4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[TL4S]

In a simple world … yes of course!

However, when the “law” is involved, the world is not so simple anymore …


We also don’t know who is calling the shots on this?? BK or AT??

Is it BK himself, that appears to to be “stalling”, OR is it actually a part of his “Defence Strategy“ to withhold the information for now? Is AT orchestrating this strategy for some reason, (reasons unbeknown to us) and actually calling the shots on this issue ???

JMO

Personally, I do think it's a strategy to do with the GJ indictment. And I still don't know if by the time of the indictment, the defense had yet interviewed BF, who they claimed had exculpatory evidence.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

His not revealing a legitimate alibi (if he has one), and not revealing it, and waiting until the defense reviews all of the discovery, is highly suspicious to me. If I was accused of a crime and I knew I had a solid alibi, it would be the first thing I would tell the detective-- wouldn't you?

I agree it's highly suspicious, @ilovewings, or at least has my hinky meter going.

I don't know what to make of it except, he's doing it maybe "because he can" ?

If the menu of available options for giving (or not giving?) an alibi includes this possibility, perhaps they (defense team) think why not see what they (prosecution) has, and then we'll craft the best alibi that passes the sniff test?

'Quelle Bizarre', IMO, but perhaps not unprecedented ?

MOO

 

[Sundog]

Thank you @jepop. I appreciate your assist. I found similar descriptions as well, but they just didn't answer my core question of what the benefit truly is. I mean, surely, if there were any "irregular proceedings" AT could and would attack them as long as he didn't please guilty. It just doesn't make sense to me. If it gives such a big advantage, why doesn't everyone do it? Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if "standing silent" becomes the trendy thing to do now.

For those of us not familiar with the "standing silent" option in response to a criminal charge it seemed unusual, but the Judge in this case made it clear that it is not something mysterious and he was frustrated that the media made such a big fuss about it when it is fully acceptable and within the confines of the law.

I don't know what percentage of criminal cases involve defendants who "stand silent" and if they are mostly related to pleas following grand jury indictments, but it would be interesting to find out. Also, are there certain kinds of charge that lead to this plea option more than other kinds of charges, etc.

 

[maskedwoman]

<snipped for focus>

Later, when Jay Logsdon, one of BK’s attorneys, had his own chance to reply, he told 3J that standing silent also preserved the defendant’s right to challenge aspects of the grand jury indictment, and the judge thanked him for the information. (3J didn’t know? I’m not sure; he might have been thanking him for reminding himself of something he did know but failed to mention. He’s an odd duck at times. I didn’t hear it myself but it was widely tweeted that 3J couldn’t pronounce sequestration and had to be helped with the word—he must have had food poisoning again!)

Thank you @Orange Tabby, that more specific application does help me.

 

[jepop]

Thank you @jepop. I appreciate your assist. I found similar descriptions as well, but they just didn't answer my core question of what the benefit truly is. I mean, surely, if there were any "irregular proceedings" AT could and would attack them as long as he didn't please guilty. It just doesn't make sense to me. If it gives such a big advantage, why doesn't everyone do it? Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if "standing silent" becomes the trendy thing to do now.

I do agree with you re the practical implications. Nonetheless private defence law firms, in several states at the very least, explicitly use that blanket phrase when explaining the options for a defendant at arraignment. I think it likely that the benefit is primarily for the client/defendant. I had the thought that perhaps experience/history and statitics have shown that for a small percentage of clients who refuse to speak or do not want to say the words "not guilty" for whatever reason (one poster here talked about 'emotional' reasons threads ago which I found very interesting) there is made explicit from the get go an option that is within their rights to exercise. The blanket explanation/definition may coincide with some of these defendants' inclinitions - for e.g defendants who disagree with the process/the arrest and refuse to engage verbally when given a choice (beyond yes and no answers) with the Court that has arraigned them/made their arrest possible. Moo

 

[jepop]

I think you are correct though, about it being impossible in a one / two minute time frame …. (From the Mobil Servo area) ….
IMO

Google maps tells me two minutes by car from the intersection of Styner and Main Street/Higway 95 - which is the intersection referenced in the PCA - the route that would have been followed is west on Indian Hills at 700 Block,then necessarily north on Indian Hills then a left at STyner to turn west onto Styner. I'm hoping someone has the ability to post a google map up. From the intersection of Styner and Main St/Highway 95 a vehicle can cross directly onto Lauder ST and proceed to King Road neighbourhood. I had the time of journey set for 2pm to see what it would take at semi-rush hour. It is probably less at 3.28am. Moo

 

[TL4S]

This is very basic, but google directions show 4 min (no traffic) from 700 Indian Hills, to Styner/Hwy 95, to 1122 King Rd. 3:26, 3:28, 3:29. It's right on, imo (exactly on if you count 3:26 and 3:29 as full minutes).

 

[schooling]

Well, maybe he knows, but then again...

I was home last Nov. 13th (as I am almost every night), but if I had been out for a drive in the early morning hours (as BK often was), I might not know exactly where I was between 4 and 4:20 a.m.

Pullman is relatively small. Unless he was somewhere truly unremarkable…giving his lawyers a list of places where he may have been or regularly went doesn’t seem like a stretch.

Then his lawyers could canvas those areas for the times before and after to see if there was any recorded evidence of his presence there that LE may have missed.

“I don’t know” and not having any supporting evidence of not being home is not going to go down well with jurors. At that point you probably shouldn’t present any defense at all.

 

[TL4S]

Remember how LE put out the map area of interest requesting surveillance footage from 11/13?

Idaho college murders: Moscow police seek surveillance footage from ‘two areas of interest’

The areas include: West Taylor Ave (north boundary), West Palouse River Dr (south boundary), Highway 95 south to the 2700 block of Highway 95 S (east boundary) and Arboretum & Botanical Garden (west boundary).

I'm starting to wonder if this is where BK stayed during his 25 minutes time of passing King Rd 3 times leaving via Walenta Dr. Of course that means dismissing the White Ave capture. It's also likely LE thought this was the area of egress after the murders. IDK.

 

[schooling]

For those of us not familiar with the "standing silent" option in response to a criminal charge it seemed unusual, but the Judge in this case made it clear that it is not something mysterious and he was frustrated that the media made such a big fuss about it when it is fully acceptable and within the confines of the law.

I don't know what percentage of criminal cases involve defendants who "stand silent" and if they are mostly related to pleas following grand jury indictments, but it would be interesting to find out. Also, are there certain kinds of charge that lead to this plea option more than other kinds of charges, etc.

The media is doing a disservice by implying that this is a move by BK to reserve the right to plead for mercy. But on the complete opposite side of the spectrum you have the “BK is making a 4D chess move! The grand reveal is coming!” crowd.

The truth as always, is likely a lot simpler and more boring.

 

[jepop]

Remember how LE put out the map area of interest requesting surveillance footage from 11/13?

Idaho college murders: Moscow police seek surveillance footage from ‘two areas of interest’

The areas include: West Taylor Ave (north boundary), West Palouse River Dr (south boundary), Highway 95 south to the 2700 block of Highway 95 S (east boundary) and Arboretum & Botanical Garden (west boundary).

I'm starting to wonder if this is where BK stayed during his 25 minutes time of passing King Rd 3 times leaving via Walenta Dr. Of course that means dismissing the White Ave capture. It's also likely LE thought this was the area of egress after the murders. IDK.

Good point, this might define the "King Road Neighbourhood" that is referenced in the PCA.Moo

 

[Nila Aella]

@Twistinginthewind Great Point about last “proof of life“ for K and M …

I have also wondered about the missing hour of 3am - 4am ….especially if BK left Pullman at approx 02:47am

It will be interesting to see what footage they do have on his car from 03:00am, (at the trial), especially when the PCA makes mention they don’t have his phone connecting to King Road during those hours of 03:00am - 05:00am …

Agree! re: 3-4AM details.
I push that further and wonder about the details during the time period between 1:56 and 4:00 AM on King Road.
MOO

His not revealing a legitimate alibi (if he has one), and not revealing it, and waiting until the defense reviews all of the discovery, is highly suspicious to me. If I was accused of a crime and I knew I had a solid alibi, it would be the first thing I would tell the detective-- wouldn't you?

TBF we have no idea what he said at the time of his arrest since it has not been released.
AFAICT he was not asked about his whereabouts prior to his arrest, and we have no information of what was said during/after his arrest, prior to asserting his rights.
MOO

Google maps tells me two minutes by car from the intersection of Styner and Main Street/Higway 95 - which is the intersection referenced in the PCA - the route that would have been followed is west on Indian Hills at 700 Block,then necessarily north on Indian Hills then a left at STyner to turn west onto Styner. I'm hoping someone has the ability to post a google map up. From the intersection of Styner and Main St/Highway 95 a vehicle can cross directly onto Lauder ST and proceed to King Road neighbourhood. I had the time of journey set for 2pm to see what it would take at semi-rush hour. It is probably less at 3.28am. Moo

I have checked at different times, the least amount of time I have hit is 2 minutes (the most is 4-6 minutes). I used different maps as well. There are two ways to go, one takes longer.
MOO
ETchange all to different times

 

[wary]

The PCA says Westbound on Styner Avenue at 95. 3:28
First Pass at King Road 3:29.

View attachment 428504

It does say "at approximately 3:28" so maybe there is some wiggle room?

MOO

Unless I’m misunderstanding something, each camera might be set to a slightly different time, so definitely some wiggle room.

 

[Nila Aella]

Been looking for that map @SLouTh : no luck yet but found this posted by @Cindizzi back in January.

still have a couple more places to look.....

MOO

 

[TL4S]

Here's another anomaly to me. At 2:44, the white sedan was seen by WSU cameras heading north on Nevada St and Stadium Dr. Nine minutes later, at 2:53, it's heading south on Nevada near the same area. This is not a long street. What was he doing for nine minutes?

 

[Nila Aella]

This is the one I was recalling @SLouTh

by @SharonNeedles : Three maps.

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 60

It's common for PhD students to Uber or deliver food for extra income. Quite a few in daughter’s PhD program worked outside jobs. Her stipend was in the mid- to upper 30s (major metro on East coast, but not an ivy). Housing was not included. She made extra $ working in a comms lab, but it...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Chloegirl]

Been looking for that map @SLouTh : no luck yet but found this posted by @Cindizzi back in January.

still have a couple more places to look.....

MOO

This also paints the picture at least as we knew it at the time. Good suff!

 

[Chloegirl]

This is the one I was recalling @SLouTh

by @SharonNeedles : Three maps.

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 60

It's common for PhD students to Uber or deliver food for extra income. Quite a few in daughter’s PhD program worked outside jobs. Her stipend was in the mid- to upper 30s (major metro on East coast, but not an ivy). Housing was not included. She made extra $ working in a comms lab, but it...

www.websleuths.com

I believe this is the map investigators referred to as circuitous route. Definitely not somebody going to the store and coming home. When you look at this map and see The Grove that is newer student housing for the most part. In front of it and not shown on that map really is the new state-of-the-art Police Station. Did he have no idea he was that close?

Also if you drive to Moscow for the shopping you drive straight over and hit WinCo a 24-hour grocery store. You don't drive to Safeway which is not open. You don't drive to the end of town where Safeway is there's nothing there but sleeping residents. You also don't drive home part way to Lewiston and then hang a right to Pullman. It is nonsensical.

 

[Nila Aella]

Here's another anomaly to me. At 2:44, the white sedan was seen by WSU cameras heading north on Nevada St and Stadium Dr. Nine minutes later, at 2:53, it's heading south on Nevada near the same area. This is not a long street. What was he doing for nine minutes?

Back when this came up before: there was mention of a car accident near his apartment. ? if he had to detour around it? I really haven't looked at a map near his apartment to see where this occured and if it relates to the route he took.....

Just hours before the Idaho murders, another grisly scene unfolded outside Bryan Kohberger's window

It's unclear whether the crash had anything to do with the killings or was a coincidence of two bloody crime scenes not far from each other.

www.insider.com

 

[Chloegirl]

Back when this came up before: there was mention of a car accident near his apartment. ? if he had to detour around it? I really haven't looked at a map near his apartment to see where this occured and if it relates to the route he took.....

Just hours before the Idaho murders, another grisly scene unfolded outside Bryan Kohberger's window

It's unclear whether the crash had anything to do with the killings or was a coincidence of two bloody crime scenes not far from each other.

www.insider.com

Good memory. I wondered if he was involved like it was a hit and run or if he witnessed it I'm not sure why my brain went there. Was it traumatic something he saw triggering I know ridiculous?!