A slip-up in the ransom note?

  • #101
JMO8778 said:
I think the note refers to the following day,the 27th,as that makes more sense.Then they would have time to get the money and thus an 'earlier' pickup of their daughter if they did.They also wouldn't need to be rested,as they'd just gotten up.
Are you basing the 27th on the "We will call you tomorrow" line? In the IDI theory, it is said that the note was written while the Ramseys were out. Therefore, tomorrow would be the 26th. But whether or not it was written before or after 11:59 p.m. on Christmas, what murdering pedophile foreign faction kidnapper is going to care whether or not John Ramsey is rested, let alone about a proper burial?


-Tea
 
  • #102
icedtea4me said:
Are you basing the 27th on the "We will call you tomorrow" line?
yes,as well as the time needed to get the money,as the line says if they get it earlier,they may get their daughter back sooner.Since most banks don't open until 9am,and the note says they will call between 8-10am,that only leaves an hour after the bank opens to get the money on the 26th.

In the IDI theory, it is said that the note was written while the Ramseys were out. Therefore, tomorrow would be the 26th. But whether or not it was written before or after 11:59 p.m. on Christmas, what murdering pedophile foreign faction kidnapper is going to care whether or not John Ramsey is rested, let alone about a proper burial?
Right on,I think it must refer to the 27th,as they would already be rested from just getting up.So it seems the note points to that day and IMO,the being rested part and not contacting anyone was the R's previous idea of putting off calling police,but letting their grown kids know they wouldn't be going to Charlevoix.Being rested meaning,don't leave the house(in case no one saw them leave the house that day and wondered why..)Whatever excuse they were going to give the big kids for that,I don't know,but the note points to them not saying anything about JB just yet.So they may have been going to say to them.."Look,I can't explain right now,but the trip is off.I'll let you know why later.Just take my word for it for now".I think they wrote the note with the original intent of buying themselves some time(and to cancel the trip),in order to decide what to do next.But just like the speculation of prior staging..they changed their minds and called police right then instead.(I wonder if JR called his lawyer asking for advice on what to do b/f calling police? Simply saying there was a ransom note found for JB,and she was missing when they got up.The phone records disappeared for a reason...)
Either that,or, in the end,it was harder than they thought it was going to be to emotionally cope with knowing their dead daughter was in the house.I think they thought police would find her right away...but when they didn't,JR felt he had to do it himself in the end.
JMO.
 
  • #103
JMO8778 said:
Replying to this post and the previous one..have you read any books on the case? I would really recommend reading 'JonBenet' by Steve Thomas,first.He was a leading investigator on the case.An explanation for SBTC is in there...one that I think is likely to be right.
As for the so-called ransom note..again,look to this book...it fits Patsy's personality perfectly...it's a "Hollywood-ized ransom note".It's over the top...just like she was.I suspect hubby John dictated parts of it to her as well.."listen carefully...." sounds like a dictation...'read this carefully' does not.But the author didnt write that.
Also listen to Jeff Merrick's interview..I wish I had the link.Anyone know where that is? He talks about the fact he thinks JR wrote parts of it to incriminate him.That sounds likely.
Please look at all the evidence first,before concluding that it wasn't the Ramseys..I beleive it was one or both parents.There is nothing to indicate an intruder.The R's behavior has guilt written all over it.
As for the note,I think Patsy wrote it with her left hand to disguise her handwriting.24 out of 26 letters matched.Someone has the link here, but they pointed out that esp. her q's are a big giveaway on that.
here is the Merrick interview

http://dimwit.byethost5.com/jeff%20merr
 
  • #104
haypaula said:
I don't believe the Ramsey's had anything to do with JonBenet's murder. Thomas' ridiculous claim that Patsy killed her daughter because she wet the bed defies logic, and the evidence and COD do not support his theory.
In the summer of '98, Dr. Hodges released his book about how JonBenet's death was the result of Patsy's hidden stress of her cancer returning and coming across sexual abuse. The months and years passed. Not a peep from the Ramseys regarding this theory. Steve Thomas releases his book on April 11, 2000 with his theory about how Patsy killed JonBenet because she wet the bed. A mere fifty days later on Larry King Live, John Ramsey tells Steve Thomas "We're going to sue you". If the Ramseys had nothing to do with JonBenet's death, then why didn't they also go after Hodges?


-Tea
 
  • #105
There has been so much written about the JBR case. Has the actual ransom note ever been on the net in full? What about a complete letter written by Patsy side by side? If so, does anyone have a link?

Anybody got that PDF side-by-side handy?

Profiling is a taboo word in the mouths of a police department, but it is exactly what I am attempting to do based on the ransom note.

FBI beat you to it: a 40-year-old Southern woman

According to THS' account of the Ramsey murder, Jonbenet received a blow to the head after suffering strangulation.

Fraid not. Head blow ten to 60 minutes before being strangled.

Thomas' ridiculous claim that Patsy killed her daughter because she wet the bed defies logic, and the evidence and COD do not support his theory.

Would you like to see a numbered, cross-referenced list?

In the summer of '98, Dr. Hodges released his book about how JonBenet's death was the result of Patsy's hidden stress of her cancer returning and coming across sexual abuse. The months and years passed. Not a peep from the Ramseys regarding this theory. Steve Thomas releases his book on April 11, 2000 with his theory about how Patsy killed JonBenet because she wet the bed. A mere fifty days later on Larry King Live, John Ramsey tells Steve Thomas "We're going to sue you". If the Ramseys had nothing to do with JonBenet's death, then why didn't they also go after Hodges?

Terrific question.
 
  • #106
haypaula said:
I believe John Mark Karr is connected, to some degree, with JonBenet's murder.

His handwriting, albeit 20 years ago, is very similar to that of the person who penned the ransom note. I also cannot dismiss the coincidence re the signing of the note with the letters SBTC, and the fact that JMK signed a schoolmate's yearbook claiming "I Shall Be The Conqueror". Even if JMK wasn't physically present to witness JonBenet's murder, the murderer/s might have videotaped it, and JMK somehow got a copy of it - Hence his statement "I was with JonBenet when she died".

Haypaula makes several good points about Karr and I'd like to add a couple.

(1) His handwriting from a 20 yr old h.s. yearbook,
(2) SBTC could mean something like "Shall Be The Conqueror".
(3) May have had pics, video, or something, felt he was there.
(4) Someone suicided Helgoth who may have been "the" killer, or one of...
(5) The "shabby" Santa bear found in JBR's room after the murder was not the one given to her at a pageant. The pageant one was white. The shabby one resembled a pic of Karr's own childhood Santabear. So he really may have been one of those present when she was killed.

I think all 5 of these points warrant consideration and remembering, although the DNA didn't match. That simply means he had to be with someone else.

I don't know if Helgoth's death means he was also there. Maybe. I don't suppose Karr has an alibi for that date. Wasn't it about Feb. 14, 1997? As usual, this is not my fave theory. I'm open to all of them and don't have a favorite that I'd try to prove.
 
  • #107
IMO,I don't think SBTC stands for 'shall be the conquerer' ...in that case why wouldnt he have signed it ISBTC? That makes more sense.But just 'shall be the conquerer?' I think it's just a coincidence.
 
  • #108
JMO8778 said:
IMO,I don't think SBTC stands for 'shall be the conquerer' ...in that case why wouldnt he have signed it ISBTC? That makes more sense.But just 'shall be the conquerer?' I think it's just a coincidence.

Maybe so. I just listed it because after all it was mentioned.

In fact, maybe he knew acronyms are usually four letters. And maybe not.
 
  • #109
Eagle1 said:
Haypaula makes several good points about Karr and I'd like to add a couple.

(1) His handwriting from a 20 yr old h.s. yearbook,
(2) SBTC could mean something like "Shall Be The Conqueror".
(3) May have had pics, video, or something, felt he was there.
(4) Someone suicided Helgoth who may have been "the" killer, or one of...
(5) The "shabby" Santa bear found in JBR's room after the murder was not the one given to her at a pageant. The pageant one was white. The shabby one resembled a pic of Karr's own childhood Santabear. So he really may have been one of those present when she was killed.

I think all 5 of these points warrant consideration and remembering, although the DNA didn't match. That simply means he had to be with someone else.

I don't know if Helgoth's death means he was also there. Maybe. I don't suppose Karr has an alibi for that date. Wasn't it about Feb. 14, 1997? As usual, this is not my fave theory. I'm open to all of them and don't have a favorite that I'd try to prove.
I have heard that Helgoths death was not a suicide that it'd been pretty impossible to shoot himself where he did with the hand he did etc. So....maybe just a thought was Helgoth a Scapegoat that didn't work to clear the Ramseys?
 
  • #110
JMO8778 said:
IMO,I don't think SBTC stands for 'shall be the conquerer' ...in that case why wouldnt he have signed it ISBTC? That makes more sense.But just 'shall be the conquerer?' I think it's just a coincidence.

On Fox just now they were discussing the case, and both TH's agreed there are many valuable clues in that ransom note and also new technology to analyze it.

One thing pointed out was whoever wrote that note knew alot about John Ramsey, as to the bonus dollar amount and that SBTC are the initials of a base where John Ramsey was stationed.

I think Haypaula has some good thoughts, and the last I heard is that Karr is still a POI in some capacity in JB's case. Knows who really killered her, etc. But I also have felt that Christmas Santa Bear that HP refers to is the one in the photo with Karr and think it is likely he could have been there when she died.

I wonder if they ever analyzed this bear forensicly? I know it was asked to be delivered from the evidence file for study at the end of the Karr fiasco. Just never heard if it was done. If not, it could be one big reason why Karr is not off the hook yet and why the DA now wants a new investigator on the case!

Scandi
 
  • #111
scandi said:
On Fox just now they were discussing the case, and both TH's agreed there are many valuable clues in that ransom note and also new technology to analyze it.

One thing pointed out was whoever wrote that note knew alot about John Ramsey, as to the bonus dollar amount and that SBTC are the initials of a base where John Ramsey was stationed.

I think Haypaula has some good thoughts, and the last I heard is that Karr is still a POI in some capacity in JB's case. Knows who really killered her, etc. But I also have felt that Christmas Santa Bear that HP refers to is the one in the photo with Karr and think it is likely he could have been there when she died.

I wonder if they ever analyzed this bear forensicly? I know it was asked to be delivered from the evidence file for study at the end of the Karr fiasco. Just never heard if it was done. If not, it could be one big reason why Karr is not off the hook yet and why the DA now wants a new investigator on the case!

Scandi
I think personally Karr is as bogus as bogus gets. Thats my opinion. But I expect the Ramsey team will try to get as much milage out of this as they can for as long as they can. I mean think about it. He confesses but they let him go. His interest in the JonBenet case was fame....he never gave any details that were not common knowledge.
 
  • #112
. . . except for the Santa Clause Bear!

I was surprised they let him go and then continue to consider him as a POI. It has to be due to someone else he knew at the time of her death. She was in that beauty contest in Atlanta a month or two before she was killed, and he could easily seen her photo at that time. Several coincidences, but they might just be that.

I still want to know more about that bear! Scandi
 
  • #113
scandi said:
. . . except for the Santa Clause Bear!

I was surprised they let him go and then continue to consider him as a POI. It has to be due to someone else he knew at the time of her death. She was in that beauty contest in Atlanta a month or two before she was killed, and he could easily seen her photo at that time. Several coincidences, but they might just be that.

I still want to know more about that bear! Scandi

You're the first one who's conveyed to me that she was in an ATLANTA pageant. As a pedophile, he surely was there! I'm sure I'd heard where it was held before but just hadn't connected it with Karr. We agree with all the others that he's a nut, right? But still he could have been there and very well may know who really killed her. But they'd kill him, like Helgoth, if he told. May even do it "just in case" he decides to talk to get more attention.

That makes me even more certain that probably he brought his childhood bear to the Ramsey house that night to give to her, probably thinking she would be in love with him, they were soulmates, and like that.

In case anyone forgot, the bear given to her at a pageant was white.
 
  • #114
Hi Eagle,

She was in the Little Miss Sunburst Pageant in October 1995 that was held in the outskirts of Atlanta Ga.

We discussed this quite a bit on one of the Karr threads, and Karr was living in Atlanta at the time.

I bet him and his pedo cronies were all hunkered down in the back row with coats over their laps! :eek: Wouldn't put it past him. :rolleyes:

Scandi
 
  • #115
I bet him and his pedo cronies were all hunkered down in the back row with coats over their laps! :eek: Wouldn't put it past him. :rolleyes:

Scandi[/QUOTE] :silenced: ... :sick:
 
  • #116
I think you've hit the nail right on the head, Scandi and Sweetmop. Guess I wasn't interested in Karr at the time, until finding out about the bear, and that the pageant one had been white.
 
  • #117
scandi said:
...

One thing pointed out was whoever wrote that note knew alot about John Ramsey, as to the bonus dollar amount and that SBTC are the initials of a base where John Ramsey was stationed.


...
Scandi


John was at Subic Bay Naval Base (SBNB).
 
  • #118
Chrishope said:
John was at Subic Bay Naval Base (SBNB).
More specifically, Subic Bay Training Center (SBTC)
 
  • #119
coloradokares said:
I think personally Karr is as bogus as bogus gets. Thats my opinion. But I expect the Ramsey team will try to get as much milage out of this as they can for as long as they can. I mean think about it. He confesses but they let him go. His interest in the JonBenet case was fame....he never gave any details that were not common knowledge.
Yea,I think the R's and Co. are just using him to have someone to cast suspicion on...so his name will go down in history and in the books and encyclopedia's of the future,and ppl will always wonder or get the idea that he did it or may have done it,or was there or had something to do with it,when in fact he's just a schmuck they're using to help clear their name.
 
  • #120
So....maybe just a thought was Helgoth a Scapegoat that didn't work to clear the Ramseys?

In a word, yep.
 

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