A New Look at Intruder Theories

[sandraladeda]

I really like the idea of these "take a new look" threads. I have gotten tired of the "same old same old" endless looping discussions of the same facts. Sooo, here goes, an attempt to piece together an IDI theory (I am a pretty firm RDI, by the way)

sandraladeda's IDI theory Part 1

The Rs came home that night. JBR liked to be carried to bed and so pretended to be asleep (a certain little girl named sandraladeda used to do that very thing when she was small ) Therefore, JBR's parents believed she was asleep when they brought her home. However, when "the coast was clear", a hungry JBR snuck out of bed and helped herself to a snack of pineapple. Being small and accustomed to having people clean up after her, it did not occur to her to clean up the pineapple mess. Voila, pineapple explained.

The intruder - I do not believe that an intruder just "got lucky" and came along and tried the door and got into the house. Someone was there for a reason. The reason was to harm JBR. Why? What motive? Way back when this crime occurred, I had a feeling it was someone who was jealous of JBR or PR, or the entire R family. They were rich, they had a "perfect" life, they were prominent, JBR received a lot of attention. Someone looked at the Rs and hated them with a great, obsessive passion (hated JR, PR, or JBR, I am not sure which R, unless they hated the whole family) They thought "I'll wipe the smile of PR's face, I'll stop her incessant grandstanding of her child and her picture perfect home, she won't be so smug anymore..." (or something like that)

Who was it? Someone who could get away on Christmas night, so it likely was someone not married or with a family (who would risk being missing from their home on Christmas night? How could one ever explain a late night absence if hubby or kids woke up to find you missing?) Likely someone who had been in the R home, maybe in the previous weeks, maybe even unlocked a door for later entry, or helped themselves to a key. Someone who had had plenty of opportunity to grow jealous of the Rs, what they had, what PR bragged about. A good chance it was someone who worked for Access, or had overheard yet another maddening fact crowed about by one of the Rs - the dollar value of JR's bonus.

Whoever it was, they either arrived at the house in the daytime, and waited for the family to go to sleep, or else, when spying in the window, spotted JBR awake, and got her to let them in (someone known to the family that JBR would let in) I lean toward lying in wait. All along, as I write this, I picture the person being a woman. maybe this lonely jealous obsessed woman was in the habit of walking at night and looking in the R house. It is possible it was not planned for anything to happen that night. Maybe the opportunity just presented itself.

I'll continue with Part 2 - I don't want to lose what I have typed so far!!

 

[sandraladeda]

Part 2

Okay. so our intruder is in the house with JBR. Maybe planned, maybe not.

However she got there, she is alone with JBR. I am picturing this person is shaking in her boots. She is alone with JBR, and the parents are in the house. What if they get up? She must act quickly. She tells JBR that she will tuck her into bed, so up the stairs they go. When JBR gets into bed, the intruder whacks her on the head with a handy flashlight she found in the kitchen (She whacks her so hard, the flashlight batteries fall out! She wipes the prints off the batteries before she replaces them!)

She is not sure if JBR is dead or not. That head whack made an awful lot of noise, and she suddenly feels very vulnerable, so close to the sleeping family. She has to get JBR as far as possible away from earshot of her family, to finish her off. She is now at the point of no return. She grabs the inert body of JBR, and rushes down to the basement, where she uses materials immediately available to strangle JBR, to be sure she is dead. Now she will have a bit of time to think. Maybe she should take the body away, make it look like a kidnapping. Tiptoeing upstairs, she grabs a pen and paper to compose a note. She is so freaked over what she is doing, she composes a completely irrational, long-winded ransom note, to place on the stairs, where the parents will find it, so she has time to think about what to do next. Her thinking is that the mom and dad will not scour the house for their daughter, nor call the police (for fear of JBR being beheaded) and will therefore not come to the basement where she hides, paralyzed with fear, and trying to figure out how to get out of the house and not get caught. she is unsure what to do - take the body with her? Leave it at the house?

Thinking that the ransom note has bought her some time (at least she will hear the parents upstairs and have some advance notice to escape if necessary) she sets out to stage a better plan - make it look like a pervert (read: evil man) has come into the home on a mission to sexually assault JBR. Thus the staging of the sexual assault takes place.

This has all taken so long. As the time goes by, she is losing her nerve. The idea of taking the body with her is out, she could be caught. She is not strong enough to carry JBR far. She just wants to get out of there! she wipes the flashlight, and any other surface she may have touched. she slips out of the house.

PS - oh yes, the panties!
Actually, JBR had an accident at the Whites. She herself removed her panties at the Whites, so she would not get into trouble. Her panties were so little, she just rolled them into a ball and threw them into the garbage at the Whites. That is why the size 6 panties were never found. When she came home, she took out the size 12 Bloomies and put on the proper day of the week pair so her mom would not scold her for losing the original pair.

The End.

 

[Chrishope]

I like your explanation of why the size 6s were never found.

It's not clear to me that JBR knew where the size 12s were - we know they weren't in her dresser.

I realize that the goal here is to try to look at it from a different angle, however, we still need to account for everything. Didn't PR say she put the LJs on JBR while JBR was asleep? She'd have noticed JBR not wearing any panties.

 

[Tadpole12]

Ya, me too, Sandraladeda ...I enjoyed reading your theory.

I'm far from familiar with the case, but for sure this is 'the' starting point for consideration in IDI? or RDI + unidentifiable DNA.?...

"Who was it? Someone who could get away on Christmas night, so it likely was someone not married or with a family (who would risk being missing from their home on Christmas night? How could one ever explain a late night absence if hubby or kids woke up to find you missing?)

 

[UKGuy]

PS - oh yes, the panties!
Actually, JBR had an accident at the Whites. She herself removed her panties at the Whites, so she would not get into trouble. Her panties were so little, she just rolled them into a ball and threw them into the garbage at the Whites. That is why the size 6 panties were never found. When she came home, she took out the size 12 Bloomies and put on the proper day of the week pair so her mom would not scold her for losing the original pair.
The End.

sandraladeda,
The intruder theories can be more appealing than plain old parents did it. So If JonBenet dressed herself in the size-12's, why were none discovered in her panty drawer?


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[sandraladeda]

sandraladeda,
The intruder theories can be more appealing than plain old parents did it. So If JonBenet dressed herself in the size-12's, why were none discovered in her panty drawer?


.

Hi UKGuy. First of all, please don't think of me as an IDI, I am a confirmed RDI (see members theories sticky, I posted one some time ago) However, just for the sake of this thread, to play devil's advocate, to think creatively, I tried to come up with an IDI scenario.

As to your question - I remember being a little girl, and knowing alot more than my parents thought I did. The panties could have been anywhere - the drawer, a closet, elsewhere. One recollection PR had was that they were set aside to send to the niece with her Xmas gifts. It is very possible that JR knew better than her mother where the size 12s were.

I guess the next question could be why were the size 12s not found elsewhere in the house? My response would be that in many ways this investigation was botched (allowing friends over to the house, allowing PR's sister to come into the house and take stuff, etc.) and we cannot know how thorough a search or inventory of the contents of the house was done.

That's the best I can do!

 

[sandraladeda]

I like your explanation of why the size 6s were never found.

It's not clear to me that JBR knew where the size 12s were - we know they weren't in her dresser.

I realize that the goal here is to try to look at it from a different angle, however, we still need to account for everything. Didn't PR say she put the LJs on JBR while JBR was asleep? She'd have noticed JBR not wearing any panties.

Ya got me there....will have to ponder it some more.....

Okay, what if PR pulled off the leggings in one swoop, and as it was dark, did not notice there were no panties rolled up inside the black velvet leggings?

...but then, I am not sure why it would then matter to JBR to put on the size 12s....

 

[maya.morgen]

Okay,let's assume there was an intruder ...

IMO,if there was one,it was definitely someone who knew the Ramsey's and all the violence happened in order to punish the Ramsey's.So who around them could have been so angry and so sick and why?Even so,someone who can commit such a crime out of rage suddenly goes back to a normal,family(probably) life???

Re the stranger/intruder-I will never believe that a stranger,psycho,weirdo,peado,you name it,just STOPPED after such a crime and isn't in any databases.Period.

 

[BBB167893]

Okay,let's assume there was an intruder ...

IMO,if there was one,it was definitely someone who knew the Ramsey's and all the violence happened in order to punish the Ramsey's.So who around them could have been so angry and so sick and why?

Who knows? You know what people are like. Some people get mad enough to kill over something that never actually happened.

Even so,someone who can commit such a crime out of rage suddenly goes back to a normal,family(probably) life???

Apparently. On a side note, that's one of the big problems I have with the IDI people. They can't believe that the Rs could kill and go back to "normal" (a designation I take great issue with, BTW), yet they want us to believe that the killer did exactly that.

Re the stranger/intruder-I will never believe that a stranger,psycho,weirdo,peado,you name it,just STOPPED after such a crime and isn't in any databases.Period.

Me, neither. Like I always say: keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

 

[DeeDee249]

PR was questioned abut whether she recalled if JBR was wearing panties when she dressed her for bed. PR said she would definitely have remembered if she WAS NOT wearing panties so she assumed nothing was out of the ordinary. This line of questioning was dancing around the size 12s and trying to get out of PR if she knew when and how those too big panties got on her dead daughter. In this interview, LE lets PR know in so many words that it was noticed that JBR was wearing panties that were obviously not her correct size. For a mother who argued with her 6-year old daughter about wearing matching outfits to a party, this was NOT a mother who would purchase ill-fitting clothing for her child and/or allow her to wear them. Those size 12s were never in JBR's drawer, were never given to her. They were meant for Jenny, wrapped up with a gift and later opened by a parent to redress JBR after her original panties were too bloody.

 

[UKGuy]

PR was questioned abut whether she recalled if JBR was wearing panties when she dressed her for bed. PR said she would definitely have remembered if she WAS NOT wearing panties so she assumed nothing was out of the ordinary. This line of questioning was dancing around the size 12s and trying to get out of PR if she knew when and how those too big panties got on her dead daughter. In this interview, LE lets PR know in so many words that it was noticed that JBR was wearing panties that were obviously not her correct size. For a mother who argued with her 6-year old daughter about wearing matching outfits to a party, this was NOT a mother who would purchase ill-fitting clothing for her child and/or allow her to wear them. Those size 12s were never in JBR's drawer, were never given to her. They were meant for Jenny, wrapped up with a gift and later opened by a parent to redress JBR after her original panties were too bloody.

DeeDee249,
I think JR arrives at the same answer on the same topic e.g. I would have noticed if there were no pants.

Keeping with the intruder theme. Since the police and CSI did a complete house search which turned up no size-12's and most importantly, sometimes lost in the evidence wars, Patsy was asked, if there had been two packets of underwear purchased at Bloomingdales, remember Patsy developed amnesia, then there should still be one package of underwear unopened lying somewhere in the house? Now the house search had been completed at this point, hence the line of questioning. So the interviewer was laying a trap for Patsy, which culminated in Patsy agreeing two things:

1. There could be an unopened pack of underwear in the house.
2. No size-12's were discovered in JonBenet's panty drawer.

The latter two results were probably intended to used in any trial, since the interviewer qualified his questions on the basis they were intended to reveal whether an intruder brought the size-12's into the house.

So any part of an intruder theory should assume that an intruder brought a pair of size-12's into the house, or alternately opened a pack of size-12's, using the Wednesday pair then removing the remaining 6-pairs?


.

 

[maya.morgen]

Can an IDI pls tell me how Burke's knife ended up in the basement?

 

[sandraladeda]

Can an IDI explain why an intruder would care about JBR's Wednesday panties?

 

[maya.morgen]

Can an IDI explain why an intruder would care about JBR's Wednesday panties?

He hates Monday's?


(sorry,couldn't help it :crazy: )

 

[Chrishope]

Okay,

I'm trying to look at this from an IDI perspective. I don't have a fully developed intruder theory yet, but what if it was committed by someone who wanted to do the "perfect murder" ?

I was reading about the Leopold and Loeb case, from 1924. There was a longish ransom note - though not as long as the Novella that PR wrote. There was an attempt to collect ransom, but the amount asked for was $10,000. Even in 1924 this was not a lot of money to demand from a millionaire.

So what if the intruder was inspired by the L&L case, and wasn't really interested in the money, but wanted to commit a murder and get away with it. What if everything done at the crime scene was just to make the scene unfathomable?

 

[sandraladeda]

Okay,

I'm trying to look at this from an IDI perspective. I don't have a fully developed intruder theory yet, but what if it was committed by someone who wanted to do the "perfect murder" ?

I was reading about the Leopold and Loeb case, from 1924. There was a longish ransom note - though not as long as the Novella that PR wrote. There was an attempt to collect ransom, but the amount asked for was $10,000. Even in 1924 this was not a lot of money to demand from a millionaire.

So what if the intruder was inspired by the L&L case, and wasn't really interested in the money, but wanted to commit a murder and get away with it. What if everything done at the crime scene was just to make the scene unfathomable?

I'm playing along with you too. There was a lot of "unfathomable" (the RN comes immediately to mind)

I can see wanting to go for "unfathomable". However - the pineapple? Would someone have thought "hey, let's feed the kid some pineapple?" or "hey, let's snoop through the closets/drawers and replace her undies with bigger undies"...

If the theory is that someone was trying to commit a perfect murder and throw investigators off track with conflicting evidence left behind (Ransom? Sexual assault? Murder? Revenge? Political statement?) then the pineapple and panties become, ironically, unfit for the term "unfathomable", because of their very lack of randomness. The replaced panties reveal a familiarity with 1 - the fact that JB was wearing Wednesday panties (a big leap that they would notice or care!) 2 - the existence of the other pack of days-of-the-week bloomies and 3 - where they were stored. Same with the pineapple - what is the likelihood that the killer, in a quest for confounding randomness fed JBR pineapple and she just happened to love snacking on pineapple?

 

[DeeDee249]

Okay,

I'm trying to look at this from an IDI perspective. I don't have a fully developed intruder theory yet, but what if it was committed by someone who wanted to do the "perfect murder" ?

I was reading about the Leopold and Loeb case, from 1924. There was a longish ransom note - though not as long as the Novella that PR wrote. There was an attempt to collect ransom, but the amount asked for was $10,000. Even in 1924 this was not a lot of money to demand from a millionaire.

So what if the intruder was inspired by the L&L case, and wasn't really interested in the money, but wanted to commit a murder and get away with it. What if everything done at the crime scene was just to make the scene unfathomable?

Points taken, but then why lie about so many things? The pineapple, owning the bowl it was in whether she was asleep that night on arrival home, the lying about the panties, and the complete lack of any evidence (excluding DNA) that anyone else was ever in that home. The 911 call. The behavior of the parents, their lawyers (i.e. the questions the Rs were NOT allowed to answer) screams guilt. The many doctor visits for "infections".
And the biggest problem with an intruder kidnapping like this- the solid evidence of prior vaginal intrusion. (erosion of the hymen doesn't happen from a 1-time event.)

 

[BBB167893]

And the biggest problem with an intruder kidnapping like this- the solid evidence of prior vaginal intrusion. (erosion of the hymen doesn't happen from a 1-time event.)

DeeDee249, you just beat me to it.

 

[DeeDee249]

Great minds think alike, they say...

 

[BBB167893]

Great minds think alike, they say...

Yeah, but what about us?

Just Kidding! LOL