4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[schooling]

The discussions on BK's DNA on a knife sheath found next to one of the victims, and how it led LE to him keeps taking me back to a discussion he supposedly had with his neighbor about submitting his DNA for genealogical testing:

Tracking Kohberger: Idaho Murder Suspect Told Neighbor About Taking an Ancestral DNA Test

Kohberger told neighbor of prior DNA test, raising questions about how police found him - East Idaho News

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger sent DNA for genetic testing to explore ancestry: neighbor

It doesn't really make sense on the face of it since LE apparently didn't find a DNA match to him in 'available databases'.

Maybe he said this under false pretenses to add to the distraction and noise of DNA evidence and databases, as in the guy told me his DNA "was out there" !

So if his DNA wasn't found in the house then he couldn't be a suspect?

Or he sent it to a company that will not share DNA with LE?

Or sent someone else’s DNA in under an assumed name whose DNA is an unidentified male whose DNA would be found at the house?

It's a bit mind bending, but hey, lesser criminals have come up with all kinds of “don’t look over here” tactics, and he was a criminology student after all so should know a thing or two about DNA.

This has always been a real head scratcher for me because the DNA aspect of this case seems complicated enough as it is.

I could be wrong about this not making sense, if he did say this to his neighbor, but if it does make sense it seems like he was planting this info re his DNA with his unsuspecting neighbor to "add to the churn" and possibly goes to a SODDI/TODDI defense.

Which as I've wondered often about before, now sounds like it could be surfacing up from out of all the possibilities (SODDI/TODDI).

MOO

I tell everyone my genealogy results.

In reality it’s not mine. It’s my sisters. We share both parents so it’s a super close approximation of my genetic makeup.

It could really be something as benign as that or maybe he just lied for the sake of conversation.

 

[schooling]

I agree. It is so easy to speculate that things are X. It is sort of like when you have a puzzle and some of the edges are filled in. That's not enough to form an entire picture. I do feel some momentum and that is helpful. We may know a lot more after Tuesday. Or not. IMO.

Media is creating any perceived momentum…both sides.

IMO if this case went to trial this spring, with the evidence we had 6 months ago. BK would likely be found guilty IMO.

The vacuum (the wait trial) is being filled with nonsense and hot air. Which amplifies things that we’ve been talking about since November 2022. Like the likelihood that there are dozens of unknown dna in a house that had a zillion parties.

The fact that there are only a few is worse for BK. Especially when you consider it’s his on a part of the likely murder weapon.

 

[Nila Aella]

In the ammended ND order under attorneys involved may make these statements:

e. request for assistance from the public in obtaining evidence and information necessary to the State’s case or the defense’s case;

f. Warning of danger concerning the behavior of person involved, when there is reason to believe that there exists the likelihood of substantial harm to an individual or to the public interest;

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/06232023%20Revised%20Amended%20Nondissemination%20Order.pdf

 

[Chloegirl]

Media is creating any perceived momentum…both sides.

IMO if this case went to trial this spring, with the evidence we had 6 months ago. BK would likely be found guilty IMO.

The vacuum (the wait trial) is being filled with nonsense and hot air. Which amplifies things that we’ve been talking about since November 2022. Like the likelihood that there are dozens of unknown dna in a house that had a zillion parties.

The fact that there are only a few is worse for BK. Especially when you consider it’s his on a part of the likely murder weapon.

Well that's good to hear!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Media is creating any perceived momentum…both sides.

IMO if this case went to trial this spring, with the evidence we had 6 months ago. BK would likely be found guilty IMO.

The vacuum (the wait trial) is being filled with nonsense and hot air. Which amplifies things that we’ve been talking about since November 2022. Like the likelihood that there are dozens of unknown dna in a house that had a zillion parties.

The fact that there are only a few is worse for BK. Especially when you consider it’s his on a part of the likely murder weapon.

How is it nonsense and hot air that supposedly no victim DNA was found anywhere in his car, apartment, or office. Any juror dismissing that type of information is single-mindedly focused on guilt and not approaching the case objectively, IMO, as that's an important piece of (non)evidence.

MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO It would be sad if BK got off on standard defense distraction and embellishment.

Not going to happen IMO.

 

[Boxer]

How is it nonsense and hot air that supposedly no victim DNA was found anywhere in his car, apartment, or office. Any juror dismissing that type of information is single-mindedly focused on guilt and not approaching the case objectively, IMO, as that's an important piece of (non)evidence.

MOO.

MOO that there has to be evidence in the car is a defense deveoped criteria.

Developed just so it can be said that since there wasnt its lack is evidence of innocence.

Nothing to do with actual evidence, just a technique of argument.

 

[Nila Aella]

That there was no evidence found in his car, apartment, or office is something we didn't know before, as is the statement about 3 unidentified male DNA profiles at the scene.

IMO, mistaking an Elantra for a Sentra is a HUUUUUUGE mistake. Could it have been on different video? Sure, that might explain it. But if they were looking at the same video when they changed from Sentra to Elantra, that stinks to high heaven and will be a crucial, even infamous, mistake on the part of the investigators. IMO, it's naïve to think that kind of mistake won't have a significant impact on the case.

MOO

Something else new (to me) is the mention of the car capture on Ridge Road. I don't recall a mention of Ridge Road capture of a white car before? Anyone else recall Ridge Road being mentioned anywhere?

From the objection to States motion for protective order: Page 2

One area of the investigation had to do with white sedan seen on camera located at 1112 King Road first glimpsed by officers on November 18, 2022. By November 25, 2022, police believed the car to be white Elantra and asked law enforcement to be on the lookout for one. Precisely how the police came to believe the car was an Elantra is still unknown. A report from an analyst for the FBI dated March 21, 2023 shows the analyst heavily relying on video of car heading in the wrong direction and at the wrong time on Ridge Rd.

Looking up Ridge Road. Walenta forks left and right. Left is Ridge Road which loops all the way back up to Taylor (there was a white car capture on Taylor that did not make it into the PCA iirc 2:45-3:15). Right is Walenta. MOO

Recalling the PCA...the white car makes three passes at King then exits Walenta. Comes back at 4:04. So maybe it went this way and looped around to return? But then JWL says it was the wrong time and the wrong direction so???

Something that has always bothered me is that they don't have any captures of the elantra exiting the neighborhood (at least that we know of). I still sometimes think there are two different cars. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323%20Objection%20to%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

 

[SpiderFalcon]

I am looking at what she DIDN'T say in her objection:

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...ion to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

What she DIDN'T SAY was that there was NO OTHER BK DNA inside the crime scene, besides the sheath.

The rest of it seems to be distraction from BK.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Seems like she’s also taking some cues from social media, where the car model has been debated ad nauseam.

And setting up their SODDI, which I guess is their only option.

 

[Nila Aella]

I am looking at what she DIDN'T say in her objection:

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323 Objection to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

View attachment 430872



View attachment 430874View attachment 430873
What she DIDN'T SAY was that there was NO OTHER BK DNA inside the crime scene, besides the sheath.

The rest of it seems to be distraction from BK.

Excellent point!
The 1122 King Road search warrant is completely sealed.
MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

MOO that there has to be evidence in the car is a defense deveoped criteria.

Developed just so it can be said that since there wasnt its lack is evidence of innocence.

Nothing to do with actual evidence, just a technique of argument.

That's an interesting characterization. IMO, it's inaccurate, considering the defense hasn't said one word about the disassembling of the car until the document release yesterday. Rather, it was all these "experts" commenting in MSM. Just a couple of examples:

"She said investigators would be searching for any "biological evidence" that might have been left in "the nooks and crannies" of the car and checking if the vehicle had been tampered with in an attempt to cover up any crime. "And so I really do think that is what is going to be the most damaging, and the largest amount of ammunition that the prosecution has in this case," she added."

Why Bryan Kohberger's car could be key to case—former CIA...

Kohberger, 28, is accused of breaking into a home and fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students.

www.newsweek.com

""You can't possibly clean a car well enough these days to outsmart technology," Duncan Levin, a former assistant district attorney in the Manhattan DA's office and a criminal defense attorney at Levin & Associates, told The Independent in an exclusive."

Idaho Murder Update: Expert Says Suspect Can't 'Clean A Car Well Enough' To Remove DNA

Bryan Kohberger's car can bring in more DNA evidence that could link him to the quadruple killings, a lawyer said.

www.ibtimes.com

Not to mention countless social media sleuths on just about every platform about this case, including WS, believed there would absolutely be evidence in the car.

MOO

 

[SpiderFalcon]

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...ion to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

Perhaps the Prosecution has evidence of clean up, which might be used at trial. Or perhaps, the FBI hasn't completed the processing of the car. AT did ask in her Motion to Compel:

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050423 Motion to Compel Discovery.pdf

And the hearing for this is on June 27th. Hopefully, we'll learn more.

 

[Boxer]

That's an interesting characterization. IMO, it's inaccurate, considering the defense hasn't said one word about the disassembling of the car until the document release yesterday. Rather, it was all these "experts" commenting in MSM. Just a couple of examples:

"She said investigators would be searching for any "biological evidence" that might have been left in "the nooks and crannies" of the car and checking if the vehicle had been tampered with in an attempt to cover up any crime. "And so I really do think that is what is going to be the most damaging, and the largest amount of ammunition that the prosecution has in this case," she added."

Why Bryan Kohberger's car could be key to case—former CIA...

Kohberger, 28, is accused of breaking into a home and fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students.

www.newsweek.com

""You can't possibly clean a car well enough these days to outsmart technology," Duncan Levin, a former assistant district attorney in the Manhattan DA's office and a criminal defense attorney at Levin & Associates, told The Independent in an exclusive."

Idaho Murder Update: Expert Says Suspect Can't 'Clean A Car Well Enough' To Remove DNA

Bryan Kohberger's car can bring in more DNA evidence that could link him to the quadruple killings, a lawyer said.

www.ibtimes.com

Not to mention countless social media sleuths on just about every platform about this case, including WS, believed there would absolutely be evidence in the car.

MOO

I
MOO the idea that the "has" to be blood or other evidence in BKs car, apartment, or office due to the bloody nature of the crime has been asserted on this site for months.
I disagree.
IMO if the DNA found on the snap area of the military fighting knife sheath discovered partially beneath a victim was the only BK DNA found at the CS, it points to effective bio cleaning.

Those snaps are difficult to snap, especially at first, and the DNA under pressure just got into a place that a later cleaning did not reach.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Something else new (to me) is the mention of the car capture on Ridge Road. I don't recall a mention of Ridge Road capture of a white car before? Anyone else recall Ridge Road being mentioned anywhere?

From the objection to States motion for protective order: Page 2

One area of the investigation had to do with white sedan seen on camera located at 1112 King Road first glimpsed by officers on November 18, 2022. By November 25, 2022, police believed the car to be white Elantra and asked law enforcement to be on the lookout for one. Precisely how the police came to believe the car was an Elantra is still unknown. A report from an analyst for the FBI dated March 21, 2023 shows the analyst heavily relying on video of car heading in the wrong direction and at the wrong time on Ridge Rd.

Looking up Ridge Road. Walenta forks left and right. Left is Ridge Road which loops all the way back up to Taylor (there was a white car capture on Taylor that did not make it into the PCA iirc 2:45-3:15). Right is Walenta. MOO

Recalling the PCA...the white car makes three passes at King then exits Walenta. Comes back at 4:04. So maybe it went this way and looped around to return? But then JWL says it was the wrong time and the wrong direction so???

Something that has always bothered me is that they don't have any captures of the elantra exiting the neighborhood (at least that we know of). I still sometimes think there are two different cars. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323%20Objection%20to%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

Did we ever hear about the white car in the police body cam video when they responded to the drunk student call around 3 am-ish?

 

[TL4S]

Something else new (to me) is the mention of the car capture on Ridge Road. I don't recall a mention of Ridge Road capture of a white car before? Anyone else recall Ridge Road being mentioned anywhere?

From the objection to States motion for protective order: Page 2

One area of the investigation had to do with white sedan seen on camera located at 1112 King Road first glimpsed by officers on November 18, 2022. By November 25, 2022, police believed the car to be white Elantra and asked law enforcement to be on the lookout for one. Precisely how the police came to believe the car was an Elantra is still unknown. A report from an analyst for the FBI dated March 21, 2023 shows the analyst heavily relying on video of car heading in the wrong direction and at the wrong time on Ridge Rd.

Looking up Ridge Road. Walenta forks left and right. Left is Ridge Road which loops all the way back up to Taylor (there was a white car capture on Taylor that did not make it into the PCA iirc 2:45-3:15). Right is Walenta. MOO

Recalling the PCA...the white car makes three passes at King then exits Walenta. Comes back at 4:04. So maybe it went this way and looped around to return? But then JWL says it was the wrong time and the wrong direction so???

Something that has always bothered me is that they don't have any captures of the elantra exiting the neighborhood (at least that we know of). I still sometimes think there are two different cars. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323%20Objection%20to%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

So the Ridge Road detail is from an FBI report we are not privy to, correct? I'd be interested in what time and day that took place. I'm also not familiar with the Taylor sighting.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...ion to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

1. The knife sheath with his DNA on it, partially under Maddie, is a connection.
2. Have we verified the DMs he supposedly sent to one or more of the girls? That would be a connection.
3. If they have his car driving back and forth in front of 1122 King Rd on video, that would be a connection.
4. If his phone "kissed" the 1122 King Rd wi-fi, that would be a connection.

Just for starters.....

 

[TL4S]

By December l7, 2022, lab analysts were aware of two additional males’ DNA within the house where the deceased were located, and another unknown male DNA on glove found outside the residence on November 20, 2022.

The key word in this statement is "additional." To me, it seems to be saying that these male DNA samples were on top of BK's DNA being in the house. AT does go on to argue that maybe BK didn't put his DNA on the sheath, but LE did. IMO, that's not going to fly. The sheath would have been collected from the CS immediately and likely processed soon after. The DNA sample probably was in the lab before BK was even on LE's radar at all. JMO.

 

[Megnut]

Worth noting: LE doesn't close every loop. Time and money are limiting factors. Always. Few cases are beyond all doubt.

Every good defense attorney will exploit that line.

You might think there's a second white car involved, that there are two other perpetrators or accomplices and that BK might be innocent because his car is clean.

But we don't have the whole story.

LE might've run checks on 100 DNA profiles, all matching party goers, all of whom have confirmed alibis. That's not going to show up in a PCA. The two that were tested and yet unmatched, maybe they've been matched since and checked out. Maybe the location of the DNA left it low priority. Basement shower, for instance. Thermostat, for instance. DD bag, for instance. Things that were most assuredly touched, just not relevant to the crime.

The car. Perhaps LE misidentified it early. That's not a mistake or failure, that's just "early in the investigation". We all have bias. Maybe one investigator was "sure" it was a Sentra because of personal knowledge and only later was that assumption challenged. Or maybe LE didn't have all the footage yet and only had information on a Sentra, later ruled out.

His car. Yes, after such a bloody slaughter, and via the Law of Transference, you'd expect to find evidence in his car. But if we were to learn, say, he purchased a ROLL of plastic sheeting and an empty roll of it was found, if we learned he purchased VATS of bleach and hydrogen peroxide and had his car detailed 27 times and had replaced a front seat, a seatbelt, car mats, I don't think we'd be still be expecting DNA to be found.

I notice the motions say nothing about Murphy nor dog hair.

Maybe BK was extra smart about human DNA and managed to leave little of himself at 1122 and to bring little with him, from the roommates. Ah but he may well have attracted some dog hair on his way out --

These motions are interesting but they're bringing no house of cards down IMO.

There may still be questions, when the trial is done and gone. Like how did the killer leave if his car isn't captured at 4:20?

Another case the murderer is enjoying LWOP plus 56 years. CCTV captured him entering the house with the unsuspecting victim. CCTV captured him leaving alone. It didn't capture him leaving with her body. But we know he did. CCTV is not perfect, isn't always a consistent stream. BARD allows room for inference. Just because CCTV doesn't show something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I have every confidence that, when this goes to trial, the Prosecution will lay it out plain. Vehicle data, cellphone data, CCTV, Amazon purchases, Walmart purchases (there's ALWAYS Walmart purchases), receipts, DNA....

We may never know who that rogue DNA belonged to. I don't think it'll be a hurdle too high for a jury. It'll pale.

Jmo

 

[duckcat]

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323 Objection to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf
View attachment 430900

1. The knife sheath with his DNA on it, partially under Maddie, is a connection.
2. Have we verified the DMs he supposedly sent to one or more of the girls? That would be a connection.
3. If they have his car driving back and forth in front of 1122 King Rd on video, that would be a connection.
4. If his phone "kissed" the 1122 King Rd wi-fi, that would be a connection.

Just for starters.....

All but 1. seem to be unconfirmed at this point, including the footage of the car which AT seems to be asking for.

I took her line to mean that none of the digital forensics showed a link (Tinder, Meta, Google, Snap, iMessage, phone records, etc.) because seemingly the defense has access to all of that discovery. They do still have the tower connections, but that’s not airtight.

That coupled with the lack of the victims DNA on of his belongings does give one pause. I would at least expect evidence of some form of google stalking, like with maps or google searches.

The car footage in particular has always been a little strange, the wording was confusing in the PCA. The odd locations, passes, attempts to park, 3 pt turns. All very distracting. I do wonder if there were maybe two cars involved.

Very odd case all around. It almost seems like the police/prosecution are being intentionally mislead. I don’t think BK is innocent, but seems like there’s more to this.