4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #82

[katydid23]

AFAIK, official supporters (defense team, family) aren't speaking. I doubt AT is listening to strange SM supporters. By all accounts, she's way too good for that.

MOO.

What do you think their defense will be?

I think they will have to rebut some of the bad facts. They cannot just ignore all of it.

If they could prove he was there, but for reasons unconnected to the killings, he would be home free.

 

[jepop]

What do you think their defense will be?

I think they will have to rebut some of the bad facts. They cannot just ignore all of it.

If they could prove he was there, but for reasons unconnected to the killings, he would be home free.

State have recently placed demand for Alibi defense as per Idaho Court Rules after arraignment, so if they are going to go down that route, defense will be letting the state know soon. Though per gag order we won't see any details or possibly won't know if defense do indicate such. MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

I think there would be more calls to MPD for suspicious persons AFTER the murders. JMO

Also, there are ways to spy that are less noticeable than others. And very crowded student filled neighbourhoods would be less suspicious of an unknown person as there are so many residents moving in and out and so many more visitors than the average family type neighborhood. [Unless that neighborhood had just experienced a quadruple murder] JMO

Absolutely agree about there being an increase after a quadruple murder: it has only been 7 months.

Just relaying my observations reading the daily log during this time, still reading it. Neighborhoods and businesses, students and business owners reporting people for all types of behavior, stange cars parked, bicycles, items, people sleeping, strange noises, cars with doors open, cars with people in them, people in a park etc.

Many posters have said that they feel BK gives off a creepy vibe. Reportedly stares, makes people uncomfortable, doesn't blend in social situations. IMO, the house location has been described as a fish bowl, with a lot of activity. I don't think he could have sat still and close enough for a long period of time without being noticed. JMO Maybe farther away with sight aids? Or some type of following?

It would be interesting to know the suspicious persons calls between June and November from that neighborhood. MOO

 

[TL4S]

Absolutely agree about there being an increase after a quadruple murder: it has only been 7 months.

Just relaying my observations reading the daily log during this time, still reading it. Neighborhoods and businesses, students and business owners reporting people for all types of behavior, stange cars parked, bicycles, items, people sleeping, strange noises, cars with doors open, cars with people in them, people in a park etc.

Many posters have said that they feel BK gives off a creepy vibe. Reportedly stares, makes people uncomfortable, doesn't blend in social situations. IMO, the house location has been described as a fish bowl, with a lot of activity. I don't think he could have sat still and close enough for a long period of time without being noticed. JMO Maybe farther away with sight aids? Or some type of following?

It would be interesting to know the suspicious persons calls between June and November from that neighborhood. MOO

I remember it was noted that most of the previous 12 times BK's phone was in the same cellular coverage area as King Rd, it was late-night or early-morning hours.

 

[10ofRods]

The advantage of a smart TV is you can dump cable and stream TV via the internet instead - about 65% cheaper. You can also get international TV with a VPN. If you don't want the camera to be able to watch you, you can turn it around or put a piece of tape over the lens. You already have a computer or other smart device that people could watch you through since you are on the internet, so if you think about it, the risk is already in your house.

As far as these college students go, they had computer monitors and TVs, cellphones and probably tablets, all of which could be used to watch them. It will be interesting to find out if that happened in this case.

Thank you so much for educating me! Had no clue.

We use Apple TV box, which allows us to cut the cable but no camera and no microphone. I have all kinds of security on my computer. I have friends who tape their cameras, but it's not having pictures of my face out there that worries me - it's other information. We did have our ID stolen, but it was physically stolen by a neighbor who jumped the fence and turned off the electricity to our house to turn off our cameras. That's when we got the trail cams.

Even my computer at work has been infected by malware that sent things like browsing history and cookies to some randos out there on the web. Fortunately, security files are updated almost daily at work.

I did think a Smart TV was a great idea, and can deal with the camera part (with tape). It's the mic that bothers me. Esp. with our neighbors. Turns out there are very few without mics (so I'm reading instructions on how to muffle mic activity - apparently hard to get rid of the mic altogether).

I am guessing the young people of U of I are mostly lax about their phone and internet security, as are most of my students. For them, it's Freedom Time and they want to meet other people. I am now thinking that both the Grub Truck live stream and SnapChat/Maps were probably widely used.

 

[Nila Aella]

State have recently placed demand for Alibi defense as per Idaho Court Rules after arraignment, so if they are going to go down that route, defense will be letting the state know soon. Though per gag order we won't see any details or possibly won't know if defense do indicate such. MOO

I looked this up earlier today
He has ten days from demand - but then it says unless the court otherwise directs

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/052323%20States%20Request%20for%20Discovery%20Disclosure%20%20Alibi%20Demand.pdf

If the defendant intends to rely on the defense of alibi, the defendant must comply with Idaho Code § 19-519.

Rule 12.1. Notice of Alibi | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

19-519. NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI. (1) At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.
(2) Within ten (10) days after receipt of the defendant’s notice of alibi but in no event less than ten (10) days before trial, unless the court otherwise directs, the prosecuting attorney shall serve upon the defendant or his attorney a written notice stating the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom the prosecution intends to rely to establish the defendant’s presence at the scene of the alleged offense and any other witnesses to be relied on to rebut testimony of any of the defendant’s alibi witnesses.
(3) If prior to or during trial a party learns of an additional witness whose identity, if known, should have been included in the information furnished under subsection (1) or subsection (2) of this section, the party shall promptly notify the other party or his attorney of the existence and identity of such additional witness.
(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
History:
[19-519, added 1978, ch. 301, sec. 1, p. 758.]

BBM

Section 19-519 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[10ofRods]

I looked this up earlier today
He has ten days from demand - but then it says unless the court otherwise directs
View attachment 426564

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/052323%20States%20Request%20for%20Discovery%20Disclosure%20%20Alibi%20Demand.pdf

If the defendant intends to rely on the defense of alibi, the defendant must comply with Idaho Code § 19-519.

Rule 12.1. Notice of Alibi | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

19-519. NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI. (1) At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.
(2) Within ten (10) days after receipt of the defendant’s notice of alibi but in no event less than ten (10) days before trial, unless the court otherwise directs, the prosecuting attorney shall serve upon the defendant or his attorney a written notice stating the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom the prosecution intends to rely to establish the defendant’s presence at the scene of the alleged offense and any other witnesses to be relied on to rebut testimony of any of the defendant’s alibi witnesses.
(3) If prior to or during trial a party learns of an additional witness whose identity, if known, should have been included in the information furnished under subsection (1) or subsection (2) of this section, the party shall promptly notify the other party or his attorney of the existence and identity of such additional witness.
(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
History:
[19-519, added 1978, ch. 301, sec. 1, p. 758.]

BBM

Section 19-519 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Thank you SO much for looking this up. I knew that some states have this and the alibi has to be submitted to Court in advance of trial. Defense has to submit names and addresses of the places/alibi-providers/alternate suspects, as I understand it. I suppose the defendant can be their own witness (4).

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

What do you think their defense will be?

I think they will have to rebut some of the bad facts. They cannot just ignore all of it.

I have no idea what their defense will be and that's kind of my point. They haven't let on and due to the gag order, there's no way for us to know, IMO.

If they could prove he was there, but for reasons unconnected to the killings, he would be home free.

I'm not sure about that. It's going to take a lot more for him to be home free, IMO.

 

[I'm Nobody]

What do you think their defense will be?

I think they will have to rebut some of the bad facts. They cannot just ignore all of it.

If they could prove he was there, but for reasons unconnected to the killings, he would be home free.

BK being a book guy probably studied exonerations. IMO BK wants to be cleared, exonerated, all charges dropped rather than found not guilty. Didn't AT use the word "exonerate" in one motion asking Thompson to provide the evidence that would exonerate BK? Black's law dictionary: Exoneration: The removal of a burden, charge or duty.

From the looks of the motions filed, BK's defense, maybe all defenses, will use one or more of the known exoneration contributing factors. The defense motions do seem to fit the categories.
Of course these are also great "not guilty" strategies.

JMO

EXONERATIONS:
The National Registry of Exonerations has recorded 3,284 exonerations in the United States from 1989 through the writing of this report (May 8, 2023).

Contributing factors. All exonerations (3,284)

1. Perjury or false accusation.2,078 (63% of cases) Not my car, false phone pings, alibi........
2. Official Misconduct. 1,938 (59% of cases). The Brady/Giglio requests.
3. Inadequate legal defense. 879 (28% of cases). Is BK keeping a list in his back pocket just in case?
4. Mistaken witness identification. 892 (27% of cases) BF defense interview.
5. False/misleading forensic evidence. 774 (24% of cases) AT requested all lab records.
6. False Confession. 402 (12% of cases) AT all records of what BK said to LE at time of his arrest.


These are after-conviction records.
EXONERATIONS: The Registry recorded 233 exonerations that occurred in 2022.
The 233 exonerations that occurred in 2022 included:
HOMICIDE: Of 233 exonerated in 2022, 81 defendants were exonerated of homicide—80 for murder, and one for manslaughter. All using the above contributing factors.

NO innocent person should spend a day in prison.
Unfortunately, on average nationally, the innocent spend 14 years in prison before exoneration and release.
3/05/21. Idaho Just Passed a Law to Compensate the Innocent.
Idaho became the 36th state to adopt a wrongful conviction act and will now compensate $62,000 for each year of wrongful imprisonment. Seventy-five thousand dollars ($75,000) for each year of im- prisonment if the claimant was imprisoned on death row;
IDAHO WRONGFUL CONVICTION ACT

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/NRE%20Annual%20Report%202022.pdf

edit: add my speculation only. No idea which factor will take the lead.

 

[schooling]

BK being a book guy probably studied exonerations. IMO BK wants to be cleared, exonerated, all charges dropped rather than found not guilty. Didn't AT use the word "exonerate" in one motion asking Thompson to provide the evidence that would exonerate BK? Black's law dictionary: Exoneration: The removal of a burden, charge or duty.

From the looks of the motions filed, BK's defense, maybe all defenses, will use one or more of the known exoneration contributing factors. The defense motions do seem to fit the categories.
Of course these are also great "not guilty" strategies.

JMO

EXONERATIONS:
The National Registry of Exonerations has recorded 3,284 exonerations in the United States from 1989 through the writing of this report (May 8, 2023).

Contributing factors. All exonerations (3,284)

1. Perjury or false accusation.2,078 (63% of cases) Not my car, false phone pings, alibi........
2. Official Misconduct. 1,938 (59% of cases). The Brady/Giglio requests.
3. Inadequate legal defense. 879 (28% of cases). Is BK keeping a list in his back pocket just in case?
4. Mistaken witness identification. 892 (27% of cases) BF defense interview.
5. False/misleading forensic evidence. 774 (24% of cases) AT requested all lab records.
6. False Confession. 402 (12% of cases) AT all records of what BK said to LE at time of his arrest.


These are after-conviction records.
EXONERATIONS: The Registry recorded 233 exonerations that occurred in 2022.
The 233 exonerations that occurred in 2022 included:
HOMICIDE: Of 233 exonerated in 2022, 81 defendants were exonerated of homicide—80 for murder, and one for manslaughter. All using the above contributing factors.

NO innocent person should spend a day in prison.
Unfortunately, on average nationally, the innocent spend 14 years in prison before exoneration and release.
3/05/21. Idaho Just Passed a Law to Compensate the Innocent.
Idaho became the 36th state to adopt a wrongful conviction act and will now compensate $62,000 for each year of wrongful imprisonment. Seventy-five thousand dollars ($75,000) for each year of im- prisonment if the claimant was imprisoned on death row;
IDAHO WRONGFUL CONVICTION ACT

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/NRE%20Annual%20Report%202022.pdf

edit: add my speculation only. No idea which factor will take the lead.

I’m guessing that the 3,200 is a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of total convictions out there.

And for my lawyer sleuthers out there. Isn’t this what you try to do pretrial? Get as much as you can discredited and thrown out?

Which means the success rate is extremely low.

MOO

 

[Sjöberg]

Showerthought1: have we heard Bryans voice anywhere other than the police stops bodycam? Is it possible that he is staying silent just to improve his chances of the surviving roommate not identifying his voice (the "I'm gonna help you" thing)? Maybe they hope she'll mis-identify someone else or say that she cannot be sure?

Showerthought2: has Ethans family ever said anything at all about Xana? Like how sad they are she is dead as well or how happy they are they were together or how she fought for them or anything? I cannot recall them ever saying anything - and maybe I just missed it. But if I was stabbed together with my boyfriend in my early 20s, I cannot imagine a single natural scenario, where my family would not comment at all about my partner.

 

[Cool Cats]

Showerthought1: have we heard Bryans voice anywhere other than the police stops bodycam? Is it possible that he is staying silent just to improve his chances of the surviving roommate not identifying his voice (the "I'm gonna help you" thing)? Maybe they hope she'll mis-identify someone else or say that she cannot be sure?

Showerthought2: has Ethans family ever said anything at all about Xana? Like how sad they are she is dead as well or how happy they are they were together or how she fought for them or anything? I cannot recall them ever saying anything - and maybe I just missed it. But if I was stabbed together with my boyfriend in my early 20s, I cannot imagine a single natural scenario, where my family would not comment at all about my partner.

He didn't stay silent in court, he said yes 3 times and said no once during his last hearing.

If the prosecution wants to have the witness listen to his voice which I do not think they will do, they can get a voice exemplar.

voice exemplar definition · LSData

A voice exemplar is a sample of someone's voice that is used to compare with a recorded voice to see if they are the same person. This is often used in legal cases to identify a suspect or verify a witness's testimony.

www.lsd.law

Ethan's family spoke at the vigil at the Campus. They talked to the other parents privately, no doubt sharing condolences privately with Xana's family and friends.

2 Cents

 

[Nila Aella]

I remember it was noted that most of the previous 12 times BK's phone was in the same cellular coverage area as King Rd, it was late-night or early-morning hours.

Yes, less noticeable at nighttime/early morning hours. It is pretty dark on those body cam visits to the house. White car with a person sitting in it still might stand out depending on where it is parked, but park in the back lot (like a visitor) and walk maybe. I also think about the neighbors dog being alerted to someone lurking, especially if outside a car. MOO

The only real time range that I recall seeing is the Aug 21 report: Sunday 10:34-11:35. Pretty active neighborhood even in the early morning hours (bodycam of that night). Could be looked at different ways: people around to see someone suspicious or more people around for a lurker to blend in.

I haven't really noted times of suspicious reports: but will be checking now. Thx.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not in the US. It is imperative to remain silent, even if you are innocent because anything you say can and will be used against you. For what it's worth, BK is doing the right thing in this case thus far.

Respectfully, I don't necessarily believe that is true in all cases. I've seen quite a few defendants vigorously protest their innocence from the beginning and be cleared, especially if they're innocent. Providing a solid alibi can get you cleared by LE.

MOO

 

[Idaho transplant]

Showerthought1: have we heard Bryans voice anywhere other than the police stops bodycam? Is it possible that he is staying silent just to improve his chances of the surviving roommate not identifying his voice (the "I'm gonna help you" thing)? Maybe they hope she'll mis-identify someone else or say that she cannot be sure?

Showerthought2: has Ethans family ever said anything at all about Xana? Like how sad they are she is dead as well or how happy they are they were together or how she fought for them or anything? I cannot recall them ever saying anything - and maybe I just missed it. But if I was stabbed together with my boyfriend in my early 20s, I cannot imagine a single natural scenario, where my family would not comment at all about my partner.

I don't think it's a matter of the Chapin family not recognizing Xana as their son's girlfriend and mourning her death as much as it is about the family not expressing their thoughts about the crimes in general. Steve Goncalves has been very vocal and at the other spectrum has been the Chapin family. They also didn't attend the last hearing.

I would just surmise that each family is dealing with this horrendous crime in their own way. Ethan's two siblings (triplets) did complete the just-ending year of college. The family may have closed ranks for a myriad of reasons.

 

[girlhasnoname]

What do you think their defense will be?

I think they will have to rebut some of the bad facts. They cannot just ignore all of it.

If they could prove he was there, but for reasons unconnected to the killings, he would be home free.

Respectfully BBM

Then why would his DNA be on the knife sheath beside a murdered girl? I don't think BK is anywhere near home free.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully BBM

Then why would his DNA be on the knife sheath beside a murdered girl? I don't think BK is anywhere near home free.

MOO

There are a couple of ways to explain that, if it can be proven he was there for other reasons. [Not that I would believe any of them]
But let's say someone else killed them, and they set up BK by inviting him over to buy some drugs at 4 am----knowing they could stage the scene with his DNA, and get his car on ring cams, etc.

Not saying it happened, just saying there are scenarios where that could be seen as staged. [ Unless of course, this is a lot more DNA we don't know about yet]

 

[Wallendo]

The Chapin family owes no explanation to anyone.

Grief brings on a plethora of emotions including blame and guilt. If EC had slept in his fraternity house bed, he would still be alive. If he hadn’t dated Xana , he would still be alive. At some point, XK’s family may have wondered why EC could not save their daughter. These are all normal thoughts that surviving families struggle with.

If they choose to speak that is their right. If they choose to grieve in silence that also is their right.

 

[Nila Aella]

Going through the orders today: found this about Exhibit A and Exhibit B in the release of property order. Before seeing this, I wasn't exactly sure what exhibit B was. MOO

IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that all items of property and/or evidence from 122 King Rd.. Moscow. Idaho, currently in the possession of the parties (State’s evidence/property attached as Exhibit A; Defense evidence/property attached as Exhibit B) shall remain in their respective custody and control until further agreement of the parties or order of the court.....

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/032723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact.pdf

 

[arielilane]

I already have the 2 min intro and a couple of other short minutes downloaded from iPhone.

If interested:
https://t.co/lhcFfarMvs
ABC Audio ‘The King Road Killings: An Idaho Murder Mystery’ Podcast Series Launches June 7