A New Look at Intruder Theories

[angelwngs]

...and the overwhelming need to be center stage and exhibit one's own talents....

 

[UKGuy]

Think about it for more than a minute, and it may occur to you that the farther away you are from the crime scene socially, the less likely you're handwriting is going to be compared. If you live in a remote country that is socially disconnected from the R's, then the likelihood is remote. If you live there, its a certainty. Therefore, given a semi-rational perp, it is more likely an intruder from a foreign faction would choose to leave handwriting than an adult member of the household.

Feel free to keep coming up with 'rational' reasons for a household member to put pen to paper at a capital crime scene. You'd be better off simply claiming that PR was irrational, naive or crazy enough to not know handwriting and linguistics can be analyzed, and to not know staging a kidnapping is worse than staging an accident.

I agree that typing or using the PC could be too noisy, so I'll go with the scissors, book, and tape option.

Holdontoyourhat,

Feel free to keep coming up with 'rational' reasons for a household member to put pen to paper at a capital crime scene. You'd be better off simply claiming that PR was irrational, naive or crazy enough to not know handwriting and linguistics can be analyzed, and to not know staging a kidnapping is worse than staging an accident.

The rational reason is staging, how many times need you be reminded? The crime-scene was staged so requires a third party voice to vocalise the staged setup, enter stage left one Ransom Note.

No intruder on the planet is going to sit in the Ramsey house and author a Ransom Note. Thats why the Ransom Note as staging makes so much sense.

With no forensic evidence linking to any intruder whatsoever any claims regarding an intruder must be fictional and speculative!


.

 

[LI_Mom]

Holdontoyourhat,

No intruder on the planet is going to sit in the Ramsey house and author a Ransom Note. Thats why the Ransom Note as staging makes so much sense.

.

But this wasn't just ANY intruder...... this was one of those pineapple-toting, kidnapper turned pedophile turned murderer kind of visitor.

Not to mention, the visitor was pretty darned neat & was also careful not to destroy or steal any property from the Ramsey home.

Except for the JB business.... a very considerate houseguest. :crazy:

 

[BBB167893]

This is quite riveting!

Just to add:

And do you really think money will help avoid even an arrest?

When you can afford your own experts and a law firm that's more powerful than the Governor, I'd say it's a safe bet, Holdon. Plenty of people have bought their way free.

But it wasn't just money. The police wanted to arrest them. The FBI, the three Dream Team advisors and the Chief told them to do it, but the DA wouldn't allow it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Are you saying that it has never occurred in history where one spouse is mentally ill and the other is not? That's ridiculous. Why, my own spouse is crazy as a sh**house rat. (sorry)

If you really believe JR was sane, then JR would've talked PR out of the handwriting idea. Remember it would've been just as easy and safer to cut words and letters from a book than to handwrite.

RDI always wants to play down the idea that only an idiot or naive person would put pen to paper at a capital crime scene. Even making it sound like an 'understandable' thing for them to do that, as if the conditions called for a handwritten note. Thats just ridiculous.

There's nobody here that can honestly claim they would ever leave over 1500 of their own handwritten characters at a capital crime scene, disguised or not. You would have to be 'forced' to handwrite it. Maybe thats something RDI should look into, because the voluntary writing idea is out the window.

 

[DeeDee249]

I can't even respond to that. What you say makes no sense to me at all. Plenty of sane people are accomplices to crime. Even crimes like this. People cover for loved ones all the time. To now add the ridiculous process of cutting out letters from a magazine to make the RN, like some scene from a movie, just defies logic.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I can't even respond to that. What you say makes no sense to me at all. Plenty of sane people are accomplices to crime. Even crimes like this. People cover for loved ones all the time. To now add the ridiculous process of cutting out letters from a magazine to make the RN, like some scene from a movie, just defies logic.

Yes of course they do.

Thats exactly why JR would've stopped PR from handwriting the note. You know, the same note that some people actually believe she wrote.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, the same note many experts also believe she wrote.

 

[BBB167893]

Naive or insane might not have had anything to do with it.

Here's what I mean: quick show of hands, how many of us here knew there was such a thing as linguistic analysis before this case?

Contrary to what is sometimes implied, there's no ho-to book on killing your child and covering it up afterward. Or if there is, I'm fairly certain the Ramseys hadn't read it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Naive or insane might not have had anything to do with it.

Here's what I mean: quick show of hands, how many of us here knew there was such a thing as linguistic analysis before this case?

Contrary to what is sometimes implied, there's no ho-to book on killing your child and covering it up afterward. Or if there is, I'm fairly certain the Ramseys hadn't read it.

I'd ask how many of us would voluntarily leave over 1500 characters written by our own hand at a capital crime scene?

Be honest now.

 

[BBB167893]

I'd ask how many of us would voluntarily leave over 1500 characters written by our own hand at a capital crime scene?

Be honest now.

I'm always honest, Holdon. And I've always answered the same way: I don't know what I'd do in a spot like that. But I'm always surprised what people will try if they think they can get away with it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'm always honest, Holdon. And I've always answered the same way: I don't know what I'd do in a spot like that. But I'm always surprised what people will try if they think they can get away with it.

You don't huh? We'll, dont start by handwriting a a long note. Its a bad idea. Investigators will force you to write with your opposite hand, the exact words of the note. If that doesn't work, they'll force you to write with the same style block lettering, with your writing hand. They'll keep going until they find a combination that 'works for them'. Then they'll point at the 10 or 12 letters that look like an '8' written in a similar way by each.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The paradoxical mess created by every RDI scenario:

• Choosing to call 911 at 6 AM vs. hours or even a day later. That would've provided more time to get rid of all those bowls and glasses with their fingerprints on them.
• Choosing to stage a kidnapping vs. an accident. A kidnapping is sure to invite the FBI, and more advanced investigating. An accident is easier to stage and doesn't call for the FBI and a child homicide investigation.
• Household members choosing to handwrite 1500 characters, vs. cutting out a dozen or so words from a book or newspaper. Sort of eliminates the whole handwriting comparison issue. You dont need a massive IQ to figure this one out.

What RDI attempts to convince us is that all these self-defeating events took place. The fact that they are inherently self-defeating should be a clue that they are untrue.

 

[BBB167893]

You don't huh? We'll, dont start by handwriting a a long note. Its a bad idea.

No, I don't. And with any luck, I'll never have to find out. Bad idea? Yes, you know that and I know that now. That's the thing about hindsight: it's always 20/20. We all know how that works.

Investigators will force you to write with your opposite hand, the exact words of the note. If that doesn't work, they'll force you to write with the same style block lettering, with your writing hand.

Isn't that exactly what they're supposed to do? Anyone?

They'll keep going until they find a combination that 'works for them'.

I have a pretty good idea what you're trying to say. Well, that bird won't fly with me.

Then they'll point at the 10 or 12 letters that look like an '8' written in a similar way by each.

I'd like to see where you're going with this.

 

[BBB167893]

The paradoxical mess created by every RDI scenario:

• Choosing to call 911 at 6 AM vs. hours or even a day later. That would've provided more time to get rid of all those bowls and glasses with their fingerprints on them.
• Choosing to stage a kidnapping vs. an accident. A kidnapping is sure to invite the FBI, and more advanced investigating. An accident is easier to stage and doesn't call for the FBI and a child homicide investigation.
• Household members choosing to handwrite 1500 characters, vs. cutting out a dozen or so words from a book or newspaper. Sort of eliminates the whole handwriting comparison issue. You dont need a massive IQ to figure this one out.

What RDI attempts to convince us is that all these self-defeating events took place. The fact that they are inherently self-defeating should be a clue that they are untrue.

Well, I can answer the first one easily. They didn't have a choice but to call 911 when they did. You forget, they had the pilot ready to go and everyone knew that they were leaving that morning. If they didn't show, someone would have come looking for them.

As for the second and third ones, that's why they had lawyers. Let me put it another way: if criminals didn't commit self-defeating steps, a lot more of them would get away with it.

 

[JMO8778]

Yes of course they do.

Thats exactly why JR would've stopped PR from handwriting the note. You know, the same note that some people actually believe she wrote.

You're missing the point here...THE RANSOM NOTE WAS WRITTEN ON PATSY'S NOTEPAD.you really think JR would have put his stink on it???No,but he'd be happy to let her do it!
Do you really think they'd use a typewriter or computer from the home? again,nope.personal property was probably all in JR's name..he probably purchased all such items in the home...again,his stink! besides,that can be proven which comp. or typewriter it came from...Patsy writing it w her left hand complicates things a bit. they probably also thought it would appear less likely that an intruder had come into their home and wrote the RN using their computer or typewriter.and IMO,it would have.
why didn't they cut n paste? look at the note..NO TIME!! the RN has crossed out words and mistakes..it's obvious they were running short on time!! no time to rewrite a version w no mistakes.this can be proven by 1- the mistakes in the note;note not rewritten despite a previous practice note(s) being done,and 2- the late time of the 911 call,in accordance w their previous plans.3- THEY NEEDED TO DIVERT LE AWAY FROM THEMSELVES ..AND HAVE AN EXCUSE FOR THEIR CHILD BEING FOUND DEAD!! BOOM!!

 

[JMO8778]

why would they stage a KN instead of an accident?? (an accident is still going to be analyzed to insure it really was an accident).they HAD to have someone else outside the home to point to due to JB's injuries.. you know,the chronic abuse,(verified by Dr Wecht),and the marks on her neck that Dr. Spitz said came from manual strangulation using her shirt collar....
WHAT OTHER CHOICE DID THEY HAVE???

 

[Chrishope]

The paradoxical mess created by every RDI scenario:

• Choosing to call 911 at 6 AM vs. hours or even a day later. That would've provided more time to get rid of all those bowls and glasses with their fingerprints on them.
• Choosing to stage a kidnapping vs. an accident. A kidnapping is sure to invite the FBI, and more advanced investigating. An accident is easier to stage and doesn't call for the FBI and a child homicide investigation.
• Household members choosing to handwrite 1500 characters, vs. cutting out a dozen or so words from a book or newspaper. Sort of eliminates the whole handwriting comparison issue. You dont need a massive IQ to figure this one out.

What RDI attempts to convince us is that all these self-defeating events took place. The fact that they are inherently self-defeating should be a clue that they are untrue.

1. As SD said, they were leaving for Mich. that morning. No choice but to place the call. They didn't need to get their fingerprints off the bowls - nothing weird about their own prints on their own bowls. What was wierd is that JBR ate pineapple when she was supposedly asleep in bed.

2. I might agree on #2. KN = FBI, and those boys know how to investigate. You're no longer dealing with the local PD. Possibly the head injury was such that it just couldn't be made to look accidental? Possibly the garroting wasn't staging? You still have to account for the fact that if it was an intruder, then the KN didn't go down. Why not?

3. It takes a tremendous amount of denial to pretend that PR didn't write the note. Even the handwritting expert hired by the Rs wouldn't rule out PR. All the other experts say she is probably the author. As much as you'd like to, you can't eliminate the handwritting comparision issue - it's very suspicious that the small foreign faction has handwritting that looks just like PR's.

Self-defeating does not = untrue. Repeat criminals make mistakes. Amatures make even more.

 

[Ames]

You don't huh? We'll, dont start by handwriting a a long note. Its a bad idea. Investigators will force you to write with your opposite hand, the exact words of the note. If that doesn't work, they'll force you to write with the same style block lettering, with your writing hand. They'll keep going until they find a combination that 'works for them'. Then they'll point at the 10 or 12 letters that look like an '8' written in a similar way by each.

Holdon, I have posted the procedures that are followed by all Handwriting Expert Analysts, did you not read all of them. Patsy was treated the same as any suspect...when asked to give her handwriting samples. The sample document HAS to be written in the same fashion as the original. If the original is block letters, then the sample has to be block letters, if the original is written in cursive, then the sample has to be written in cursive...get the picture? Patsy was treated NO differently than anyone else submitting their handwriting sample.

 

[Ames]

You're missing the point here...THE RANSOM NOTE WAS WRITTEN ON PATSY'S NOTEPAD.you really think JR would have put his stink on it???No,but he'd be happy to let her do it!
Do you really think they'd use a typewriter or computer from the home? again,nope.personal property was probably all in JR's name..he probably purchased all such items in the home...again,his stink! besides,that can be proven which comp. or typewriter it came from...Patsy writing it w her left hand complicates things a bit. they probably also thought it would appear less likely that an intruder had come into their home and wrote the RN using their computer or typewriter.and IMO,it would have.
why didn't they cut n paste? look at the note..NO TIME!! the RN has crossed out words and mistakes..it's obvious they were running short on time!! no time to rewrite a version w no mistakes.this can be proven by 1- the mistakes in the note;note not rewritten despite a previous practice note(s) being done,and 2- the late time of the 911 call,in accordance w their previous plans.3- THEY NEEDED TO DIVERT LE AWAY FROM THEMSELVES ..AND HAVE AN EXCUSE FOR THEIR CHILD BEING FOUND DEAD!! BOOM!!

I agree! Patsy had no choice, but to write that note. They just had to take their chances with the handwriting experts.