enough to remember the great car title debate of a couple of months ago. April-ish maybe (the discussion, not the car, the car was Januaryish IIRC).

ETA: December: I didn't recall correctly Idaho murders: Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover retrieved from city lot
 
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  • #806
You know what I was wondering though? Since it was so near his birthday, and PA doesn't license by birthday, and his license was expiring - when did he buy the car? Did he get it for his birthday the prior year? I think that the topic has been thoroughly rehashed several times now, and it's completely irrelevant if it was a birthday purchase, but it just occurred to me. I'm going to book mark this with the PA links for 'the next time' lol.

ETA: no apology necessary. Not knowing WA license plate expiration rules is not an offense... yet
IIRC, somewhere it was stated way back when, the car used to belong to his parents, and they gave it to him (transferred the title to him, possibly as a gift, possibly for his birthday in November).

So yeah, it would make sense if the registration synched with his newish ownership every November, right around his birthday on the 20th IIRC.

That's the way it's done in the state where I reside anyway, the annual registration renewal is based on the month of the year when you take ownership of the vehicle.

JMO
 
  • #807
I agree. IMO he definitely wasn't operating on all four cylinders, based on some major mistakes.
Plans aren't what they're cracked up to be.

"The plan goes out the window once the first shot is fired" is my vernacular take on quotes by various military strategists throughout history, including Napoleon, Eisenhower, Sun Tzu and many others.

My personal favourite explains why - "Let me tell you something about plans, Colonel.
They get in the way of instincts."
Patrick Jane, Season Seven, The Mentalist

So very true IMO JME
Something chilling in what you say ...

Do you know what I mean?

Once he starts, it escalates from there......


 
  • #808
BBM
In my own opinion, what we see now, is only a fraction of what LE has close to the vest.
Time and time again we watch trial after trial where evidence is laid out (to the defendant's guilt) that no one knew about. And we'd get blown away in court, where we'd pick our chins up off the floor. We are now getting just fraction of what will be introduced at trial.

You could be right, but we don't know. Court can go either way.
 
  • #809
Something chilling in what you say ...

Do you know what I mean?

Once he starts, it escalates from there......*
Yes. I think I do. Instinct/compulsion + opportunity + weapon + plan(optional) = commission of crime.
I agree with you - IMO once the commitment to the commission of the crime was definite, things escalated dramatically.

I just had a hideous thought - it's been mentioned in this thread (regarding motor rego) that BK's birthday was in November. I'm REALLY hoping it wasn't close to the date of these murders....
 
  • #810
Speaking of cars, LE took ALL of the cars belonging to the residents of 1122 King Rd and also the car belonging to Ethan's brother. I believe one or two vehicles have been given back to the families but others were frozen with the evidence per the defense request. I am assuming the defense requested this out of an abundance of caution. Do we know whose vehicles were returned? I believe the Chapin family said LE still had both of their vehicles...
Xana's car was removed first, then Kaylee's.


 
  • #811
Speaking of cars, LE took ALL of the cars belonging to the residents of 1122 King Rd and also the car belonging to Ethan's brother. I believe one or two vehicles have been given back to the families but others were frozen with the evidence per the defense request. I am assuming the defense requested this out of an abundance of caution. Do we know whose vehicles were returned? I believe the Chapin family said LE still had both of their vehicles...
MOO I would think they would completely tear apart the cars assiciated closely to the victims to try and find DNA that matched the sheath because the killer could be one of their acquaintances.
 
  • #812
RBBM: Just wanted to point out that we actually don't know what the results of the forensic analysis on the car are or even if all tests have been completed. MOO

The relevant item in defense's Motion to Compel states exculpatory on "information and belief" and the State (as outlined in their response to the motion) are seeking clarification from defense re which actual reports are wanted.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest.
Motion to Compel and State's Response can be found here.
The state has handed over reports as they become available according to their response to the motion. MOO.

The item in Motion to Compel is very general. This evidence on "information and belief" could be from the car, from the PA house, from trash cans and receptacles. All these are placed together in the request. So we don't know where the defense thinks this evidence is located. In all these places, some of them, one of them? I think the hearing scheduled for June 27th will hopefully result in clarification for both sides. MOO

"All lab testing, including photographs and color diagrams
and bench notes including, but not limited to:
l. Copies of lab reports detailing the forensic evidence collection and
analysis of items recovered at Bryan Kohberger’s parents’ home,
trash cans and other receptacles, and Bryan Kohberger’s Hyundai
Elantra.
As of May 4, 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested
materials, and based upon information and belief these reports contain
exculpatory information."

Great information. Thank You!
 
  • #813
MOO I would think they would completely tear apart the cars assiciated closely to the victims to try and find DNA that matched the sheath because the killer could be one of their acquaintances.
Apparently not as they gave Kaylee and Xana's vehicles back, yet have kept the Chapin's vehicles, even though one was not even at 1122 King Rd until the next morning.
 
  • #814
Everything other than the part from the PCA in bold is theory and speculation. There is no mention in the PCA a white Elantra seen driving along King Road between 9:12 and 9:21. The officer only mentions what is quoted above about BK's phone using the same cellular resources that the King Road house uses.

IMO, Officer Payne did not mention video evidence of the car on King Road at that time because there isn't any. Considering that they were able to pull video from 30 minutes before and minutes after the likely time of the murders, it it's reasonable to believe that if the Elantra traversed the same path to the house five hours later (3 hours before the 911 call) there should be video. If there was video, IMO, there is zero reason Officer Payne would not mention it.
I'm not sure about that. I have no idea whether there is video of the Elantra from the 9ish trip.

But if there is, why would it be relevant at the PCA stage? It's not illegal to be in the vicinity of 1122 King during a time when no crime was committed there.

Sure, it might be something to introduce at trial to show "consciousness of guilt", but in the PCA? I don't see the relevance.

Just to be clear, you may well be right and I mean no disrespect in questioning your conclusion, U.N.
 
  • #815
\
Apparently not as they gave Kaylee and Xana's vehicles back, yet have kept the Chapin's vehicles, even though one was not even at 1122 King Rd until the next morning.
Does LE still have them?
 
  • #816
...
I also wanted to add that the investigators may have used Luminol; and if they've found more evidence, imo they're keeping it under wraps, since there is no reason for them to divulge everything just yet....
Doesn't Luminol light up when it encounters bleach? (I believe it's one of the problems with that substance when used as a presumptive test for blood residue. See brief link below.)

If the report of BK's sister saying he was cleaning his car with bleach is true and if Luminol was used as a presumptive test for blood (and I agree with @Erutan it probably was), BK's car would have lit up like New Year's Eve!

does luminol react to bleach
 
  • #817
LE Exams of Homicide Victims' Vehicles for Other Suspect? Acquaintance of Vic(s)?
MOO I would think they would completely tear apart the cars assiciated closely to the victims to try and find DNA that matched the sheath because the killer could be one of their acquaintances.
@Boxer Yes, makes sense that LE/FBI did extensive exams of victims' vehicles.

Like you said, it's possible --- speaking gen'ly now and not specifically to this case necessarily --- an acquaintance of a vic committed the homicides. Or may have been involved in some capacity. Aiding & abetting, destroying evd, etc.?

Even after focusing attn on a stranger as killer, later, LE & prosecution do not want the stranger-being-tried to claim LE had tunnel vision from early on, so did not investigate for other possible suspects.

That def. argument is raised so frequently, it seems automatic.
imo
 
  • #818
Apparently not as they gave Kaylee and Xana's vehicles back, yet have kept the Chapin's vehicles, even though one was not even at 1122 King Rd until the next morning.
What could be the reasoning behind keeping Ethan‘s vehicle and his brothers vehicle? Would it be that these were the last of the vehicles to be processed/examined or could there be another reason?
 
  • #819
Agree, totally think he wasn't planning on returning either. He knew he was on LE's radar big time.

The 2 traffic stops in IN within 10 minutes of each other? Yeah, for sure he was suspicious. I know it's been denied that those were unrelated, but I still have my doubts. We may find out at trial, or we may never know for sure. The body cam did show a nice close up of BK's right hand.

Wonder what else BK might have been up to in the years prior to UW or even during the time he was there from June? LE, FBI are doing/have done a deep dive into his activities. I think we are going to find out a lot more than we expected.

All MOO

Maybe that was the plan the entire time, be disagreeable as a TA and get tossed out, making it a challenge to want to come back or possibly an excuse to escape murder charges.
 
  • #820
...

He also had to get a WA driver's license before registering his car in WA. DL fees in WA are very high. His PA plate was good until the end of Nov (not April. See PCA for verification of Nov expiration.) So it's not so clear that he was choosing to be foolish financially by waiting until Nov.

JMO

I think we are wrong to assume BK forfeited his chance at in-state tuition in 2023 by not registering his car until November.

There must be out-of-state students who don't even own cars, so that can't be the only way to prove residency. Getting his WA drivers' licence sometime earlier would accomplish the same purpose. So might things like utility bills or his lease.

BK was both a student and WSU employee (TA) beginning in August of 2022, so that would have gone a long way to proving residency in Washington state.

It's possible that BK took care to change his plates before they expired in PA. Perhaps he thought that doing so was a way of "hiding in place" or perhaps he simply wanted to avoid being stopped for expired tags. Occam's Razor.

In MOO we are overthinking it to assume the new plates were part of some master-criminal plan. (BTW, I had one colleague in grad school who was from out-of-state. My memory--of 30 years ago--is that she was able to establish residency retroactively, without too much trouble. This was in California.)
 
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