Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[StarryStarryNight]

It looks like the Motion the Defense filed is asking to Dismiss all charges against RA. It really is another version of the Franks Memo IMO. According to R&B supposedly LE and the State have taped over interviews done on 2/19/17 of BH and PW.

I would say get the popcorn ready and hang on to your seats folks, this is about to get nasty, but then I remind myself that this is a real case, about real people. 2 beautiful young girls are dead and there is a killer(s) out there that have been free and unpunished for 7 years. That is the sad, hard truth. The families are also being drug through the emotional mud as well.

MOO

Will it never end?

Remember the good ole days, when the defense told the judge they had no intentions of trying this case in public.
They have done nothing but that, and yet have not put forth one thing that exonerates RA. The Franks Motion was nothing but theory and speculation.

From the defense:
—RA is innocent because they say so
—RA is innocent because he is treated worse than a POW in prison
—RA is innocent because he confessed multiple times in prison
—RA is innocent because the judge is a meany
—RA is innocent blah blah blah

They don’t want this tried in court. If they did, we would already have had a trial. The defense would have proudly and confidently walked into court and destroyed everything the State put forward.
They don’t want him tried in court because he’s not innocent and the evidence shows it.
After RA’s arrest, I HOPED RA was the guy but I looked forward to seeing the evidence at trial to prove it. Now, after all the hogwash and delays from the defense I have very little doubt that he is guilty.
The defense has shown that they are not above ignoring the gag order or the protective order. They certainly wouldn’t be above producing a huge reveal of evidence that exonerated their client or painted him in the best light possible. Now look at what they have put out to that end. Nothing.
I guess they realized how that looked so now the problem is evidence that would exonerate RA but they can’t produce it because the prosecution conspired to destroy it. Or…perhaps…it has nothing on it that matters at all in this case.

 

[TL4S]

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So, if recordings through 2/20/17 were lost, who else's statements could be gone? Surely this was only one of many DVR's being used at the time. But what about BB? She must have talked to LE by then because her sketch was made 2/17/17.

If this is true, those were interviews done within the first three days of the investigation. This would be very troubling. Even if only an unintentional, digital error was made, those would have been pivotal statements.

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if Gull has had the nod back channel that the reasons don't say she should recuse.

You'd hope that if SCOIN thought she should go, they would have let her know that or hinted that way in their order. It would seem bizarre for them to let the case run for weeks more when they thought she should go, but then they didn't get round to putting their reasons out.

Sigh.

 

[Ravenmoon]

So, if recordings through 2/20/17 were lost, who else's statements could be gone? Surely this was only one of many DVR's being used at the time. But what about BB? She must have talked to LE by then because her sketch was made 2/17/17.

If this is true, those were interviews done within the first three days of the investigation. This would be very troubling. Even if only an unintentional, digital error was made, those would have been pivotal statements.

If you, or anyone else knows, is it the law that all interviews must be recorded? Or does it only apply to interrogations?

 

[Ward Thisperer]

But, this is nothing new.
It was said from early on ( after RA'S arrest) that Dan Dulin could not account for the recorded interview, and also that the gas station recordings were not available. Why is this being treated like it is all new?

Inquiring minds want to know.

There are multiple new pieces of information brought to support the D argument from the latest discovery they were sent.

1. LE recorded over video interviews of PW & BH from days after the murders.


2. Warrants were obtained to get data from PW & BH’s phones but the results of the warrant haven’t been shared or info as to whether it was served

 

[Emma Peel]

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Am I reading this right?

The LE investigation lost the recordings of all early interviews (feb 2017) of the first obvious persons of interest?

And that LE, early on, asserted in warrants that the religious signs at the crime scene to point to PW's and BH's "religious" group?

And that LE never ordered phone logs on these 2 suspects?

One has to wonder -
When were the taped interview(s) destroyed?
And what pulled attention away from this line of investigation, such that it was dropped?

 

[TL4S]

If you, or anyone else knows, is it the law that all interviews must be recorded? Or does it only apply to interrogations?

I don't know the answer to this, either. What's worse is that I don't even know if LE knows what all interviews were lost from those days. They could have even lost something incriminating to RA, too. Ugh. The poor families...

 

[FrostedGlass]

So now investigators have lost both gas station video footage AND recorded over interviews (without backing them up?!)?!

Defense requests dismissal of Richard Allen charges due to destroyed evidence

This week's motion claims someone destroyed multiple interviews recorded between February 14-20, 2017. These interviews, according to the defense, could play a vital role in proving Allen's innocence

www.wrtv.com

I had to go look that gas station issue up but got called away.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

According to this article from 2019 from the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, it sounds like in Indiana the law is that any interview needs to be recorded for it to be used as evidence incriminating the person who is being interviewed . I hope someone with more knowledge can clarify whether this is still the case or if there are any additional rules about interview recording

NACDL - Indiana - Recording Interrogations Compendium

Information on the policy and history of recording custodial interrogations in Indiana.;

www.nacdl.org

 

[TL4S]

Am I reading this right?

The LE investigation lost the recordings of all early interviews (feb 2017) of the first obvious persons of interest?

And that LE, early on, asserted in warrants that the religious signs at the crime scene to point to PW's and BH's "religious" group?

And that LE never ordered phone logs on these 2 suspects?

One has to wonder -
When were the taped interview(s) destroyed?
And what pulled attention away from this line of investigation, such that it was dropped?

Yes. Item 23:

In more recent discovery, defense also located prepared search warrant application to AT&T for data contained on Brad Holder's and Patrick Westfall's mobile devices. Each application states that Holder/Westfall is "a known member of religious sect, and elements of the Murder have potential religious significance."

I am curious as to who prepared these SWs.

 

[Ravenmoon]

If investigators had absolute proof that both Westfall and Holder were nowhere near The Crime Scene that day, could that be enough for them to have ruled both of them out so they didn't need to keep the recorded interviews?

My issue with any attempts to protect either man is the reasons behind it. Why would they cover for them instead of making a quick arrest and being done 7 years ago?

In my opinion, it doesn't make sense.

 

[Schatz]

But, this is nothing new.
It was said from early on ( after RA'S arrest) that Dan Dulin could not account for the recorded interview, and also that the gas station recordings were not available. Why is this being treated like it is all new?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Now layer on early interviews with BH and PW being overwritten. Poof, gone. Can there really be this many evidence collection/storage errors in such a high profile case where you would think everyone would be being extra careful?

 

[Ravenmoon]

Now layer on early interviews with BH and PW being overwritten. Poof, gone. Can there really be this many evidence collection/storage errors in such a high profile case where you would think everyone would be being extra careful?

Can we believe everything that the defense says though?

 

[TL4S]

Can we believe everything that the defense says though?

This information is coming from the D, but it's quoted from discovery they got from NMcL. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the State responds to this.

 

[sunshineray]

Will it never end?

Remember the good ole days, when the defense told the judge they had no intentions of trying this case in public.
They have done nothing but that, and yet have not put forth one thing that exonerates RA. The Franks Motion was nothing but theory and speculation.

From the defense:
—RA is innocent because they say so
—RA is innocent because he is treated worse than a POW in prison
—RA is innocent because he confessed multiple times in prison
—RA is innocent because the judge is a meany
—RA is innocent blah blah blah

They don’t want this tried in court. If they did, we would already have had a trial. The defense would have proudly and confidently walked into court and destroyed everything the State put forward.
They don’t want him tried in court because he’s not innocent and the evidence shows it.
After RA’s arrest, I HOPED RA was the guy but I looked forward to seeing the evidence at trial to prove it. Now, after all the hogwash and delays from the defense I have very little doubt that he is guilty.
The defense has shown that they are not above ignoring the gag order or the protective order. They certainly wouldn’t be above producing a huge reveal of evidence that exonerated their client or painted him in the best light possible. Now look at what they have put out to that end. Nothing.
I guess they realized how that looked so now the problem is evidence that would exonerate RA but they can’t produce it because the prosecution conspired to destroy it. Or…perhaps…it has nothing on it that matters at all in this case.

I agree with you but the case law says not just intentional destruction of evidence violates RA's right to due process and due course of law, it says destruction of evidence done by negligence does too. I sure hope the Prosecution has some whip-smart tech guys that can attest to it being neither intentional nor negligent just a breakdown of the technology. I can attest that happens in small ways and sometimes in BIG ways, out of the blue and with no warning.

Did you read it to mean that the FBI conducted BH and PW's interviews on Feburary 17th?

 

[sunshineray]

Yes. Item 23:

In more recent discovery, defense also located prepared search warrant application to AT&T for data contained on Brad Holder's and Patrick Westfall's mobile devices. Each application states that Holder/Westfall is "a known member of religious sect, and elements of the Murder have potential religious significance."

I am curious as to who prepared these SWs.

Yeah I saw that too...yikes!

 

[sunshineray]

I had to go look that gas station issue up but got called away.

Wasn't it the FBI that picked that tape up? I could be wrong though.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I like this one a lot; it's similar to: "the dog ate it."

"Due to DVR program error discovered on 9-20-2017 all recordings up to February 20th.
2017, were recorded over. There is no detectible audio found on this drive."

 

[sunshineray]

I like this one a lot; it's similar to: "the dog ate it."

"Due to DVR program error discovered on 9-20-2017 all recordings up to February 20th.
2017, were recorded over. There is no detectible audio found on this drive."

It's going to come down to a program error, no intentional or negligent destruction of evidence or programmer error with negligence and RA may have a good case for dismissal.

So the 12th is going to be new charges and contempt hearing...or is it?

 

[TL4S]

I like this one a lot; it's similar to: "the dog ate it."

"Due to DVR program error discovered on 9-20-2017 all recordings up to February 20th.
2017, were recorded over. There is no detectible audio found on this drive."

First, rumors of KAK looking up the Marathon gas station in Delphi on the day of the murders, but video evidence was lost. Then the CO's interview with RA gets misfiled, and he can't find the recording of it. Next, there are the claims that TLi omitted evidence from the PCA, like witness statements. Now this. The D gets all kinds of accusations of "gross negligence" thrown their way, yet some of these possible negligent acts were occurring since the very beginning and have an even bigger bearing on the case, IMO. This should be of great concern. JMO.