A slip-up in the ransom note?

[Eagle1]

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Tea, thanks for looking up the passage in St, when it's almost Christmas Eve and everyone's so busy. There seems to be more traffic than I've ever seen before.

I'm assuming Thomas and the other guy had seen the pictures in the manilla envelope or folder before, or they wouldn't have been so surprised to see this one fall out, and whoever told us about it must have been assuming the same thing. If you read a bit farther, doesn't he state that the dictionary had not been there when the crime scene was processed?

Naturally I'm not saying whoever may have planted it there was the killer, maybe just an impatient crooked cop wanting to close the case faster, or, who knows, "if, if, if" a lot of people were involved he could have been one, borrowing the "if, if, if" expression invented by Camper, and hoping she doesn't mind.

I understand your having the impression maybe the R's were the only ones guilty and that maybe they subconsciously wanted to get caught, but, no, sorry, I don't get the same impression. I just have this gut feeling quite a few people were invovled and that police knew about it, even in advance. Can't prove it, at least not yet, but there's just too many strange things about their "friends" and Boulder culture.

For instance, pagans held ceremonies out in the hills, we heard years ago, and JR and a couple of friends went for a short walk in that direction, where someone had him allegedly saying "I'm sorry' I'm so sorry."

We all always have some guilt feelings such as "Was there something I could have done?" as one of the stages of grief, and some keep beating themselves up over it the rest of their lives whenever they're missing them. If one of the guys was chiding him about the exposure they gave JonBenet, I'm sure it really really cut him to the quick and he wished he'd paid more attention to what Patsy was doing. Not sure it was very kind-hearted of the person to say so, but I'm avoiding judging anyone, to stay up here on the fence post.

 

[BBB167893]

Great comparison work between rn and patsy's exemplers. The letter "q" nails it for me, who else writes "q"s like that?

Nobody I know.

 

[icedtea4me]

For instance, pagans held ceremonies out in the hills, we heard years ago, and JR and a couple of friends went for a short walk in that direction, where someone had him allegedly saying "I'm sorry' I'm so sorry."

And if there's anyone naturally prone to committing a murder, it would be a pagan, right?


-Tea

 

[coloradokares]

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Tea, thanks for looking up the passage in St, when it's almost Christmas Eve and everyone's so busy. There seems to be more traffic than I've ever seen before.

I'm assuming Thomas and the other guy had seen the pictures in the manilla envelope or folder before, or they wouldn't have been so surprised to see this one fall out, and whoever told us about it must have been assuming the same thing. If you read a bit farther, doesn't he state that the dictionary had not been there when the crime scene was processed?

Naturally I'm not saying whoever may have planted it there was the killer, maybe just an impatient crooked cop wanting to close the case faster, or, who knows, "if, if, if" a lot of people were involved he could have been one, borrowing the "if, if, if" expression invented by Camper, and hoping she doesn't mind.

I understand your having the impression maybe the R's were the only ones guilty and that maybe they subconsciously wanted to get caught, but, no, sorry, I don't get the same impression. I just have this gut feeling quite a few people were invovled and that police knew about it, even in advance. Can't prove it, at least not yet, but there's just too many strange things about their "friends" and Boulder culture.

For instance, pagans held ceremonies out in the hills, we heard years ago, and JR and a couple of friends went for a short walk in that direction, where someone had him allegedly saying "I'm sorry' I'm so sorry."

We all always have some guilt feelings such as "Was there something I could have done?" as one of the stages of grief, and some keep beating themselves up over it the rest of their lives whenever they're missing them. If one of the guys was chiding him about the exposure they gave JonBenet, I'm sure it really really cut him to the quick and he wished he'd paid more attention to what Patsy was doing. Not sure it was very kind-hearted of the person to say so, but I'm avoiding judging anyone, to stay up here on the fence post.

Boulder Colorado is indeed a liberal bastion but to say we are weird in the way that contributes to a little girls death in such a manner is just not so nor is it the track record of Boulder. Their friends were very much normal uppercrust Top drawer. So don't blame the friends or Boulder. What you can point the finger to Boulder for is the questionable way the Ramseys were handled with kid gloves and the hesitancy of the prosecutorial branch to prosecute a crime not plea bargain it. If this had happened in Denver. Ramseys would have been separated interrogated at length down at headquarters within the hour of the body being found. Crime scene secured and charges filed most likely not long after. That is just the facts of it. Ramseys had a lot of decent caring friends. They did not do this to JonBenet. And this Pagan in the woods thing. I may lead a sheltered existence.....but I have yet to hear of it.

 

[Eagle1]

And if there's anyone naturally prone to committing a murder, it would be a pagan, right.....?-Tea

Oops, Tea, I certainly wasn't aiming at anyone! Just repeating speculation boards went through years ago. Had no thought of anything personal.

We do have Bog Man, Lindow Man and others found in bogs I'm just too shopped-out this Christmas Eve to specifically remember.

Not saying the ceremonies are still exactly the same. They probably change from time to time. Maybe better, maybe worse. Most of us just don't know anything about this except what can be found out by googling. I read that they used to thank a Christmas tree for sacrificing itself before cutting it down. As we do our military dead who got sacrificed but of course didn't mean to, and doesn't it sometimes seem that's a bit arrogant of us? But I digress.

McReynolds' Celtic harp with notches for his little "friends" who'd already passed on has run bells with some people, no getting around that. He may not have been the only one. I keep wondering exactly what all the "friends" had in common that drew them together.

Didn't say they killed JonBenet. We can't know. And we can't just take the family's word for it that they were the only ones in the house.

Many could have been somehow involved, including police, and the propagandists in other states, without actually being in the house. Maybe that's another reason they treated the R's with kid gloves; they knew.

They also let S. Stine turn them away from investigating that 911 call. The whole group of "friends" got the kid glove treatment, not just the family.

Why? That is the question. Sure sounds like they felt, "We're all in this together". somehow. Quite a mystery.

It's Christmas Eve. Merry Christmas, Everyone.

 

[RobertSand]

I've been reading through all of your theories with some interest. Would like to open my own theories to the forum for critque and discussion.

I read a copy of the ransom note on the Smoking Gun. My suggestion? The DA's office would do well to peruse the yearbooks circa 1996 for all area prep and high schools. To point in a general direction, the dictation of the letter is juvenile (at best!). It is typical work of something you would expect from a junior or senior grade student. I can't give conclusive fact, but I can attempt paint a premise to build on.

1. This is no ransom note! It is only a ransom note by definition because it demands a payment in lieu of an exchange. The truth... this is a formal letter. It open with a salutation, continues on into constructed paragraphs, and ends with a closing and title. Obviously, this point is not intended to be incriminating; we all write in this standard format that we learn in our high school classes. But, this "ransom note" comes just short of beginning with "Dear Mr. Ramsey," and closing with "Best Wishes,".
2. The length of the letter. This is an amatuer's mistake. It goes on for 3 pages, and is riddled with indecisiveness. It's moody. It begins formally; but by the end, it is screaming off of the page. It goes beyond itself to instill a fear; rather than, "get the money and wait for our call."
3. The letter begins with "Mr. Ramsey"; then transitions to "John". This is someone who is moving from a tone of respect toward trying to attain a level of peer(ism). Like the old joke, "Call me John. Mr. Smith is my father." Paperback-psychologically speaking, most young men fall into this transitionary period in their lives. They are just becoming comfortable with the notion of referring to a man on a first name basis.
4. Language. The overall tone of the letter is youthful. It is riddled with pop cliches, and reeks from the influence of English Lit studies - "hence", "adequate", "gentlemen", "faction", "fat cats"... This is pompous language.
5. "Foreign Faction" - Sounds like high society, affluent neighborhood (ie. Boulder) language for a gang. And, if there was a foreign faction involved, why would they go so far as to differentiate between Northerners and "southern"'-ers? Wouldn't a more generic term like "Americans" be more appropriate?
6. Scribbles. Not much to mention here, but shouldn't a ransom demand be short and to the point? Most confessions and junior grade papers are marred by scribbles.
7. "Victory" - The hokiest part of the letter. This is a slogan of rebellious youth.
8. "SBTC" - If this is a gang, or "faction", they probably would identify themselves (possibly by geography). So "B" could stand for Boulder, as in South Boulder Terror Crew or Sons of Boulder Terrorizing Colorado.

I guess my suspicions lean towards juveniles because of the incidents that happened in Colorado and the Rocky Mountain region in the late 90's - Columbine, the gay man beaten to death... Acts performed by disjointed youth.

I would suspect a young boy who may have had an acquaintance to the Ramseys through a parent. He may have been in the Ramseys house as a guest. This would explain how he/they were able to pinpoint the exact location of Jonbenet's room. Also, a dexterous slim body could easily slide through a basement window. This person may have had access to Xmas pictures of Jonbenet undoubtedly sent by Patsy, and may have had a card or correspondence on which to bas ehis forgeries.

 

[RobertSand]

Karr may have been cleared but some of his responses were disturbing (considering his background). The Internet was on the rise in 96, and picture trading was extremely popular. If I remain with my theory of older teens, it's not far off to see a possible... maybe probable... conection being made between Karr and our Boulder students. With a voracious perversion such as Karr's, it's possible to imagine his lust had grown into recruitment, and the Internet was the perfect tool for his device. Especially when it delivers twisted youths who can share pictures of an adolescent beauty queen there family may have received. What pulls at me is Karr's statement that he shared "spiritual connections" with the girls, and "how he was "there when Jonbenet died." Maybe the connection was not physical presence, but a connection to the murder through his relationship (and possibly instigation) of the act. For all accounts, her murder was an accident, as he stated. It's possible he had requested lewd photographs of Jonbenet to be delivered to him. Wouldn't this fit with a pedophile whose perversion is developing into more mastery of his own lusts? It may have been that in their act, the two teens killed Jonbenet, and that is why KArr stated it was an accident. And, without a physical presence, what DNA examinations would he have to fear? All speculative theory, of course.

Again, I would look to a teen (in 96) who had an acquaintance relationship with the Ramseys. It comes without doubt that Patsy Ramsey wrote the household's correspondences (as she was sure to share pictures of her Jonbenet with family and friends). This could be a basis for a mock and amateurish forgery. I would look for someone into photography (possibly on the school newspaper), possibly in Scouts (the resourcefulness of the brush and knot), and given to faking notes for missed attendances. Someone who may have rented movies such as Ransom, Speed, Dirty Harry and Copycat from the local movie rental store. And, someone given to long hours on the Internet in 96. Possibly with an exhorbant telephone bill since dial-up was the mode of connection then. Someone with an AOL account who may have been kicked off for the transfer of lewd files. Maybe someone who had "SBTC" in their AOL account name.

 

[LionRun]

There has been so much written about the JBR case. Has the actual ransom note ever been on the net in full? What about a complete letter written by Patsy side by side? If so, does anyone have a link?

 

[coloradokares]

Oops, Tea, I certainly wasn't aiming at anyone! Just repeating speculation boards went through years ago. Had no thought of anything personal.

We do have Bog Man, Lindow Man and others found in bogs I'm just too shopped-out this Christmas Eve to specifically remember.

Not saying the ceremonies are still exactly the same. They probably change from time to time. Maybe better, maybe worse. Most of us just don't know anything about this except what can be found out by googling. I read that they used to thank a Christmas tree for sacrificing itself before cutting it down. As we do our military dead who got sacrificed but of course didn't mean to, and doesn't it sometimes seem that's a bit arrogant of us? But I digress.

McReynolds' Celtic harp with notches for his little "friends" who'd already passed on has run bells with some people, no getting around that. He may not have been the only one. I keep wondering exactly what all the "friends" had in common that drew them together.

Didn't say they killed JonBenet. We can't know. And we can't just take the family's word for it that they were the only ones in the house.

Many could have been somehow involved, including police, and the propagandists in other states, without actually being in the house. Maybe that's another reason they treated the R's with kid gloves; they knew.

They also let S. Stine turn them away from investigating that 911 call. The whole group of "friends" got the kid glove treatment, not just the family.

Why? That is the question. Sure sounds like they felt, "We're all in this together". somehow. Quite a mystery.

It's Christmas Eve. Merry Christmas, Everyone.

I have to respectfully disagree. NONE of the friends could have been involved. If you play Santa enough years you'll meet children that inevitably pass. Some were from cancer. That is hard to hold Mc Reynolds suspect for. Stines. Well now if there was a direction to look. They are the only ones who stuck by the Ramseys through it all. Even moved to Atlanta and MI with them. Susan Stine showed her colors when she played the email game and got caught at that. The Friends hardly got kid glove treatment. They got investigated as throughly if not more so than anyone. We do not agree I respect your view point but feel I must say to present it as the friends and the Ramseys were all in it together somehow is just not how it was. The Ramseys pointed the finger and flug mud hoping anything would stick. That cost them alot of friendships. However your entitled to your thoughts on it all.

 

[JMO8778]

Karr may have been cleared but some of his responses were disturbing (considering his background). The Internet was on the rise in 96, and picture trading was extremely popular. If I remain with my theory of older teens, it's not far off to see a possible... maybe probable... conection being made between Karr and our Boulder students. With a voracious perversion such as Karr's, it's possible to imagine his lust had grown into recruitment, and the Internet was the perfect tool for his device. Especially when it delivers twisted youths who can share pictures of an adolescent beauty queen there family may have received. What pulls at me is Karr's statement that he shared "spiritual connections" with the girls, and "how he was "there when Jonbenet died." Maybe the connection was not physical presence, but a connection to the murder through his relationship (and possibly instigation) of the act. For all accounts, her murder was an accident, as he stated. It's possible he had requested lewd photographs of Jonbenet to be delivered to him. Wouldn't this fit with a pedophile whose perversion is developing into more mastery of his own lusts? It may have been that in their act, the two teens killed Jonbenet, and that is why KArr stated it was an accident. And, without a physical presence, what DNA examinations would he have to fear? All speculative theory, of course.

Again, I would look to a teen (in 96) who had an acquaintance relationship with the Ramseys. It comes without doubt that Patsy Ramsey wrote the household's correspondences (as she was sure to share pictures of her Jonbenet with family and friends). This could be a basis for a mock and amateurish forgery. I would look for someone into photography (possibly on the school newspaper), possibly in Scouts (the resourcefulness of the brush and knot), and given to faking notes for missed attendances. Someone who may have rented movies such as Ransom, Speed, Dirty Harry and Copycat from the local movie rental store. And, someone given to long hours on the Internet in 96. Possibly with an exhorbant telephone bill since dial-up was the mode of connection then. Someone with an AOL account who may have been kicked off for the transfer of lewd files. Maybe someone who had "SBTC" in their AOL account name.

Replying to this post and the previous one..have you read any books on the case? I would really recommend reading 'JonBenet' by Steve Thomas,first.He was a leading investigator on the case.An explanation for SBTC is in there...one that I think is likely to be right.
As for the so-called ransom note..again,look to this book...it fits Patsy's personality perfectly...it's a "Hollywood-ized ransom note".It's over the top...just like she was.I suspect hubby John dictated parts of it to her as well.."listen carefully...." sounds like a dictation...'read this carefully' does not.But the author didnt write that.
Also listen to Jeff Merrick's interview..I wish I had the link.Anyone know where that is? He talks about the fact he thinks JR wrote parts of it to incriminate him.That sounds likely.
Please look at all the evidence first,before concluding that it wasn't the Ramseys..I beleive it was one or both parents.There is nothing to indicate an intruder.The R's behavior has guilt written all over it.
As for the note,I think Patsy wrote it with her left hand to disguise her handwriting.24 out of 26 letters matched.Someone has the link here, but they pointed out that esp. her q's are a big giveaway on that.

 

[icedtea4me]

I've been reading through all of your theories with some interest. Would like to open my own theories to the forum for critque and discussion.

I read a copy of the ransom note on the Smoking Gun. My suggestion? The DA's office would do well to peruse the yearbooks circa 1996 for all area prep and high schools. To point in a general direction, the dictation of the letter is juvenile (at best!). It is typical work of something you would expect from a junior or senior grade student. I can't give conclusive fact, but I can attempt paint a premise to build on.

1. This is no ransom note! It is only a ransom note by definition because it demands a payment in lieu of an exchange. The truth... this is a formal letter. It open with a salutation, continues on into constructed paragraphs, and ends with a closing and title. Obviously, this point is not intended to be incriminating; we all write in this standard format that we learn in our high school classes. But, this "ransom note" comes just short of beginning with "Dear Mr. Ramsey," and closing with "Best Wishes,".
2. The length of the letter. This is an amatuer's mistake. It goes on for 3 pages, and is riddled with indecisiveness. It's moody. It begins formally; but by the end, it is screaming off of the page. It goes beyond itself to instill a fear; rather than, "get the money and wait for our call."
3. The letter begins with "Mr. Ramsey"; then transitions to "John". This is someone who is moving from a tone of respect toward trying to attain a level of peer(ism). Like the old joke, "Call me John. Mr. Smith is my father." Paperback-psychologically speaking, most young men fall into this transitionary period in their lives. They are just becoming comfortable with the notion of referring to a man on a first name basis.
4. Language. The overall tone of the letter is youthful. It is riddled with pop cliches, and reeks from the influence of English Lit studies - "hence", "adequate", "gentlemen", "faction", "fat cats"... This is pompous language.
5. "Foreign Faction" - Sounds like high society, affluent neighborhood (ie. Boulder) language for a gang. And, if there was a foreign faction involved, why would they go so far as to differentiate between Northerners and "southern"'-ers? Wouldn't a more generic term like "Americans" be more appropriate?
6. Scribbles. Not much to mention here, but shouldn't a ransom demand be short and to the point? Most confessions and junior grade papers are marred by scribbles.
7. "Victory" - The hokiest part of the letter. This is a slogan of rebellious youth.
8. "SBTC" - If this is a gang, or "faction", they probably would identify themselves (possibly by geography). So "B" could stand for Boulder, as in South Boulder Terror Crew or Sons of Boulder Terrorizing Colorado.

I guess my suspicions lean towards juveniles because of the incidents that happened in Colorado and the Rocky Mountain region in the late 90's - Columbine, the gay man beaten to death... Acts performed by disjointed youth.

I would suspect a young boy who may have had an acquaintance to the Ramseys through a parent. He may have been in the Ramseys house as a guest. This would explain how he/they were able to pinpoint the exact location of Jonbenet's room. Also, a dexterous slim body could easily slide through a basement window. This person may have had access to Xmas pictures of Jonbenet undoubtedly sent by Patsy, and may have had a card or correspondence on which to bas ehis forgeries.

It is doubtful a teenager would use periods in any abbreviations (eg F.B.I. vs FBI) and, unless they had classes in journalism, it is also unlikely they would have used a "v" to insert a missing word. The "v" and the "not" weren't added until after the entire sentence had been written, imo. I feel these two things were added after the "r" had been added to "you" to change it to "your".


-Tea

 

[LionRun]

I just read the actual ransom note for the first time. It did strike me that the writer corrected errors (i.e. "V"). I am not sure what to make of it. It did seem that the way the letter was corrected was reminiscent of high school English class.

Additionally, the fact that he/she had the NEED to correct errors, yet didn't seem to care that the note was SLOPPILY written might show things about the personality traits of the writer. It seems the writer re-read his note and made corrections.

The note was addressed formally, and then on the last page he uses, "John" three times. I notice also that he didn't call anyone else by name.

I would be interested to see other examples of known ransom notes. I don't know ow that would do any good. But, I would like to compare them anyway.

 

[julianne]

It is doubtful a teenager would use periods in any abbreviations (eg F.B.I. vs FBI) and, unless they had classes in journalism, it is also unlikely they would have used a "v" to insert a missing word. The "v" and the "not" weren't added until after the entire sentence had been written, imo. I feel these two things were added after the "r" had been added to "you" to change it to "your".


-Tea

A teenager would certainly use periods to indicate an abbreviated word. Using a period to indicate an abbreviation is very, very basic. This is taught very early on in the elementary years. If anything, using periods to indicate an abbreviation may not be done so much now these days, simply because of teens being on the internet and texting so much, i.e., LOL, LMAO, ROTFL, etc. Back in 1996, however, internet usage was still in the early stages & the acronyms weren't in use, and teens weren't text messaging back then.

My fifth grader learned to use a period to indicate an abbreviation a couple of grades ago. My high schooler, who is an average student, uses periods to indicate abbreviations on any papers. It's basic.

 

[julianne]

I've been reading through all of your theories with some interest. Would like to open my own theories to the forum for critque and discussion.

I read a copy of the ransom note on the Smoking Gun. My suggestion? The DA's office would do well to peruse the yearbooks circa 1996 for all area prep and high schools. To point in a general direction, the dictation of the letter is juvenile (at best!). It is typical work of something you would expect from a junior or senior grade student. I can't give conclusive fact, but I can attempt paint a premise to build on.

1. This is no ransom note! It is only a ransom note by definition because it demands a payment in lieu of an exchange. The truth... this is a formal letter. It open with a salutation, continues on into constructed paragraphs, and ends with a closing and title. Obviously, this point is not intended to be incriminating; we all write in this standard format that we learn in our high school classes. But, this "ransom note" comes just short of beginning with "Dear Mr. Ramsey," and closing with "Best Wishes,".
2. The length of the letter. This is an amatuer's mistake. It goes on for 3 pages, and is riddled with indecisiveness. It's moody. It begins formally; but by the end, it is screaming off of the page. It goes beyond itself to instill a fear; rather than, "get the money and wait for our call."
3. The letter begins with "Mr. Ramsey"; then transitions to "John". This is someone who is moving from a tone of respect toward trying to attain a level of peer(ism). Like the old joke, "Call me John. Mr. Smith is my father." Paperback-psychologically speaking, most young men fall into this transitionary period in their lives. They are just becoming comfortable with the notion of referring to a man on a first name basis.
4. Language. The overall tone of the letter is youthful. It is riddled with pop cliches, and reeks from the influence of English Lit studies - "hence", "adequate", "gentlemen", "faction", "fat cats"... This is pompous language.
5. "Foreign Faction" - Sounds like high society, affluent neighborhood (ie. Boulder) language for a gang. And, if there was a foreign faction involved, why would they go so far as to differentiate between Northerners and "southern"'-ers? Wouldn't a more generic term like "Americans" be more appropriate?
6. Scribbles. Not much to mention here, but shouldn't a ransom demand be short and to the point? Most confessions and junior grade papers are marred by scribbles.
7. "Victory" - The hokiest part of the letter. This is a slogan of rebellious youth.
8. "SBTC" - If this is a gang, or "faction", they probably would identify themselves (possibly by geography). So "B" could stand for Boulder, as in South Boulder Terror Crew or Sons of Boulder Terrorizing Colorado.

I guess my suspicions lean towards juveniles because of the incidents that happened in Colorado and the Rocky Mountain region in the late 90's - Columbine, the gay man beaten to death... Acts performed by disjointed youth.

I would suspect a young boy who may have had an acquaintance to the Ramseys through a parent. He may have been in the Ramseys house as a guest. This would explain how he/they were able to pinpoint the exact location of Jonbenet's room. Also, a dexterous slim body could easily slide through a basement window. This person may have had access to Xmas pictures of Jonbenet undoubtedly sent by Patsy, and may have had a card or correspondence on which to bas ehis forgeries.

RobertSand,

I have to say that was a very well-thought out post, and very interesting! You certainly have made sense of many issues with the ransom note with your theory. You bring a unique perspective to the case with your theory, and I think this case is in such dire need of fresh, untainted opinions. There are many people who will steadfastly maintain that the Ramseys did it (RDI) that often they are unwilling to entertain any thoughts that contradict that----not just necessarily here on WS, but everywhere this case is discussed.

Just wanted to let you know that I enjoyed reading your theory, and that many aspects of your post make sense and hold merit. I won't assume that you haven't done any reading up on the case, but if you're just now gathering your information, remember that posts on an forum are not necessarily indicative of fact, even when a link is provided. I know it should go without saying, but there have been times I have asked (not necessarily here) for info to be backed up with a link, and I get linked to a post on another forum!! No joke! Welcome to WS, and keep your mind open....

 

[icedtea4me]

In 1996, was "we do not (inserted) particularly like you" teenage slang for "We hate your ****in , you mother ****er"? (I fully expect this will be cleaned up by any profanity censors.)

And why would an intruder write "...I advise you to be rested" when they knew they were going to be carrying out their deed after everyone was asleep? Wouldn't John and Patsy have already been rested by the following morning when the note was found?


-Tea

 

[JMO8778]

And why would an intruder write "...I advise you to be rested" when they knew they were going to be carrying out their deed after everyone was asleep? Wouldn't John and Patsy have already been rested by the following morning when the note was found?


-Tea

I think the note refers to the following day,the 27th,as that makes more sense.Then they would have time to get the money and thus an 'earlier' pickup of their daughter if they did.They also wouldn't need to be rested,as they'd just gotten up.
I suspect the R's thought about not calling police right away,thus the threats of not talking to anyone, and the need to be rested..ie...dont go anywhere that day.They needed some excuses and time to carry out their plans.I suspect their original intent was to have an excuse to tell the big kids they couldnt make the trip that day,and then try to figure out what to do next.

 

[Eagle1]

RobertSand,

I have to say that was a very well-thought out post, and very interesting! You certainly have made sense of many issues with the ransom note with your theory. You bring a unique perspective to the case with your theory, and I think this case is in such dire need of fresh, untainted opinions. There are many people who will steadfastly maintain that the Ramseys did it (RDI) that often they are unwilling to entertain any thoughts that contradict that----not just necessarily here on WS, but everywhere this case is discussed. .....

Welcome to WS, and keep your mind open....

Same here. Thank you for numbering your fresh thoughts. RpbertSamd.

I'd like to add just a little to what Julianne says about forum habits. (1) Our RDI's (I call myself an FS, and there are IDI's, I'm sure you've noticed.) insist the R's were slinging mud when they were ASKED BY POLICE who they would suspect. Depending on what weird activities the "friends" may have been habitually involved in, probably any of us IN THEIR SHOES would suspect them all. "Birds of a feather flock together", and Stine was just one of them. (2) Even if McReynolds regularly played Santa in pediatric wards, which we have no clue, source, that he ever did, that would NOT explain his keeping a Celtic harp with notches on it for a lot of dead kids. We know about Bog Man, Landau Man, and other Celtic sacrifices, just don't know if child sexual abuse would be in that same category, if others besides him were also in that cult and/or others.

Back when we used to google satanists, pedophile rings, pagans, etc., I remember there were sometimes statements that higher ups in PD's were somtimes involved, or that the problem was just too big to handle. Pictures of SOME of the friends at the party on the 23rd looked pretty normal, but the BPD must have known SOMETHING, or I think they would have gotten a warrant instead of accepting whatever S. Stine said and did. That was VERY odd. And Stine was just one of the birds flocking together.

There are allegedly so many cults in Boulder that church people probably could have dual memberships, could belong to strange cults too. What do you think?

Tea makes a good point too, I'm sure you'll agree. What are your thoughts about that term "well-rested"?

 

[RobertSand]

I'm only familiar to the case by media reporting and the Smoking Gun's posting of the "ransom note". I have tried to steer clear of the exclusive details because many times they lead down empty paths or are unubstanstantiated claims. I have chosen to stick to the accepted facts of JBR's murder and build my profile based on these facts. Although I have alluded to a possible connection between Karr and our murderer(s), I find proving conspiracies as the ultimate deathblow to an investigation. 'Conspiracies' should only come secondary to solving the riddle of the murder since they are more difficult to prove/solve than the murder itself. (As in, prove aliens landed in Roswell before you make accusations of a government cover-up.)

Profiling is a taboo word in the mouths of a police department, but it is exactly what I am attempting to do based on the ransom note. To offer a scripted sketch based on the language of the note & attempting to answer the questions we all must have after reading it. That, and to open up probabilities to this entertaining forum that may shoot holes into my own theories. To ask questions that may help me find answers because I think a collective organization of well-interested people (such as yourselves) may be the Sherlock Holmes of the 21st Century.

I tend to believe the author of the note was a teenager and a male. (That's separate from saying the murderer; one step at a time). To briefly recap my ideas:

1. "Victory" is a term of rebelliousness.
2. Movie cliches. I apologize for not being able to provide the sight, but there is one out there that tied much of the language of the note to Ransom, Dirty Harry and Speed ("Don't go trying to grow a brain.")
3. The transition from "Mr. Ramsey" to "John".
4. The length and moodiness of the letter. They/He shifts from control in their temper (possibly control based on having movie cliches to rely on) to outraged anger (count the number of exclamation points.) This loss of control and tantrum-throwing is evident in most upper teenaged boys.
5. Reference to him/themselves as a "faction" and assigning a riddling acronym to him/them self.

Now to add a few more points:

6. The fact that a rough draft was offered as the completed letter/product. It is marred with mistakes and compensation by the author. The insertions of words using a carat, the scribbles,... Like a term paper being written at the last minute hoping for a "C+" at best.
7. Punctuation. In total, the author uses exclamation points, a carat, an acronym and decimal place values in the letter. I know there is no standard given in school in the formalities of writing a ransom note, but the indeciveness of the author is shown when he/they switch from the use of decimal and place values to not using them.

Now here is a question I pose to the forum becaus eit spins around in my head:

WAS THE RANSOM NOTE PLACED (BEFORE/AFTER/AT THE SAME TIME) AS THE OCCURENCE OF THE MURDER?

******
ABout the murder...

According to THS' account of the Ramsey murder, Jonbenet received a blow to the head after suffering strangulation. If this is true:

It's very possible her murder was an accident or performed by an individual(s) who had nevere murdered before. Not all modes of murder are set in stone; but I would imagine that if asphyxiation was the perversion of the murderer, then there would have not been any follow-up blow to the head. I know this is based on personal experience (which I will share momentarily), so this thoery is constructed on wet paper (it rips easily).

My personal experience: I work doing pest control. I am new to it by six months. Roughly four months in, I am checking the traps we have set out on our premises. I smell an odor at the bottom the hill, and as I approach I am horrified by the shape of blak and white fur clumped by one of our traps. I hesitate to approach; I toss a rock at it to maintain my distance yet tell me of the mortality of the creature. My answer: the skunk is still alive. Its' neck has been snapped over by the metal trap but the force was not enough to kill the animal. It has sprayed itself for some time; it is clutching weakly at the metal bars. It has been here in this struggle for some time. I can't release it; I haven't tamed my fear enough to put my hands anywhere near its head to release the spring mechanism. I rationalize rabies from a bite, but it's just more that I am ill from knowing what I have to do. I find a 2x4 and end the creature's presumed misery.

It was cruel and rationalized on my part; at the time, it was the only solution apparent to me. It's a dramatic retelling of a personal experience, true; but after working behind a desk for 10+ years, I hadn't developed the intestinal fortitude for the disposal of small furry rodents. Whic leads me into the murder of JBR. If death by stragulation was her intended death, I doubt the possibilities of a follow-up blow. Historically, a blow to the head in spite of the deed is viewed on as merciful. Like the Japanese samurais who would behead another in the act of suicide. It is seen as a way of ending the pain and suffering of another. In this case, the blow to JBR's head may have been performed to end her suffering... suffering that came during an "accidenal" (as Karr reminiscd in his statement) strangulation or seizure taking the child.

This is a murderer who was premature... who lacked the patience to get JBR out of the house to perform any intended act. A murderer who compounded their heinous crime with the unwise and irrational decision of murder as a final solution. A murderer who feared JBR would be able to identify him/them if she recovered; thus leading to the decision to murder.

The ransom note is all fun and games. That's why I think it was written a day or 2 before the crime. It only intends to kidnap JBR. It attempts power and elevating one's self to the level of a millionaire like John Ramsey. *** Let's not forget his social status in all of this. It has gotten lost by the distance of television and the Internet. This is a very rich man who married a beauty queen. If he was your boss (regardless of your age), you would be nervous with sweaty palms if he engaged you in a conversation(prior to JBR's murder) AND you most definitely wouldn't call him "John". *** The note refers to JR on a note of familiarity, but it transitions (from "Mr. Ramsey" to "John"). In no way does this fun-and-games note come close to matching the seriousness nor disjointed rationality behind JBR's murder.

That is why I ask when was the ransom note placed, before or after? Because if it was placed before the occurence of the mrder, then this is someone who lost control of their well-laid plan. This is someone who went to the moody extreme of resolving a sickeningly real situation by their own desperate means. All fitting the profile of a disgruntled, out-of-touch, uncaring teenage boy on the verge of his 20's.

 

[RobertSand]

Tea

Thanks for the response.

Re: Acronyms with Periods

Remember, we're just coming out of the early 90's with this crime. Look at the timeframe and popculture. I hate to put it so bluntly at you because I like reading your posts but let me give you some pop culture examples around that time:

N.W.A.
The D.O.C.

Sorry, I just went blank on a lot of ther gangster rap group's monkers, but I think you get the idea.

 

[haypaula]

i believe John Mark Karr is connected, to some degree, with JonBenet's murder. His handwriting, albeit 20 years ago, is very similar to that of the person who penned the ransom note. I also cannot dismiss the coincidence re the signing of the note with the letters SBTC, and the fact that JMK signed a schoolmate's yearbook claiming "I Shall Be The Conqueror". Even if JMK wasn't physically present to witness JonBenet's murder, the murderer/s might have videotaped it, and JMK somehow got a copy of it - Hence his statement "I was with JonBenet when she died".

I've also come to believe that Michael Helgoth was involved in JonBenet's murder and was murdered himself, by his accomplice, to ensure Helgoth would never talk about it.

I don't believe the Ramsey's had anything to do with JonBenet's murder. Thomas' ridiculous claim that Patsy killed her daughter because she wet the bed defies logic, and the evidence and COD do not support his theory.

IMO