4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[BeginnerSleuther]

I may be wrong but I thought he gave only a 5 min interview upon arrest . Then got a lawyer

Is that standard if one is innocent to refuse to answer any questions thereon upon attorney recommendation and presence

I’d have thought an attorney would say tell your side ( if he had said he was innocent and had an alibi)
Maybe im naive

It's not only standard; it's often advised to get a lawyer before talking to police. Once you have a lawyer, they pretty much want to call the shots. I don't think most say tell your side. They help you answer questions authorities have, but I haven't heard any say tell your side. Giving information not asked can actually hurt you, even if you're innocent.

I don't remember that BK refused questioning after he got an attorney. Did you read that somewhere?

MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I’d have thought an attorney would say tell your side ( if he had said he was innocent and had an alibi)
Maybe im naive

I don't remember that BK refused questioning after he got an attorney. Did you read that somewhere?

They help you answer questions authorities have, but I haven't heard any say tell your side

The only advice an attorney would give to a homicide suspect is "Shut the **** up." They would not advise giving any information at all, including a clear-cut alibi. Only the attorney should be presenting that information, depending on the circumstances, maybe to the prosecutor or in front of a judge. Invoking your constitutional rights is not called "not cooperating" or refusing to answer questions. Asking for an attorney or saying you want to use your right to remain silent, is not "uncooperative", similar to electing not to testify is not called "refusing to testify". MOO but from knowing a lot of attorneys/education.

 

[Cool Cats]

I may be wrong but I thought he gave only a 5 min interview upon arrest . Then got a lawyer

Is that standard if one is innocent to refuse to answer any questions thereon upon attorney recommendation and presence

I’d have thought an attorney would say tell your side ( if he had said he was innocent and had an alibi)
Maybe im naive

People blab all the time after arrest but if your at the police station and chose to call an attorney, the attorney most likely will say "don't say anything until I get there."

Then the attorney would first talk to you privately and then advise you if there might be some things you could disclose to police - but only with the attorney present. Or the attorney could advise you to take the 5th and remain silent.

Idaho Murder Suspect Talked To Law Enforcement Briefly After Arrest Before Invoking His Rights, His Attorney Says | Oxygen

The man suspected of killing four University of Idaho college students initially agreed to speak with law enforcement officers after his arrest Friday morning, but then invoked his right to an attorney a short time later, according to his attorney.

www.oxygen.com

Bryan Kohberger initially agreed to waive his Miranda rights and speak with law enforcement officers at the Pennsylvania State Police barracks for about five to 15 minutes.

Kohberger’s Monroe County public defender, Jason LaBar, told the news outlet that police asked Kohberger whether he understood what was going on and he said “Yes, certainly I’m aware of what’s going on. I’m 10 miles away from this.”

After admitting he was aware of the sensational case however, LaBar said Kohberger invoked his right to counsel and asked for an attorney.

“He’s calm. He’s fully aware,” LaBar said of his client’s demeanor. “It’s obvious he’s very intelligent…He already has a Master’s. It shouldn’t shock anyone that he’s intelligent.”

LaBar said in a Tuesday appearance on the “TODAY” show that Kohberger believes he will be exonerated of the charges against him.

“He said this is not him,” LaBar said. “He believes he is going to be exonerated. That’s what he believes, those were his words.”

He added that Kohberger’s family was “obviously shocked” about the allegations against him.

“They don’t believe it to be Bryan,” he said. “This is certainly completely out of character, the allegations, and really they’re just trying to be supportive with the understanding that these four families have suffered loss, so that they’re sympathetic towards that, and that’s why it should remain really private.”

In a statement from the family to People, Kohberger’s father Michael Kohberger, mother Marianne Kohberger and sister Amanda expressed a similar sentiment.

“First and foremost, we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children,” they said. “There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them. We will continue to let the legal process unfold and as a family we will love and support our son and brother.”

They also urged the public to grant Kohberger the presumption of innocence and not to judge based on “unknown facts” and “erroneous assumptions.”

 

[Rumination1]

Thank you to those upthread for clarifying.

 

[Balthazar]

A judge rules they had to stop selling the fake Vans, but did ALL the merchandise get removed from every store? What are the chances that all stores were in compliance?

Judge bars Walmart from selling shoes Vans alleges are knockoffs

The shoe brand accused the retailer of flooding the market with "cheap, low-quality, and confusingly similar shoes."

www.retaildive.com

Of course fake Vans shoes could have been obtained many other ways and at literally any time so this may be completely and totally meaningless.

 

[I'm Nobody]

@Balthazar agree BK could have gotten Vans/knock off Vans even at thrift store knowing he would dispose of them after. Not sure this matters but black and white Nikes were seized at his home when arrested in PA. I assumed he was wearing the Nikes. Don't runners usually have a favorite shoe? Maybe he's not loyal to one brand of shoes. I think he may have bought a cheap throw away pair for his murder kit and didn't care brand knowing he was getting rid of them along with everything else.

JMO
edit ugh sorry. train of thought

 

[gitana1]

Yes, long time sleuthers have seen a variety of murder cases, researched them, looked at the evidence and Motions and can compare them to this Case and see the overwhelming evidence against the defendant.

However, I think it is good to "poke holes" in the State's Case. The State is the one that has to prove the defendant committed the crimes charged. Good to discuss defense strategies and "who else could have done it."

But I would like to hear theories behind the "hole poking." To be able have discussions about it.

Like what is the theory behind this?

"Someone besides BK left the knife sheath, the sheath doesn't prove BK was in the house."

Or this:

"At first, the FBI was one year off on the year of the car so it can't be BK's car."

Or:

"The car photos don't show BK in the car so it's not his car."

But the defense cannot rule out that this is BK's car. They can't say this doesn't look like his car. The car photos actually show the jury how much the car photos look like BK's car.

Also, the defense cannot rule out BK's car by using the cell phone evidence. They can't say that BK's phone was nowhere near the white car on the videos because BK's phone pings on cell towers the white car was near. And the phone was "coincidently" turned off at time murders took place.

Also of note, videos show the car coming and going from the same town BK lives in.

"DM's description fits alot of people."

The defense can't rule out BK based on witness testimony. They can't tell the jury that the witness testimony does not match BK, just like they can't tell the jury the car on video doesn't match BK's car.

"BK was set up."

How? Why? By whom?

I don’t know. I haven’t seen any such theories. But from what I have seen, some will come up with all sorts of theories, regardless of a lack of evidence or logic justifying the theru.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

The post I was replying to said: "Without the print, the defense would have gone after her testimony and try to taint it by questioning how much alcohol she had consumed that night"

And I'm saying that the defense is still going to do that, regardless of the shoe print, IMO. I never insinuated nor said someone made the claim the defense wouldn't question her.

Nevertheless, the print will give more creditability to her statement.
Edited to moo.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM

The "they" who spoke about bleach having been used according to multiple stories in the MSM are unnamed LE who supposedly said BK was "observed" using bleach to clean his car. Here's one example of the bleach claim but there are others. Bryan Kohberger’s sister feared he was involved in Idaho murders

The sister never mentioned bleach so far as I can tell. She never said she smelled bleach or said she saw bleach. But various stories have claimed that's why the sister didn't find anything in the car when she supposedly looked. That's not believable IMO for lots of reasons. And I can find no credible source for the story that BK was observed using bleach. Many have said he might have but there's no on-the-record source I know of that says he did.
JMO

So...so far, unnamed LE (who may or may not be close to the investigation) and a sourceless insertion of bleach into news articles after the Dateline aired.

I agree - there is not an on-the-record source for bleach. And, since there would be telltale signs of bleach (Kohberger would have to be an idiot to use it), I await the actual evidence at trial.

JMO

 

[ilovewings]

People blab all the time after arrest but if your at the police station and chose to call an attorney, the attorney most likely will say "don't say anything until I get there."

Then the attorney would first talk to you privately and then advise you if there might be some things you could disclose to police - but only with the attorney present. Or the attorney could advise you to take the 5th and remain silent.

Idaho Murder Suspect Talked To Law Enforcement Briefly After Arrest Before Invoking His Rights, His Attorney Says | Oxygen

The man suspected of killing four University of Idaho college students initially agreed to speak with law enforcement officers after his arrest Friday morning, but then invoked his right to an attorney a short time later, according to his attorney.

www.oxygen.com

Bryan Kohberger initially agreed to waive his Miranda rights and speak with law enforcement officers at the Pennsylvania State Police barracks for about five to 15 minutes.

Kohberger’s Monroe County public defender, Jason LaBar, told the news outlet that police asked Kohberger whether he understood what was going on and he said “Yes, certainly I’m aware of what’s going on. I’m 10 miles away from this.”

After admitting he was aware of the sensational case however, LaBar said Kohberger invoked his right to counsel and asked for an attorney.

“He’s calm. He’s fully aware,” LaBar said of his client’s demeanor. “It’s obvious he’s very intelligent…He already has a Master’s. It shouldn’t shock anyone that he’s intelligent.”

LaBar said in a Tuesday appearance on the “TODAY” show that Kohberger believes he will be exonerated of the charges against him.

“He said this is not him,” LaBar said. “He believes he is going to be exonerated. That’s what he believes, those were his words.”

He added that Kohberger’s family was “obviously shocked” about the allegations against him.

“They don’t believe it to be Bryan,” he said. “This is certainly completely out of character, the allegations, and really they’re just trying to be supportive with the understanding that these four families have suffered loss, so that they’re sympathetic towards that, and that’s why it should remain really private.”

In a statement from the family to People, Kohberger’s father Michael Kohberger, mother Marianne Kohberger and sister Amanda expressed a similar sentiment.

“First and foremost, we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children,” they said. “There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them. We will continue to let the legal process unfold and as a family we will love and support our son and brother.”

They also urged the public to grant Kohberger the presumption of innocence and not to judge based on “unknown facts” and “erroneous assumptions.”

The public will do what the public does: be judgmental. In as much as we the public are not in a court of law we can think and express any thoughts (within reason) about this case we wish.

 

[PromotedPawn]

I may be wrong but I thought he gave only a 5 min interview upon arrest . Then got a lawyer

Is that standard if one is innocent to refuse to answer any questions thereon upon attorney recommendation and presence

I’d have thought an attorney would say tell your side ( if he had said he was innocent and had an alibi)
Maybe im naive

I wouldn't say a word. It's a quadruple homicide. Once you're arrested, LE has already made up their mind that you committed the crime, a judge or grand jury has agreed there is enough evidence to arrest. There is nothing a suspect can say to LE at that point to gain an immediate release or for them to say "oops, you know what, we've got the wrong person." There have been too many documented false/ forced confessions. MOO

 

[wary]

I don’t know. I haven’t seen any such theories. But from what I have seen, some will come up with all sorts of theories, regardless of a lack of evidence or logic justifying the theru.

Not to brag, but I’ve seen all of the theories in your quoted post. I’d like to add one: “Maybe BK, perfectly innocently, gave someone a ride over to the murder scene, but stayed outside, and had absolutely no idea that murders had taken place until he heard it on the news. And since then, he’s just not said anything to put LE on the track of the Real Killer because he’s so afraid that the Real Killer will hurt him” I’ve heard THAT one—believe me, I’m not nearly creative enough to invent it.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Thinking of these fathers today.

• Ben Mogen, Maddie's dad
• Steve Goncalves, Kaylee's dad
• Jeff Kernodle, Xana's dad
• Jim Chapin, Ethan's dad

Wishing them strength and love.

 

[gremlin444]

Thinking of these fathers today.

• Ben Mogen, Maddie's dad
• Steve Goncalves, Kaylee's dad
• Jeff Kernodle, Xana's dad
• Jim Chapin, Ethan's dad

Wishing them strength and love.

Definitely thinking of them all day today. *sniff*


Thinking of BK's dad Michael K also. You could see how proud he was of his son in the Indiana police stop videos. If the Taptalk posts are true, even BK said his dad was great and did everything to help him. Heck, the man clearly was willing to fly out and drive back cross country.

 

[I'm Nobody]

Definitely thinking of them all day today. *sniff*


Thinking of BK's dad Michael K also. You could see how proud he was of his son in the Indiana police stop videos. If the Taptalk posts are true, even BK said his dad was great and did everything to help him. Heck, the man clearly was willing to fly out and drive back cross country.

Very kind of you @gremlin444 Long ago I asked a man who lost his wife what he'd do if he had one more day with her. His answer never left me. He said, "I'd be content."

Wonder what Ben Mogen, Steve Goncalves, Jeff Kernodle, or Jim Chapin would do/give for one more FaceTime, one more phone call with their child?

IMO it's important to keep the victims' and their families' names in these threads. Court proceedings and then thread discussions become all about BK. You are right, BK's family are forgotten victims it seems, I apologize. But somehow this first Father's Day without their children, Michael K's situation doesn't seem the same to me.
JMO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I don’t know. I haven’t seen any such theories. But from what I have seen, some will come up with all sorts of theories, regardless of a lack of evidence or logic justifying the theru.

I know you’ve been around on the forums forever, but I can’t remember if you followed fhe Dellen Millard stuff. People were coming up with everything short of alien abduction to explain away the totality of evidence against the accused (and later convicted) murderer.

Even to the point of suggesting that one of the victims (Tom Bosma) was somehow involved in organized crime. (He was a churchgoing family man who was just trying to sell a truck.)

 

[katydid23]

Is he really going to be able to win his appeal and deny the Grand Jury charges?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is he really going to be able to win his appeal and deny the Grand Jury charges?

No way IMO. I believe the State had enough evidence in late Dec for the PCA and much, much more developed by the time it got in front of the GJ.

MOO

 

[MoominMama222]

I don’t know. I haven’t seen any such theories. But from what I have seen, some will come up with all sorts of theories, regardless of a lack of evidence or logic justifying the theru.

I think in this case, many people consciously or subconsciously wish he is not guilty because he's a young college student with a loving family and it's unfathomable-- the horror of what he is alleged to do. I feel for his parents and can identify with the mother in many ways who just seems like a normal sweet mother, and in empathizing with her, I hope at some level there's been a terrible mistake. This is only one part of my feeling/thinking, because above all I want justice for the families of the victims and hope they do have the right person for their sake. But I think the relatability of the alleged perpetrator and family comes into play. He doesn't have Ted Bundy's arrogance and swagger. He doesn't have Alex Murdaugh's history of power and corruption. There's a vulnerability to BK that probably triggers a lot of people's empathy. You could say he was just an awkward, misguided, lost college student who was too argumentative and socially inept. Even if women said he was sexist or creepy, many people might have a young man like that in their family who they hope will grow and mature and change. He's not dirty, disheveled, unshaven with a tattoo on his face who was beaten by a family of deadbeats. So, I think there's some cognitive dissonance for many people. That's why people see evil in his eyes or read all kinds of stuff into his body language, IMO--to make it make sense.

 

[iamshadow21]

I think in this case, many people consciously or subconsciously wish he is not guilty because he's a young college student with a loving family and it's unfathomable-- the horror of what he is alleged to do. I feel for his parents and can identify with the mother in many ways who just seems like a normal sweet mother, and in empathizing with her, I hope at some level there's been a terrible mistake. This is only one part of my feeling/thinking, because above all I want justice for the families of the victims and hope they do have the right person for their sake. But I think the relatability of the alleged perpetrator and family comes into play. He doesn't have Ted Bundy's arrogance and swagger. He doesn't have Alex Murdaugh's history of power and corruption. There's a vulnerability to BK that probably triggers a lot of people's empathy. You could say he was just an awkward, misguided, lost college student who was too argumentative and socially inept. Even if women said he was sexist or creepy, many people might have a young man like that in their family who they hope will grow and mature and change. He's not dirty, disheveled, unshaven with a tattoo on his face who was beaten by a family of deadbeats. So, I think there's some cognitive dissonance for many people. That's why people see evil in his eyes or read all kinds of stuff into his body language, IMO--to make it make sense.

I agree with this.

I also think that it's natural for people to think they are a good judge of character, to feel that they can tell when someone close to them has evil intent in their heart. It's just too frightening to think that someone might pass unnoticed in their sphere, at their work, in their church, opposite them at the dinner table, or alongside them at their kids' sports games, even though most people capable of these crimes don't come with warning sirens following them around. For every Ramirez, there's a Bundy, there's a Ridgway, there's a Rader, there's a List. There are people who compartmentalise very well between their public face and the private one only their victims ever see. They walk among us unseen, and that is terrifying.

MOO