4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

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  • #101
Let's run down what the alibi needs to address. Let's start with the alibi "I was asleep in my apartment, had nothing to do with any of this."

Obviously, no one is going to be a witness to this sleep event, unless Kohberger has cameras trained on himself, in his bedroom, every night. In which case, of course, he'd have produced these videos and he wouldn't be where he is.

So, what kind of alibi would work? The sleeping alibi (without cameras) is the most likely scenario, isn't it? Wouldn't most people be asleep at that time?

How then, does he account for his phone traveling (at road speeds) out of Pullman just before 3 am? So that has to become part of that alibi.

He loaned it to a friend? He's going to have to produce that friend or acquaintance.

It was stolen? and then returned to him? That makes no sense.

But the theft would still require evidence (the best kind would be the police report for this mysterious stealing of the phone for one evening). His phone then travels in a loop (picking up at Blaine, IIRC) through parts of Southern Idaho and then back to Pullman, turned on, and emitting signals until the car is parked outside Steptoe Apartments.

How did the phone travel? There's an Elantra involved and captured on various videos - BK coincidentally has one of those. Did the phone thief also steal his car? All for just one night? Evidence is needed.

Difficulties: The State likely has some evidence of that car's whereabouts by now, perhaps even GPS from the car itself (but certainly from the phone). The 2015 Elantras did not come equipped with it in all models, so we don't know. But the phone did.

If some of the views of the Elantra in possession of the State actually show a solo occupant (and the car's passing through the south end of Moscow and then through other little towns until back in Pullman), that isn't going to make the alibi easier.

TL:DR. Cellular, GPS and Video data must be taken into account with the alibi.

Oddly, BK's phone also travels to 1122 King the next morning (and then to an Albertson's in Clarkston, where Kohberger is caught on camera inside the store, in possession of the phone that accompanied him and the phone data tracking him through the same loop as just a few hours earlier; but with a stop near the Snake River). Wouldn't his alibi need to explain how his phone made those two trips to Moscow? (One in which the phone was turned off for a few hours and one in which it stayed on). I am guessing that the witness who saw the Elantra at the drive-through coffee place in Clarkston might even remember who was driving, as he stated that to the media before the gag order.


At any rate, it's the traveling nature of his phone on that day that he needs an alibi for, IMO.

"Cellular, GPS and Video data must be taken into account with the alibi."

Yes, I would assume so?

Imo, he needs an alibi for between about 2.50am and 4.50am on Nov 13th that can account for him being on the highway near Blaine at 4.50am. Something like below may have a low chance of being corroborated but is just an eg.that came into my head. Moo:
Left appartment at c.240am and drove around Pullman in vicinity of NE Nevada St. for 10 minutes. Then turned off phone/put it into air plane mode [I believe forensics will be able to say if battery ran out, so unless it did this will not be in the alibi]. Then drove back to appartment [ no corroborating video on NE Stadium Way but could say he went a back route way] and stayed there until approx 4.10am. Couldn't sleep so went out at that point taking phone but leaving it off, took back streets out of Pullman avoiding the most direct route out along NE Stadium Way [no footage at that time shows his car] and drove towards Moscow on Pullman Highway, turned onto Highway 95 then continued south. At around 4.50am decided to turn phone on, accounting for phone suddenly utilising cellular resources utilised by the nearby town of Blaine. Then drove back to Pullman (multiple pings and footage to corroborate once in Pullman).

He'd need to find a witness to him returning to his appartment after c.2.50 (video footage from back street, neighbour looking out window?) and then departing at 4.10am (Ditto). I think LE have already canvassed the Highway heading south where it goes through Moscow, so unlikely to find footage there but ofcourse would need to go through all of that.

This seems an unlikley alibi to me, perhaps it will be something else such as driving around east of Moscow between about 3 am and 4.30am before heading South towards Blaine? Would need some corroboration somehow. I think if he was visiting friends, for eg, there wouldn't be the need for the extension of time and infact if this was the case, he would have had that corroborated some time ago. I really thought that BK's defense would involve attacking LE forensics, phone and video evidence but it will probably involve that too?

One question I have: Is BK tied to producing an alibi defense now that he has requested the extension of time? After whatever time period is approved by the court for the alibi defense to be produced, can the defense then say, actually we are not going to produce an alibi defense after all? My understanding is that the defense is free to drop the alibi defense at any time. But if they do, are they free to pick it up again or not?
 
  • #102
So you're saying that Anne Taylor, even if she had found clearly exculpatory evidence (such as a video of Kohberger at a different place than alleged) would wait until she had gone over all the evidence before going to court?

We can agree to disagree. In all my years of working with LE, DA's and PD's, I've never seen that strategy. I guess it could happen, though (and I suppose, with Kohberger's cooperation and permission, because if I knew there was exculpatory evidence and I was in jail, I would definitely want the Court to be officially notified of it).

I think, instead, they are hoping to find something and will sift through everything. But so far, they have nothing or they'd be in Court. I'm watching a local case right now (where, btw, the defense attorney DID bring forward what he claims is plainly exculpatory evidence - but the State and the Judge disagreed and the defendant is still in jail).

In the case I'm mentioning, the defense attorney was able to get bail for his client (and then to have it reduced) by bringing before the court some troubling issues that, while not viewed as factually sufficient for the Judge to drop the case altogether, did make the Judge refer it to the jury with the defendant getting bail. Big win for the defendant.

The way Anne Taylor is handling this tells me that her client has not given her an alibi that she can show to the court. If she has to dig for it on her own (and he doesn't know what his alibi is), that's not a good look for this defendant. He's apparently going to have all factual matters brought into the trial (or do a plea bargain). It's never good if the actual defendant doesn't know what their alibi is. In such cases, the Defense will sometimes avoid trying to get details from the defendant (preferring that he remain silent, even with them).

JMO.
Defence attorneys don't have to rush to court to present exculpatory evidence. The prosecution and defence share case information during discovery, a complicated process both pre-trial and during trial. The defence attorney must carefully evaluate all evidence, even if it exonerates their client.

Exculpatory evidence helps the defence, but it doesn't prove innocence or drop the charges. It can just question the plaintiff's credibility. When assessing this evidence, judges must consider the entire case. The defence attorney may keep reviewing the facts to strengthen the case instead of introducing exculpatory evidence immediately.


Defence lawyers are also not waiting for favourable evidence. They are investigating, analysing, and planning defence. This takes time due to the evidence. Despite appearing to rush to court if they found something, the truth is more nuanced and convoluted.


Anne Taylor's request for an extension of time to comply with Idaho Code 19-519 should not be used to infer Kohberger's absence of an alibi or defence strategy. The case's intricacy, the amount of evidence, and the defence's thoroughness in reviewing and analysing it may need extra time.
 
  • #103
Cant say Not Guilty? Make the judge don it for him. MOO sounds like he is afraid to assert his innocence.
By staying mute I think the defense (and BK) chose to not acknowledge (through silence) the proceedings so far. That is essentially what was communicated by AT in Court on 9th June Imo. Asserting innocence by stating "not guilty" would mean acknowledging through words that the arraignment was a correct proceeding. It is odd because defense then gave notice that an alibi defense will be filed. So muteness at arraignment is largely meaningless, Imo, with little practical application. For all practical purposes the defense continues to comply with the court processes. Moo

spelling edit.
 
  • #104
By staying mute I think the defense (and BK) chose to not acknowledge (through silence) the proceedings so far. That is essentially what was communicated by AT in Court on 9th June Imo. Asserting innocence by stating "not guilty" would mean acknowledging through words that the arraignment was a correct proceeding. It is odd because defense then gave notice that an alibi defense will be filed. So muteness at arraignment is largely meaningless, Imo, with little practical application. For all practical purposes the defense continues to comply with the court processes. Moo

spelling edit.

I agree with much of this and I acknowledge it leaves the door open legally. Psychologically however, I do wonder if a murderer cannot acknowledge his deeds. I just hope, to a degree, someone who would do something like this, in their mind is askew and sort of torn apart not rational and they are somewhat damaged by it (I hate to say that but it's true). I suppose I wonder if that's part of the decision making as well. Although the families might really need a firm not guilty and I specifically mean his own. JMOO. Victims families wouldn't be satisfied with anything but guilty from him right now (assuming he is), again MOO.

I am also starting to believe he is going the way of Alford Plea. IDK.
 
  • #105
Defence attorneys don't have to rush to court to present exculpatory evidence. The prosecution and defence share case information during discovery, a complicated process both pre-trial and during trial. The defence attorney must carefully evaluate all evidence, even if it exonerates their client.

Exculpatory evidence helps the defence, but it doesn't prove innocence or drop the charges. It can just question the plaintiff's credibility. When assessing this evidence, judges must consider the entire case. The defence attorney may keep reviewing the facts to strengthen the case instead of introducing exculpatory evidence immediately.


Defence lawyers are also not waiting for favourable evidence. They are investigating, analysing, and planning defence. This takes time due to the evidence. Despite appearing to rush to court if they found something, the truth is more nuanced and convoluted.


Anne Taylor's request for an extension of time to comply with Idaho Code 19-519 should not be used to infer Kohberger's absence of an alibi or defence strategy. The case's intricacy, the amount of evidence, and the defence's thoroughness in reviewing and analysing it may need extra time.
Something I have thought about, in general and not just about this case, is the presence or discovery of exculpatory evidence after a suspect is charged.

How is that handled by the prosecution. If they find some evidence that someone else may be or is responsible or that shows the person charged might not be responsible...what happens. I don't think I have ever heard of a case where the prosecution dropped the charges, admitting they got it wrong. Have there been cases where the Prosecution drops charges and pursues another suspect after a GJ indictment?

Once charged, do they continue through the court for the court to decide right guy or wrong guy...all the way to a jury? Does the defense (if they find solid exculpatory evidence) ask for a motion to dismiss in the case? Then the judge decides?

In this case: Since there is the dna, car, phone evidence - and whatever else the Pros has discovered, I'm thinking even if they find exculpatory evidence it will still have to go to trial for a jury to decide. JMO
 
  • #106
Defence attorneys don't have to rush to court to present exculpatory evidence. The prosecution and defence share case information during discovery, a complicated process both pre-trial and during trial. The defence attorney must carefully evaluate all evidence, even if it exonerates their client.

Exculpatory evidence helps the defence, but it doesn't prove innocence or drop the charges. It can just question the plaintiff's credibility. When assessing this evidence, judges must consider the entire case. The defence attorney may keep reviewing the facts to strengthen the case instead of introducing exculpatory evidence immediately.


Defence lawyers are also not waiting for favourable evidence. They are investigating, analysing, and planning defence. This takes time due to the evidence. Despite appearing to rush to court if they found something, the truth is more nuanced and convoluted.


Anne Taylor's request for an extension of time to comply with Idaho Code 19-519 should not be used to infer Kohberger's absence of an alibi or defence strategy. The case's intricacy, the amount of evidence, and the defence's thoroughness in reviewing and analysing it may need extra time.

I know they don't have to. But IME, they usually do. Which was my point. No one rushes to court with a weak or propped up alibi, that's for sure.

But actual exonerating evidence, with witnesses? Yep, they usually go straight to the Judge.

IMO>
 
  • #107
I agree with much of this and I acknowledge it leaves the door open legally. Psychologically however, I do wonder if a murderer cannot acknowledge his deeds. I just hope, to a degree, someone who would do something like this, in their mind is askew and sort of torn apart not rational and they are somewhat damaged by it (I hate to say that but it's true). I suppose I wonder if that's part of the decision making as well. Although the families might really need a firm not guilty and I specifically mean his own. JMOO.
For sure, I agree with that; I think there are psychological implications attached to the [non verbal] plea. Especially as I'm not sure, practically speaking,what legal door it leaves open that is not already open. The defense is free to attack the process, through pre-trial motions, and try to have the case dismissed whether he pleads NG not, Imo. And up until the notice of an alibi defense I thought that was most likely to be D's primary strategy. But is does make sense that D would have multiple strategies on the go. Moo
 
  • #108
Something I have thought about, in general and not just about this case, is the presence or discovery of exculpatory evidence after a suspect is charged.

How is that handled by the prosecution. If they find some evidence that someone else may be or is responsible or that shows the person charged might not be responsible...what happens. I don't think I have ever heard of a case where the prosecution dropped the charges, admitting they got it wrong. Have there been cases where the Prosecution drops charges and pursues another suspect after a GJ indictment?

Once charged, do they continue through the court for the court to decide right guy or wrong guy...all the way to a jury? Does the defense (if they find solid exculpatory evidence) ask for a motion to dismiss in the case? Then the judge decides?

In this case: Since there is the dna, car, phone evidence - and whatever else the Pros has discovered, I'm thinking even if they find exculpatory evidence it will still have to go to trial for a jury to decide. JMO

I can't think of any (I'm on the same quest here). I think there's such a thing as an actual alibi (one that any reasonable person would accept) and a weaker alibi that needs to be adjudicated.

There are cases where charges have been dropped (Barry Morphew comes to mind). And there are occasionally cases dropped soon after filing due to mistaken identity. And poor people do go to trial (even though there's a mistaken identity issue) in jurisdictions where they don't get the kind of attention from a public defender that Kohberger is getting in Idaho in his potential DP case.

I agree that it's going to be nearly impossible to convince a Judge of the alibi on all those facts (DNA, car, phone). I do think it's possible that the Defense will *not* file an alibi defense; will *not* state a SODDI defense, etc., and simply go on to trial. It will become, in that case, the sort of trial where the Defense mainly tries to shake the jury's confidence in the State's case. Choosing a defense that won't really work is not a good idea (as the Court will hold them to it and they will likely have to withdraw it).

It'll be chain of custody issues; questioning of science; questioning of digital expertise, etc. But the total weight of the evidence is likely to be crushing. IMO.
 
  • #109
Something I have thought about, in general and not just about this case, is the presence or discovery of exculpatory evidence after a suspect is charged.

How is that handled by the prosecution. If they find some evidence that someone else may be or is responsible or that shows the person charged might not be responsible...what happens. I don't think I have ever heard of a case where the prosecution dropped the charges, admitting they got it wrong. Have there been cases where the Prosecution drops charges and pursues another suspect after a GJ indictment?

Once charged, do they continue through the court for the court to decide right guy or wrong guy...all the way to a jury? Does the defense (if they find solid exculpatory evidence) ask for a motion to dismiss in the case? Then the judge decides?

In this case: Since there is the dna, car, phone evidence - and whatever else the Pros has discovered, I'm thinking even if they find exculpatory evidence it will still have to go to trial for a jury to decide. JMO
Interesting points Imo. Are there categories of exculpatory (something that tends toward negating guilt) that are apart or in addition to what must be first recognised and then found by the prosecution, and then immediately disclosed to D in discovery? What I'm trying to get at perhaps, is potential exculpatory items/evidence that the prosecution might need assistance from the defense to recognise. For e.g material that is encompassed by the phrases "exculpatory on information and belief" and "...in regard to material and information which may be exculpatory as used or interpreted..."?

This latter phrase is used in State's Jan 23 Response to Request for Discovery (point 9).

 
  • #110
Something I have thought about, in general and not just about this case, is the presence or discovery of exculpatory evidence after a suspect is charged.

How is that handled by the prosecution. If they find some evidence that someone else may be or is responsible or that shows the person charged might not be responsible...what happens. I don't think I have ever heard of a case where the prosecution dropped the charges, admitting they got it wrong. Have there been cases where the Prosecution drops charges and pursues another suspect after a GJ indictment?

Once charged, do they continue through the court for the court to decide right guy or wrong guy...all the way to a jury? Does the defense (if they find solid exculpatory evidence) ask for a motion to dismiss in the case? Then the judge decides?

In this case: Since there is the dna, car, phone evidence - and whatever else the Pros has discovered, I'm thinking even if they find exculpatory evidence it will still have to go to trial for a jury to decide. JMO
According to Brady v. Maryland, the prosecution is required by law to inform the defence if it discovers any exonerating evidence.

If fresh evidence surfaces after a suspect has been charged, the case may not automatically proceed to a jury. The defence may submit a move to dismiss the case if they discover strong exculpatory evidence, and the court will then rule on it. In a similar vein, if substantial defence evidence is discovered, the prosecution may opt to abandon the charges.

Strong incriminating evidence in Kohberger's case such as DNA, car and phone evidence would probably still require a jury trial to get a verdict. It would depend on the volume and type of the supporting and contradictory evidence.
 
  • #111
According to Brady v. Maryland, the prosecution is required by law to inform the defence if it discovers any exonerating evidence.

If fresh evidence surfaces after a suspect has been charged, the case may not automatically proceed to a jury. The defence may submit a move to dismiss the case if they discover strong exculpatory evidence, and the court will then rule on it. In a similar vein, if substantial defence evidence is discovered, the prosecution may opt to abandon the charges.

Strong incriminating evidence in Kohberger's case such as DNA, car and phone evidence would probably still require a jury trial to get a verdict. It would depend on the volume and type of the supporting and contradictory evidence.
I think there might be a difference in meaning, legally speaking, between the terms exonerating and exculpatory? Moo
 
  • #112
I can't think of any (I'm on the same quest here). I think there's such a thing as an actual alibi (one that any reasonable person would accept) and a weaker alibi that needs to be adjudicated.

There are cases where charges have been dropped (Barry Morphew comes to mind). And there are occasionally cases dropped soon after filing due to mistaken identity. And poor people do go to trial (even though there's a mistaken identity issue) in jurisdictions where they don't get the kind of attention from a public defender that Kohberger is getting in Idaho in his potential DP case.

I agree that it's going to be nearly impossible to convince a Judge of the alibi on all those facts (DNA, car, phone). I do think it's possible that the Defense will *not* file an alibi defense; will *not* state a SODDI defense, etc., and simply go on to trial. It will become, in that case, the sort of trial where the Defense mainly tries to shake the jury's confidence in the State's case. Choosing a defense that won't really work is not a good idea (as the Court will hold them to it and they will likely have to withdraw it).

It'll be chain of custody issues; questioning of science; questioning of digital expertise, etc. But the total weight of the evidence is likely to be crushing. IMO.
@10ofRods, I think you might have answered a question I have with this:

"I do think it's possible that the Defense will *not* file an alibi defense; will *not* state a SODDI defense, etc., and simply go on to trial."

So even though D in this case have filed notice of intention to produce Alibi defense, D can still choose not to produce one and drop the idea at expiration of time limit to file? So D might decide the alibi defense they have is too weak for e.g. and not go with it. And a better strategy would be to do this prior to trial than say half way through?

I was also thinking that the D's main strategy would be attempting to dismantle the state's evidence and shake the confidence of the Jury as you put it. But ofcourse, we can't know how much the state has and what the shakeability factor is. The D may be trying all options I suppose. Moo
 
  • #113
According to Brady v. Maryland, the prosecution is required by law to inform the defence if it discovers any exonerating evidence.

If fresh evidence surfaces after a suspect has been charged, the case may not automatically proceed to a jury. The defence may submit a move to dismiss the case if they discover strong exculpatory evidence, and the court will then rule on it. In a similar vein, if substantial defence evidence is discovered, the prosecution may opt to abandon the charges.

Strong incriminating evidence in Kohberger's case such as DNA, car and phone evidence would probably still require a jury trial to get a verdict. It would depend on the volume and type of the supporting and contradictory evidence.
The law is confusing. In Idaho the defense can move to dismiss through the judge or only the prosecution thru application or judge can dismiss? Sorry unclear to me. Help. Thank you.

19-3504. DISMISSAL ON MOTION OF COURT OR PROSECUTING ATTORNEY. The court may, either of its own motion or upon the application of the prosecuting attorney, and in furtherance of justice, order an action or indictment to be dismissed. The reasons of the dismissal must be set forth in an order entered upon the minutes.

19-3505. NOLLE PROSEQUI ABOLISHED. The entry of a nolle prosequi is abolished, and neither the attorney-general nor the prosecuting attorney can discontinue or abandon a prosecution for a public offense except as provided in the last section.

Nolle prosequi (abbreviated "nol pros") is a legal term meaning "we shall no longer prosecute" or any variation with the same meaning.

 
  • #114
In theory, not specific to BK.

Is it possible for someone to cite an alibi and name or describe people(s) who have thus far not been identified or contacted by LE or who are not compliant with LE?

In such cases do these type of people get subpoenaed to answer to the court or have warrants put out for their arrest and debriefed by detectives? How does it work?

Of course. A person can have an alibi and most of the time, the name of the person providing the alibi would not be known to the Court. But in Idaho, the defendant who wants to present an alibi has to notify the court of who or what the evidence for the alibi might be.

What we're talking about is a legal filing, in Idaho. The "citing" part has to be done on the record - and it has to be done before trial starts. The alibi must be specific enough that the Judge views it as an alibi (a witness, a recording, a set of records).

Then, yes, the Court can subpoena those persons or records. Not an arrest warrant, a subpoena.

No criminal defendant gets to just point as someone else and say, for example, THEY did it! And then that person is arrested.

Instead, the alleged other perpetrator would be mentioned to the Judge as part of the alibi, Judge would then decide who gets a subpoena (and for what - there's already an indictment in this case, so the Judge would issue the subpoenas when it came time to trial - if and only if the Defense agreed to it). IOW, the Defense has to orchestrate these alibi-providing people.

If, for example, there's a witness who saw someone else enter the 1122 Residence around 4 am, and exit around 4:30 (and then speed away in a white Elantra - that would be really helpful, if so), then the jury gets to hear from that witness and decide whether that new witness is credible (considering that they didn't come forward right away, weren't a roommate in the house, etc). Does the Defense want to hang their case on such a witness?? Doubtful. Such a witness still puts BK at the scene of the crime. If this eyewitness had never seen Kohberger before, how are they so sure it was NOT him who went into the house? What's the description of this other person? When did this eyewitness call in this tip, if ever?

What if there were, say, three witnesses who all saw someone pull Kohberger from his car (as he sat benignly outside 1122 King Road), and then take something looking like a knife from his car, leaving him near the car or in it, while the stranger went into the house? Well, who are these three witnesses? Why didn't they come forward? Do they know each other? What were they doing standing around at 1122 King in the middle of the road? Etc. Everything about those eyewitnesses would be thoroughly explored during cross-examination. IOW, just piling up new eyewitnesses (not mentioned heretofore by LE/FBI) could open a real can of worms (esp. since every murder case has people who want to insert themselves into the case, when they ought not to).

Jury still gets to decide if these witnesses are credible - a judge is very unlikely to attempt to determine the reliability of alleged eyewitnesses.

IMO.
 
  • #115
I think there might be a difference in meaning, legally speaking, between the terms exonerating and exculpatory? Moo
You're right. These terms are sometimes used interchangeably, although they have different legal meanings.

"Exonerating" evidence exonerates a defendant. It proves innocence. It proves a defendant did not commit a crime. A strong alibi supported by video proof showing the defendant was elsewhere when the crime was committed is one example.

"Exculpatory" evidence is any proof that can prove a defendant's innocence, reduce their culpability, or reduce the crime's punishment. Even if the evidence doesn't prove the defendant's innocence, it can cast doubt on their guilt. Witness testimony disparities might cast doubt on the prosecution's account of the crime.

All exonerating evidence is also exculpatory, but not all exculpatory evidence is exonerating. While the former must unambiguously demonstrate the defendant's innocence, the latter just needs to raise a reasonable question about the defendant's guilt or lessen their accountability.
 
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  • #116
You're right. These terms are sometimes used interchangeably, although they have different legal meanings.

"Exonerating" evidence exonerates a defendant. It proves innocence. It proves a defendant did not commit a crime. A strong alibi supported by video proof showing the defendant was elsewhere when the crime was committed is one example.

"Exculpatory" evidence is any proof that can prove a defendant's innocence, reduce their culpability, or reduce the crime's punishment. Even if the evidence doesn't prove the defendant's innocence, it can cast doubt on their guilt. Witness testimony disparities might cast doubt on the prosecution's account of the crime.

All exculpatory evidence is also exonerating, not all exonerating evidence is exculpatory. While the former must unambiguously demonstrate the defendant's innocence, the latter just needs to raise a reasonable question about the defendant's guilt or lessen their accountability.
Thank you for your clear response,that really clears a few things up for me. Makes sense, but re last paragraph is perhaps inadvertently back to front? Isn't all exonerating evidence exculpatory but not all exculpatory evidence is exonerating? Just don't want to be confused again after reading paras 1 and 2!
 
  • #117
Thank you for your clear response,that really clears a few things up for me. Makes sense, but re last paragraph is perhaps inadvertently back to front? Isn't all exonerating evidence exculpatory but not all exculpatory evidence is exonerating? Just don't want to be confused again after reading paras 1 and 2!
Yes, your understanding is correct. All exonerating evidence is indeed exculpatory, but not all exculpatory evidence is necessarily exonerating, My bad.
 
  • #118
The law is confusing. In Idaho the defense can move to dismiss through the judge or only the prosecution thru application or judge can dismiss? Sorry unclear to me. Help. Thank you.

19-3504. DISMISSAL ON MOTION OF COURT OR PROSECUTING ATTORNEY. The court may, either of its own motion or upon the application of the prosecuting attorney, and in furtherance of justice, order an action or indictment to be dismissed. The reasons of the dismissal must be set forth in an order entered upon the minutes.

19-3505. NOLLE PROSEQUI ABOLISHED. The entry of a nolle prosequi is abolished, and neither the attorney-general nor the prosecuting attorney can discontinue or abandon a prosecution for a public offense except as provided in the last section.

Nolle prosequi (abbreviated "nol pros") is a legal term meaning "we shall no longer prosecute" or any variation with the same meaning.

These laws apply to the court and prosecutor, but they don't specify whether the defence can file a motion to dismiss a case. The defence might bring a motion to dismiss in the US for lack of evidence or inappropriate procedure. However, motion to dismiss is typically granted at the discretion of the judge. I couldn't find an Idaho statute regarding defence initiated dismissals, so I think a lawyer knowledgeable with Idaho law may be ideal.
 
  • #119
AFAIK, whatever listing you’re looking at includes at least some long outdated info according to the property management company:
“The King Road home’s six bedrooms had at one time been rented as separate apartments, according to McClanahan, with the property management firm.

Primarily for the last 12 years, it has been rented as one unit as a single-family home,” McClanahan said.
The house on King Road: A look at the Moscow home where four U of I students were killed - East Idaho News

The rent almost certainly didn’t include utilities, MOO here, and I really doubt a rental that’s locally known as a “rode hard & put away wet” type would have a smart thermostat, but who knows? If it does, it will be very interesting to learn what role it might have played in the investigation!

MOO, as always.

ETA: my hunch is that ad might date back to the time when the renovations were completed: they wanted to get some rental income going until the next standard rental term. Just a guess, tho, based on how things generally work here.
The listing would have to be from Fall 2019 because it specifically mentions the completion of the summer of 2019 rennovation and it says the house can be leased by the semester or through May 31, 2020. The "by the semester" makes me think this listing was for more than one semester so Fall 2019 and Spring 2020. The rent did include utilities - the listing specifies "All utilities and internet included in the rent." It is also clear that this is a listing to attract students to rent this house. "Don’t miss out! Available for move-in Now. Flexible lease terms available - lease by the semester or lease until May 31, 2020." So at least at that time, that is how it was. There were college men living in it prior to the victims in this case. This listing is on Zumper - not sure if I am allowed to link it. I believe you can see the thermostat in photo 2 to the right of the refrigerator - it is small and does not appear to have any buttons on it. That's two reasons I think it is a smart thermostat. The larger flat white thing behind it is a backing plate to hide the hole in the wall that may be bigger than new thermostats.

Where I live, it is normal for off-campus student housing to be "all bills paid" and rented by the room or one person can rent the whole house and the primary on the lease sublets to others by the room to have some control of who lives there. I would expect it would be the same in most places in the USA.

Nowadays landlords generally prefer a smart thermostat when they are paying for utilities because they can save a lot of money and you can buy them for as little as $49. The temperature is set according to state regulations. If this property were owned by a private individual (maybe the son or daughter of whoever originally owned the home), I would not expect a smart thermostat but a lockbox over the thermostat (old school way to do this), but with it owned and managed by a company with multiple properties - they are going to do what is most convenient for them, IMO. They were already providing internet, so why not use the internet they were paying for to their advantage as a rental company?
 
  • #120
Something I have thought about, in general and not just about this case, is the presence or discovery of exculpatory evidence after a suspect is charged.

How is that handled by the prosecution. If they find some evidence that someone else may be or is responsible or that shows the person charged might not be responsible...what happens. I don't think I have ever heard of a case where the prosecution dropped the charges, admitting they got it wrong. Have there been cases where the Prosecution drops charges and pursues another suspect after a GJ indictment?

Once charged, do they continue through the court for the court to decide right guy or wrong guy...all the way to a jury? Does the defense (if they find solid exculpatory evidence) ask for a motion to dismiss in the case? Then the judge decides?

In this case: Since there is the dna, car, phone evidence - and whatever else the Pros has discovered, I'm thinking even if they find exculpatory evidence it will still have to go to trial for a jury to decide. JMO

Prosecutors do drop charges, all the time - just not in high profile cases like this one, where they've been very careful. At this point, either the court or the prosecutor could dismiss charges (can't be dropped, already filed). In my county, domestic violence has the biggest category of withdrawn (dropped) charges.

In one case ( a murder case ) somewhat local to me, the first person charged was a sheriff's deputy who had had an affair with a woman who later married a prominent local attorney. Both the woman and the attorney were found brutally bludgeoned to death. Deputy was arrested. He was found to have an alibi for the time of the murder, charges were dropped.

Then, two years later, a business associate of the dead attorney was arrested, charges were filed. DA became convinced that the two men had some shady business dealings and that the business partner decided to kill the lawyer as revenge. But, there was DNA evidence (the lawyer's wife was raped). DNA analysis was just getting started (1980 murders). I believe the deputy was exonerated by the same DNA evidence, in 1980, because both the DA and the Court knew what it meant that there was no match.

Eventually, the business partner provides a sample to the State and it does not match, either.

So they dismissed the charges against him and the local rumor mill started all over again, eventually the story fell from the news and was an unsolved murder.

Then, not too long ago, the DNA sample led to the arrest of Joseph De Angelo, who was convicted of the lawyer and his wife's murder, along with several other murders. EARONS (GSK) was the actual rapist and killer). So two people were suspects, two people were exonerated. By DNA.

This is the sample that the Sacramento area LE wanted to match when they followed JJDeAngelo to Hobby Lobby and swabbed the door handle of his vehicle.

IMO. So it has happened. I can't think of another case off the top of my head, but a quick google shows that it does happen, just not usually in murder trials.
 
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