4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[Nila Aella]

I may be misinterpreting your question, @Nila Aella, apologies if so.

But if by "this" in "Do they have to do this with every piece of evidence...?"

You mean does the defense have to file a Stipulation (and Temporary Order To Seal the Stipulation in this case) for each and every piece of evidence they want to forensically evaluate:

I would think not, it seems like there are way too many pieces of evidence they might want to test/evaluate to do a stipulation/order for each and every one, IMO, but IANAL.

I would think if there are more than one, each one would be umbrella-like, and cover an entire category of evidence, e.g., all the blood evidence collected at the scene.

JMO

Not so much the stipulation to seal.
The Order to remove evidentiary items for forensic testing.
I do see now that it is "items" plural, I thought at first it was one item. So maybe it is a list of items.
I wondered if the Defense needs to have an Order from the Judge every time they remove evidentiary items to test them?

Edit: removed an attachment that was not related to my post

 

[Nila Aella]

Total guess here… but surely the defence will “test” the information in the PCA along with other CCTV images of the car and the phone info??

Wouldn’t they get some “expert” do a drive with a phone in a similar car at a similar time of night to make sure it adds up?? And request the phone tower information for that same period to compare? Especially when it doesn’t seem to add up on paper???

And if he does have an alibi that does put him out driving that night, wouldn’t they also “test“ that in a similar manner???

JMO

Edit to add: Do we know for 100% certainty if his car had Sat Nav or not?? That will either confirm the PCA and totally bust any alibi given or else it will provide him with an alibi providing he was out driving around that night.

I am not sure the Police would include that info in a PCA, I think they may save that for trial …..IMO

I would think the Defense will definitely do that.
IMO the Defense and Prosecution have much more information than we have, so I think they will know where/if there are any inconsistencies to focus on. MOO

There was a discussion about gps and the elantra. I looked it up back then and it was and add on feature, not standard.
The consensus was he did not have the upgrade.

This post by @schooling describes what information can be obtained though.

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

Maybe it relates to specific details of K suspecting she was being stalked? By whom and how she felt that was taking place. Also remembering that one of the males, JD I believe was escorting M & K home that evening (via the Grub Hut and then they got in a share car) in order to keep them...

www.websleuths.com

edit: changed describes what information from the car can be obtained to what information can be obtained.

 

[schooling]

Total guess here… but surely the defence will “test” the information in the PCA along with other CCTV images of the car and the phone info??

Wouldn’t they get some “expert” do a drive with a phone in a similar car at a similar time of night to make sure it adds up?? And request the phone tower information for that same period to compare? Especially when it doesn’t seem to add up on paper???

And if he does have an alibi that does put him out driving that night, wouldn’t they also “test“ that in a similar manner???

JMO

Edit to add: Do we know for 100% certainty if his car had Sat Nav or not?? That will either confirm the PCA and totally bust any alibi given or else it will provide him with an alibi providing he was out driving around that night.

I am not sure the Police would include that info in a PCA, I think they may save that for trial …..IMO

His car 100% did not have SAT nav built into it. The pictures from the stops in Indiana make that pretty clear. It was an upgrade in that years’ Elantra and the SAT Nav unit looks completely different than the one he had equipped.

He may have had a 3rd party device like a Garmin. But if he did it’s not in any of the warrants or inventories.

I think it’s likely he’s traveled those roads billion times and didn’t need it or he utilized navigation on his cellphone while it was in airplane mode.

 

[SLouTh]

A lot has been spoken about the delay in calling 911, roughly 8 hours after the incident occurred…. However what also shocks me is that the Officer In Charge didn’t attend the crime scene for another 4 hours! (4:00pm)

I find that quite astounding for such a heinous crime in a relatively small town ….

Who was in command for those initial four hours? And what occurred in those first 4 hours? Obviously someone had called the Forensics Team and they were on-site, preparing to enter and process the crime scene 4 hours later …..(as per the PCA)

How secure was the crime scene in those first 4 hours after the 911 call???
It seems an awful long time to wait…..

I wonder if the defence will ask these questions??

JMO

 

[Sundog]

If the Defense does challenge the GJ indictment, do the motions filed go before the GJ judge or 3J?

I thought that the prosecution presides over the GJ, not a judge. If that is the case, then not sure how the defense would proceed to challenge the indictment.

 

[schooling]

A lot has been spoken about the delay in calling 911, roughly 8 hours after the incident occurred…. However what also shocks me is that the Officer In Charge didn’t attend the crime scene for another 4 hours! (4:00pm)

I find that quite astounding for such a heinous crime in a relatively small town ….

Who was in command for those initial four hours? And what occurred in those first 4 hours? Obviously someone had called the Forensics Team and they were on-site, preparing to enter and process the crime scene 4 hours later …..(as per the PCA)

How secure was the crime scene in those first 4 hours after the 911 call???
It seems an awful long time to wait…..

I wonder if the defence will ask these questions??

JMO

This has always made less sense to me than the delay in the roommates calls.

My uncle was a major case unit detective for a major cities robbery and homicide division and would have to drop whatever family thing he was doing while ‘off duty’ on more than one occasion.

I know they are obviously more stretched for resources in Moscow, and that my experience (with my uncle) is not representative of all agencies/depts. policies and procedures… but how many crimes rise to the level of this one…in a college town no less….

 

[SLouTh]

His car 100% did not have SAT nav built into it. The pictures from the stops in Indiana make that pretty clear. It was an upgrade in that years’ Elantra and the SAT Nav unit looks completely different than the one he had equipped.

He may have had a 3rd party device like a Garmin. But if he did it’s not in any of the warrants or inventories.

I think it’s likely he’s traveled those roads billion times and didn’t need it or he utilized navigation on his cellphone while it was in airplane mode.

That is so unfortunate …. As so much can be learned from the actual car these days … the technology is quite amazing!

Thanks for the info re the google maps, on the phone, in your earlier post….. that is also very interesting …. And it will be interesting to learn what they have gleaned from that information at the trial …

 

[Odeto BJ]

Whoops: Stepped on Schooling No 323 above.

If you look at SE Nevada St on Google Street: It can only be driven about 75 yards North of NE Stadium; the only route at that point is a left onto NE Washington. Other than entrances to some parking lots and building service areas, a car can then only proceed on SE Idaho or SE Spokane...All of those routes have frequent crosswalks and at least a couple of full width speed bumps. From there to BK's apartment is a circuitous path with more of the same.
So the round trip in 9 minutes or less seems impossible even at 2:45 AM, I would concur that he paused somewhere or simply wandered around. Lacking any other indication, one might think that the specific time that was chosen to head for Moscow was prompted by something incoming on his phone. Pure conjecture at this time but?
Which leads to 2-questions:
How, or why, did he get to SE Nevada heading north and crossing NE Stadium? SE Nevada only runs some 120 yards South of NE Stadium....and
What was he doing for the 9-minute interval between Nevada northbound and Nevada southbound?

 

[Nila Aella]

I thought that the prosecution presides over the GJ, not a judge. If that is the case, then not sure how the defense would proceed to challenge the indictment.

Thankyou! I looked it up and it does say no judge in the room during a grand jury.

There is a judge that is there to seat the jury in the beginning per idaho.

(c) Impaneling a Grand Jury. A district judge must impanel a grand jury of 16 jurors. The district judge must preside over the impaneling of the grand jury and in doing so has the power and duty to:

then there is a presiding juror:

(d) Grand Jury Presiding Juror; Oath; Duties. After the grand jury is impaneled, the court must select one of the jurors as the presiding juror of the grand jury and administer an oath in the form of the oath in Rule 6(c)(3), only it will refer to the person as the presiding juror of the grand jury. The presiding juror has the following powers and duties:

(1) preside over the grand jury until it is adjourned and discharged;

Plus a bunch more at the link.

Rule 6. Formation of the Grand Jury | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

MOO

 

[Sundog]

Thankyou! I looked it up and it does say no judge in the room during a grand jury.

There is a judge that is there to seat the jury in the beginning per idaho.

(c) Impaneling a Grand Jury. A district judge must impanel a grand jury of 16 jurors. The district judge must preside over the impaneling of the grand jury and in doing so has the power and duty to:

then there is a presiding juror:

(d) Grand Jury Presiding Juror; Oath; Duties. After the grand jury is impaneled, the court must select one of the jurors as the presiding juror of the grand jury and administer an oath in the form of the oath in Rule 6(c)(3), only it will refer to the person as the presiding juror of the grand jury. The presiding juror has the following powers and duties:

(1) preside over the grand jury until it is adjourned and discharged;

Plus a bunch more at the link.

Rule 6. Formation of the Grand Jury | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

MOO

In addition to the above info, below is information on grounds for motion to dismiss a grand jury indictment by the defense.

Also, the motion to dismiss indictment is granted by the district court judge, so that would be Judge John C. Judge who is the district court judge of the of the 2nd district (Idaho) which includes Latah County, so he would rule on the defense's motion to dismiss, after hearing from both the defense and prosecution on the matter.

edited to clarify

Idaho Criminal Rule 6.6. Grounds for Motion to Dismiss Indictment

A motion to dismiss the indictment may be granted by the district court on any of the following grounds:

• a valid challenge to the array of grand jurors;

• a valid challenge to an individual juror who served on the grand jury that found the indictment, except that finding of the valid challenge to one or more members of the grand jury is not grounds for dismissal of the indictment if there were 12 or more qualified jurors concurring in the finding of the indictment;

• that the charge in the indictment was previously submitted to a magistrate at preliminary hearing and dismissed for lack of probable cause; or

• that the indictment was not properly found, endorsed and presented as required by these rules or by the statutes of the state of Idaho.

I.C.R. 6.6. Grounds for Motion to Dismiss Indictment | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[SLouTh]

I thought that the prosecution presides over the GJ, not a judge. If that is the case, then not sure how the defense would proceed to challenge the indictment.

TBH I don’t fully understand this whole grand jury secret thing … but I have been reading about the Idaho Law governing it ….

Yes the only people that hear what the Prosecution deliver, appear to be the Grand Jury Members ….. but wouldn’t they have to deliver their verdict to a judge at the end???
I have seen a judge mentioned in my reading …. But not that specifically …

I find this entire Grand Jury “concept” in this case, to not be very fair and equitable ….. as they only hear one side, from the Prosecution … and yet at a trial there is supposed to be full sharing of information between Prosecution and Defence, prior to the trial.

It would be Intersting to see the statistics for Grand Jury hearings… do they ever not end with a result of indictment ?
The prosecution could only tell the GJ major pieces of evidence, which can look damning but infact could only be a small part of the “story” and there is no one to cross examine that evidence …..

JMO

Edit to add: oooops I think we were all posting at the same time…

 

[Helechawagirl]

Hypothetical only ……

What if he was in the general area at that time of the night / morning, but gives one aspect of his “alibi” at the incorrect time… wouldn't the prosecution try and discredit the entire alibi much more easily??? IYKWIM??

I understand the prosecution will attempt to destroy his alibi anyway….

Also Hypotheticals…

Could the prosecution be trying to ascertain he definitely acted in a “solo capacity”???

Is there a possibility he is safer in jail, than revealing his alibi???


Does anyone know if AT has used this or a similar strategy in a past case???


At the end of the day, I do agree, I don’t know why the alibi hasn’t been revealed as yet …..if there is one to reveal???
IMO

Could it be as simple as the TOD not exactly precise, I.e. can’t provide an alibi cuz don’t know what time it happened? JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

In addition to the above info, below is information on grounds for motion to dismiss a grand jury indictment by the defense.

Also, the motion to dismiss indictment is granted by the district court judge, so that would be Judge John C. Judge who is the district court judge of the of the 2nd district (Idaho) which includes Latah County, so he would rule on the defense's motion to dismiss, after hearing from both the defense and prosecution on the matter.

edited to clarify

Idaho Criminal Rule 6.6. Grounds for Motion to Dismiss Indictment

A motion to dismiss the indictment may be granted by the district court on any of the following grounds:

• a valid challenge to the array of grand jurors;

• a valid challenge to an individual juror who served on the grand jury that found the indictment, except that finding of the valid challenge to one or more members of the grand jury is not grounds for dismissal of the indictment if there were 12 or more qualified jurors concurring in the finding of the indictment;

• that the charge in the indictment was previously submitted to a magistrate at preliminary hearing and dismissed for lack of probable cause; or

• that the indictment was not properly found, endorsed and presented as required by these rules or by the statutes of the state of Idaho.

I.C.R. 6.6. Grounds for Motion to Dismiss Indictment | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

That last one looks like it could mean encompass a number of other things

• that the indictment was not properly found, endorsed and presented as required by these rules or by the statutes of the state of Idaho.

Not properly found? Does that mean probable cause
What statutes? Ones pertaining to properly found, endorsed and presented.
Legal interpreter required

 

[Nila Aella]

DBM Double post

 

[SLouTh]

That last one looks like it could mean encompass a number of other things

• that the indictment was not properly found, endorsed and presented as required by these rules or by the statutes of the state of Idaho.

Not properly found? Does that mean probable cause
What statutes? Ones pertaining to properly found, endorsed and presented.
Legal interpreter required

It appears to me, that it would / (will) be quite difficult to challenge the GJ Indictment …..

I am trying to remember …. And look through all of the documents… but were the Defence notified of this GJ Hearing before it occurred?? Or did they only find out in retrospect?? TIA

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

How secure was the crime scene in those first 4 hours after the 911 call???
It seems an awful long time to wait…..

I wonder if the defence will ask these questions??

JMO

RSBM

I imagine the defense will do its job; MPD of course had the scene properly secured from first arrival at the horrific scene.

“Brian Nickerson, the fire chief of the Moscow Volunteer Fire and EMS Department, said police were the first to arrive at the home. The first responders from the fire and EMS department didn't go inside or transport anyone from the scene, Nickerson said.”

Police identify 4 University of Idaho students found dead inside a home near campus; homicide investigation underway

MOO, as always

 

[Nila Aella]

Whoops: Stepped on Schooling No 323 above.

If you look at SE Nevada St on Google Street: It can only be driven about 75 yards North of NE Stadium; the only route at that point is a left onto NE Washington. Other than entrances to some parking lots and building service areas, a car can then only proceed on SE Idaho or SE Spokane...All of those routes have frequent crosswalks and at least a couple of full width speed bumps. From there to BK's apartment is a circuitous path with more of the same.
So the round trip in 9 minutes or less seems impossible even at 2:45 AM, I would concur that he paused somewhere or simply wandered around. Lacking any other indication, one might think that the specific time that was chosen to head for Moscow was prompted by something incoming on his phone. Pure conjecture at this time but?
Which leads to 2-questions:
How, or why, did he get to SE Nevada heading north and crossing NE Stadium? SE Nevada only runs some 120 yards South of NE Stadium....and
What was he doing for the 9-minute interval between Nevada northbound and Nevada southbound?

Great sleuthing using google street!
Interesting thought about the phone prompt.
Same questions here. He was already out, driving, and ended up there before driving to Moscow. Before today, I thought he was at home before he left for Moscow.
Now I have to go google street the area

 

[SLouTh]

Great sleuthing using google street!
Interesting thought about the phone prompt.
Same questions here. He was already out, driving, and ended up there before driving to Moscow. Before today, I thought he was at home before he left for Moscow.
Now I have to go google street the area

Just wondering if I have this correct??? If google maps / street is on your phone, even if you don’t use it…. It can still be used to track where you have been ??? by downloading the data …

 

[Nila Aella]

TBH I don’t fully understand this whole grand jury secret thing … but I have been reading about the Idaho Law governing it ….

Yes the only people that hear what the Prosecution deliver, appear to be the Grand Jury Members ….. but wouldn’t they have to deliver their verdict to a judge at the end???
I have seen a judge mentioned in my reading …. But not that specifically …

I find this entire Grand Jury “concept” in this case, to not be very fair and equitable ….. as they only hear one side, from the Prosecution … and yet at a trial there is supposed to be full sharing of information between Prosecution and Defence, prior to the trial.

It would be Intersting to see the statistics for Grand Jury hearings… do they ever not end with a result of indictment ?
The prosecution could only tell the GJ major pieces of evidence, which can look damning but infact could only be a small part of the “story” and there is no one to cross examine that evidence …..

JMO

Edit to add: oooops I think we were all posting at the same time…

When reading the formation of the grand jury idaho rules: the only mention of the Court I see is that the jurors can ask questions and for direction from the Court, and file their indictment with the Court.
It would be interesting to know the statistic of indictments by grand jury panels!
MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

Just wondering if I have this correct??? If google maps / street is on your phone, even if you don’t use it…. It can still be used to track where you have been ??? by downloading the data …

I am the wrong person to ask lol...but I think so yes. Something to do with the timeline feature, if you don't toggle it off? I think.