A New Look at Intruder Theories

[LI_Mom]

And then you'd have JR saying "No don't do that. Bad idea. Somebody might think you wrote it." Or is he naive or crazy too?

I think the Ramseys themselves specifically told us that they WERE "naive".... that was the central theme of their book "Death of Innocence."


I wouldn't call either of the Ramseys crazy but I don't think they were particularly smart.... as a matter of fact, I think they were rather stupid.

 

[Ames]

I think the Ramseys themselves specifically told us that they WERE "naive".... that was the central theme of their book "Death of Innocence."


I wouldn't call either of the Ramseys crazy but I don't think they were particularly smart.... as a matter of fact, I think they were rather stupid.

Right, and if you are in an extreme panick, there is no telling what a person might do. IMO..they were probably out of their stinkin' minds, enough not think things through. All they were probably thinking at the time of the RN, was having a reason to explain the dead body in the basement, pointing to an intruder, and saving their own butts. They weren't concerned with handwriting comparisons at that moment. They probably figured that they would worry about that when and if the time come. I am sure that they probably thought that they had did such a wonderful job of staging, that the police wouldn't DARE suspect either of them...AND HENCE the almost three page RN, in Patsy's writing.

 

[LI_Mom]

Right, and if you are in an extreme panick, there is no telling what a person might do. IMO..they were probably out of their stinkin' minds, enough not think things through. All they were probably thinking at the time of the RN, was having a reason to explain the dead body in the basement, pointing to an intruder, and saving their own butts. They weren't concerned with handwriting comparisons at that moment. They probably figured that they would worry about that when and if the time come. I am sure that they probably thought that they had did such a wonderful job of staging, that the police wouldn't DARE suspect either of them...AND HENCE the almost three page RN, in Patsy's writing.

Actually when people are overly nervous or are lying, don't they very often have a tendency to develop 'diarrhea of the mouth' (pen)?

Defense lawyers know this. Psychologists do also.

 

[Ames]

Actually when people are overly nervous or are lying, don't they very often have a tendency to develop 'diarrhea of the mouth' (pen)?

Defense lawyers know this. Psychologists do also.

YEP they do! She got carried away trying to point to an intruder. People that lie don't know when to shut up...because they try overly hard to be convincing.

 

[BBB167893]

Don't forget the legal talent they employed.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

1. As SD said, they were leaving for Mich. that morning. No choice but to place the call. They didn't need to get their fingerprints off the bowls - nothing weird about their own prints on their own bowls. What was wierd is that JBR ate pineapple when she was supposedly asleep in bed.

2. I might agree on #2. KN = FBI, and those boys know how to investigate. You're no longer dealing with the local PD. Possibly the head injury was such that it just couldn't be made to look accidental? Possibly the garroting wasn't staging? You still have to account for the fact that if it was an intruder, then the KN didn't go down. Why not?

3. It takes a tremendous amount of denial to pretend that PR didn't write the note. Even the handwritting expert hired by the Rs wouldn't rule out PR. All the other experts say she is probably the author. As much as you'd like to, you can't eliminate the handwritting comparision issue - it's very suspicious that the small foreign faction has handwritting that looks just like PR's.

Self-defeating does not = untrue. Repeat criminals make mistakes. Amatures make even more.

I'm surprised to read that from a devout RDI. I agree with you. Nothing wierd about PR fibers on JBR either.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Too many superfluous and paradoxical elements that exist in any given theory are probably symptoms of an invalid theory. Its like you've finished putting your car back together, and find parts still lying around. Oops.

There are some parts still scattered around for RDI:

"You're not the only fat cat around so dont think that killing will be difficult" In any RDI theory, this remark is superfluous. Many, many other RN remarks are superfuous in RDI.

The 2nd ligature around JBR"s wrist is superfluous, in most RDI theories.

The breaks to the paintbrush have no meaning for RDI, and becomes superfluous (quick, think up a reason for PR/JR breaking the brush).

The staging of sexual assault and strangulation in the basement vs. the staging of the kidnap for ransom is a paradox.

Calling 911 hours before the RN that they themselves wrote is a paradox.

The existence of unknown male DNA in more than one location at the crime scene is superfluous to RDI.

Cord fiber found in JBR's bed is superfluous to basement staging.

A household member leaving 1500 characters of personal script is paradoxical because it contradicts a reasoning shared by everybody.

A violent, brutal murder, whether staged or real, vs. a family with no violent history whatsoever is a paradox.



I could go on but I wont. See what I mean?

 

[DeeDee249]

I'm surprised to read that from a devout RDI. I agree with you. Nothing wierd about PR fibers on JBR either.

Not exactly. Fibers on the INSIDE of the tape from her mouth and wound into the garrote knot would not have gotten there by innocent transfer, even less likely IF (as you repeatedly mention) the cord/tape were not sourced to the R home. JR's shirt fibers INSIDE her REDRESSED panties would not have gotten there innocently either. These things place both parents handling JBR during the crime, both as she was killed and after.
PR herself said she never wore that red/black/white fleece jacket while painting or even in the basement. So the fibers had no way to get in the paint tote or on JBR.
JBR was covered with a blanket and sweatshirt before PR even came into the living room where her body had been placed. So when PR threw herself on top of her daughter, JBR was covered. The garrote knot was at the back of JBR's neck, and the body was placed face up, head frozen in place by rigor mortis to the right. That's her HEAD. Not her neck. That knot with the fibers was still in the back (near the floor).

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Message to Chrishope:

Maybe you should consider changing your signature, because it sure seems like hopeless RDI.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm surprised to read that from a devout RDI. I agree with you. Nothing wierd about PR fibers on JBR either.

I'm kind of surprised he phrased it like that too. What's weird is not that the prints were found; what's weird is the deception surrounding it.

As for the fibers, they weren't on JBR, they were on things Patsy shouldn't have been in contact with, not to mention that her explanation is contradicted by her own book!

 

[BBB167893]

Too many superfluous and paradoxical elements that exist in any given theory are probably symptoms of an invalid theory. Its like you've finished putting your car back together, and find parts still lying around. Oops.

You'll have to pardon my excessive butting in, Holdon. But I've studied crime for fifteen years, and crime isn't like autobody repair. There will ALWAYS be spare pieces left over. Only in Hollywood does every single piece "click" together all kosher. You don't have to reinvent the wheel.

There are some parts still scattered around for RDI:

"You're not the only fat cat around so dont think that killing will be difficult" In any RDI theory, this remark is superfluous. Many, many other RN remarks are superfluous in RDI.

Do we HAVE to go through that again?

The 2nd ligature around JBR"s wrist is superfluous, in most RDI theories.

With the benefit of hindsight.

The breaks to the paintbrush have no meaning for RDI, and becomes superfluous (quick, think up a reason for PR/JR breaking the brush).

Let me get back to you

The staging of sexual assault and strangulation in the basement vs. the staging of the kidnap for ransom is a paradox.

That's what we (and the CASKU) have been saying!

Calling 911 hours before the RN that they themselves wrote is a paradox.

Do I have to explain that one again?

The existence of unknown male DNA in more than one location at the crime scene is superfluous to RDI.

Just rotten luck, to paraphrase Henry Lee.

Cord fiber found in JBR's bed is superfluous to basement staging.

If you read my theory, you'll see that I don't think the staging began in the basement.

A household member leaving 1500 characters of personal script is paradoxical because it contradicts a reasoning shared by everybody.

Since when it murdering a child a reasonable act? You're trying to make sense of something completely senseless. In fact, the day child-murder DOES make sense to me, I will pray for death.

A violent, brutal murder, whether staged or real, vs. a family with no violent history whatsoever is a paradox.

A family who didn't know what a real crime scene looked like.

I could go on but I wont. See what I mean?

Yeah, I think I do.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yeah, I think I do.

Do you really? The RDI theories I've read are, in a word, paradoxical. They're too paradoxical to be believable.

Do get back to me on the breaking of the paintbrush, SD. I'm curious what RDI can now suddenly come up with on that after staring at it for 10 years.

There's not much mystery to that in IDI.

 

[BBB167893]

Do you really?

Yeah, I think I do.

The RDI theories I've read are, in a word, paradoxical. They're too paradoxical to be believable.

Like Lawrence Schiller said, "this was a perfect murder by accident." The perfect storm, as it were. A good prosecutor could have broken it. Underline "good."

Do get back to me on the breaking of the paintbrush, SD. I'm curious what RDI can now suddenly come up with on that after staring at it for 10 years.

Never gave it much thought really. Even when I was an IDI. But I had heard once that it was actually a stick used for mixing paint, so it could have been broken for a while. But that was a while ago.

There's not much mystery to that in IDI.

Oh?

I have a paradox for you. A knife was found at the scene. It belonged to Burke Ramsey. Only three people in the entire world knew where it was hidden. It wasn't used on JBR, since she had no stab wounds or slashes.

 

[DeeDee249]

Oh?

I have a paradox for you. A knife was found at the scene. It belonged to Burke Ramsey. Only three people in the entire world knew where it was hidden. It wasn't used on JBR, since she had no stab wounds or slashes.

But it MAY have been used to cut the nylon cord. LE refuses to say whether they think so.

 

[Ames]

I'm surprised to read that from a devout RDI. I agree with you. Nothing wierd about PR fibers on JBR either.

Alot weird about Patsy's fiber's entwined in Garrote, on the UNDERSIDE of the tape covering JB's mouth, and inside the paint tote, though.

 

[Ames]

But it MAY have been used to cut the nylon cord. LE refuses to say whether they think so.

Yep, that would be MY guess as to what it was used for.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Oh?

Never gave it much thought really. Even when I was an IDI. But I had heard once that it was actually a stick used for mixing paint, so it could have been broken for a while. But that was a while ago.

The paintbrush was broken at both ends, SD, and shards were found in the tote.

 

[BBB167893]

The paintbrush was broken at both ends, SD, and shards were found in the tote.

Yeah, I know that. But the pointed end was broken off, so that might account for the shards. I can't say about the bristle end one way or another.

But let's try this: let's assume, for the moment, that it was completely intact at first. The brush was very likely used to stage sexual assault (per Werner Spitz and CASKU), so using it and breaking off the pointed end to dispose of it later would make sense, RDI-wise. But the bristle end is even simpler. Let me lay this illustration on you. To jab, the person would have to grip it far enough down the handle to get it in far enough (I'm going to hell for this!). Grabbing the bristles would be too unwieldy for that, and leaving the bristle end on would not allow the proper grip. So, you eliminate it.

Fair enough?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yeah, I know that. But we know, or can assume, that the handle end was still on it, so that was broken off. But what about the bristle end?

Why would you think the paintbrush was broken at both ends, SD?

 

[Ames]

The paintbrush was broken at both ends, SD, and shards were found in the tote.

How does anybody but the Rams know....WHEN it was broken.