Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[tlcya]

Court is back in session at 1:05 p.m.

At 1:10 p.m. the defense called Brad Heath.

Heath tells the jury he lives just outside Delphi and is 70 years old. He worked for Reliable Exterminators and retired 5 years ago.

Heath says he managed company business for the Delphi area and surrounding spots. He describes doing a job at a company called Anderson’s and the scans of the building he did on Feb. 13 2017. His last scan was at 2:06 p.m.

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi hands Heath a report he requested that shows what Heath did that day at that stop. The report refers to Heath seeing a vehicle at 8:45 a.m. the morning of the murders. He noticed it was in the same location that afternoon. Heath said the car was half-way down the road near the CPS building, parked about two feet off the road.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

I do hope the jury won't have to wade through testimony of every witness who saw a vehicle anywhere in the vicinity of the trails at any point in the day. I imagine that would be a lot of witnesses and a lot of vehicles. JMO

Especially if all they are able to take from that testimony is that other random people were in the general vicinity (we know) and some drove vehicles to get there (also know)

 

[vls12345]

Heath said two FBI agents and one ISP agent came to his house to interview him.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

Rsbm.

Huh. Look at that. Interviewed by LE at his house, not a grocery store parking lot.

Interesting, imo.

 

[Megnut]

Or just another person who can confirm his whereabouts and had reason to be there.

 

[WildHuncher]

I do hope the jury won't have to wade through testimony of every witness who saw a vehicle anywhere in the vicinity of the trails at any point in the day. I imagine that would be a lot of witnesses and a lot of vehicles. JMO

Especially if all they are able to take from that testimony is that other random people were in the general vicinity (we know) and some drove vehicles to get there (also know)

Chaff and drones to blind the RADAR and let the bombers through.

 

[PrairieWind]

So... what's said by RA in these videos is ruled to be hearsay?

No that should not be hearsay. I must be missing something about the context of these videos.

 

[otto]

I asked about the DNA. Presumably the killer shepherded the girls along the trail, had the girls undress to some extent and killed them with one or more sharp objects. A lot of killers cut themselves and leave evidence behind even if there was no SA. Also the bodies were possibly moved/placed so he would have been in contact with them. If he is really impulsive and not meticulous, seems "lucky" for him that there was no DNA. IMO.

The second map is from @m00c0w. It shows the approximate location where the girls were forced to undress prior to crossing the creek. That assault may have lasted 15 minutes. Richard Allen was interrupted by a white van on the road at approximately 2:25 pm. Then he forced the girls across the creek.

Some of their clothes were found in the creek, both on the North and South side. They were either dropped by the girls to leave a trail, or discarded by Richard Allen to increase their vulnerability (IMO).

The first map shows the elevations between the bridge, down the hill to the location of the initial assault, and the elevation registered on Libby's phone between 2:31-2:32. They were murdered approximately one hour later.

Libby's body was moved after she bled out. That is based on the evidence sketch that was shared early on. Point #1 is where Libby bled out. Point #2 is where her body was found. Richard Allen must have handled the bodies, but there is no DNA evidence to prove it.

I agree - he got lucky.

 

[WildHuncher]

That assault may have lasted 15 minutes.

If as I thoroughly believe Muddy Bloody Guy was RA, he spent a long time on the north side of the creek with the girls before setting out for his car. What he was doing, we may never know.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I do hope the jury won't have to wade through testimony of every witness who saw a vehicle anywhere in the vicinity of the trails at any point in the day. I imagine that would be a lot of witnesses and a lot of vehicles. JMO

Especially if all they are able to take from that testimony is that other random people were in the general vicinity (we know) and some drove vehicles to get there (also know)

This was the guy GH did a video on. He should be a pretty important witness.

 

[gremlin444]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

wishtv.com

"At 1:28 p.m. the defense called David McCain. McCain said he lives just outside of Delphi. He says he has lived there 20 years and is 79 years old. McCain says he is a long-time volunteer and was a project manager for the Monon High Bridge Trail.
....
McCain said he was on the trail and bridge on Feb. 13, 2017. He said he got to the trails around 2 or 3 p.m. and parked at the Mears entrance. He said he saw no other cars there and walked to the high bridge. He said he took photos and walked just the beginning of the bridge. McCain said the bridge is 65 feet above the water and you can see it clearly below.

He tells the jury he used a camera, not a phone, to take photos that day. He said he did that for less than a half hour. McCain said he saw a couple while there, he said it could have been before or after he went to the bridge. He said there may have been people off in the distance that he saw, but only passed the couple."

So...got there around 2 OR 3. Saw a couple but didn't remember if it was before OR after he went to the bridge. May or may not have been people in the distance. Used a camera, not a phone to take photos while there.

That's all rather...vague. If it was a digital camera--should be date/time info on each picture (wait, how do date stamps work on digital cameras in regards to DST?). Or is it a film only camera?

I hope further editing/more updates this afternoon fleshes this out.

 

[Vaderman]

If as I thoroughly believe Muddy Bloody Guy was RA, he spent a long time on the north side of the creek with the girls before setting out for his car. What he was doing, we may never know.

Now that we know how he acts under stress, he was probably too busy eating & smearing excrement all over himself. Maybe that wasn't mud that the witness saw...

 

[minazoe]

what I don't understand is...why weren't these confessions taken with more curiosity, like did he wear gloves?
why did he have gloves with him? what was in his pockets? so is this the first time he raped or tried to rape somebody?

because I don't believe that he ever intended to let his victim/victims live, and I want to know who else he has victimized. Not just his sister and whomever Chris is.

I need more. mOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

wishtv.com

"At 1:28 p.m. the defense called David McCain. McCain said he lives just outside of Delphi. He says he has lived there 20 years and is 79 years old. McCain says he is a long-time volunteer and was a project manager for the Monon High Bridge Trail.
....
McCain said he was on the trail and bridge on Feb. 13, 2017. He said he got to the trails around 2 or 3 p.m. and parked at the Mears entrance. He said he saw no other cars there and walked to the high bridge. He said he took photos and walked just the beginning of the bridge. McCain said the bridge is 65 feet above the water and you can see it clearly below.

He tells the jury he used a camera, not a phone, to take photos that day. He said he did that for less than a half hour. McCain said he saw a couple while there, he said it could have been before or after he went to the bridge. He said there may have been people off in the distance that he saw, but only passed the couple."

So...got there around 2 OR 3. Saw a couple but didn't remember if it was before OR after he went to the bridge. May or may not have been people in the distance. Used a camera, not a phone to take photos while there.

That's all rather...vague. If it was a digital camera--should be date/time info on each picture (wait, how do date stamps work on digital cameras in regards to DST?). Or is it a film only camera?

I hope further editing/more updates this afternoon fleshes this out.

Is Dave McCain “flannel shirt guy”?

 

[fred&edna]

No that should not be hearsay. I must be missing something about the context of these videos.

My question stemmed from Post #150 Hearsay was used by the reporter @MassGuy quoted.

ETA: What do you think the videos would have to contain to consider it hearsay ?? And, I'm so glad you're here to explain!!

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209'

Nov 1, 2024

#NEW: We’re on a quick break in the Delphi Murders Trial. The defense team is trying to play videos of Richard Allen during his time at Westville correctional facility to show his mental deterioration. Part of those videos have audio on them.

The prosecution objected to the videos initially on relevance which Judge Gull overruled. They then objected on the basis of hearsay, and she sustained that objection and said the audio from the video cannot be played. They’re now taking a break to figure things out

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852370483053809913

• MassGuy

• 
• 

 

[acutename]

100% Cant agree w/you. acutename said:


I asked about the DNA. Presumably the killer shepherded the girls along the trail, had the girls undress to some extent and killed them with one or more sharp objects. A lot of killers cut themselves and leave evidence behind even if there was no SA. Also the bodies were possibly moved/placed so he would have been in contact with them. If he is really impulsive and not meticulous, seems "lucky" for him that there was no DNA. IMO.
1

____________________________________________________________________________________
I do not think he is innocent. I think maybe he planned out more than he says. But all IMO.

 

[tlcya]

DBM

 

[statt#1]

Is Dave McCain “flannel shirt guy”?

I do believe.

 

[Megnut]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

wishtv.com

"At 1:28 p.m. the defense called David McCain. McCain said he lives just outside of Delphi. He says he has lived there 20 years and is 79 years old. McCain says he is a long-time volunteer and was a project manager for the Monon High Bridge Trail.
....
McCain said he was on the trail and bridge on Feb. 13, 2017. He said he got to the trails around 2 or 3 p.m. and parked at the Mears entrance. He said he saw no other cars there and walked to the high bridge. He said he took photos and walked just the beginning of the bridge. McCain said the bridge is 65 feet above the water and you can see it clearly below.

He tells the jury he used a camera, not a phone, to take photos that day. He said he did that for less than a half hour. McCain said he saw a couple while there, he said it could have been before or after he went to the bridge. He said there may have been people off in the distance that he saw, but only passed the couple."

So...got there around 2 OR 3. Saw a couple but didn't remember if it was before OR after he went to the bridge. May or may not have been people in the distance. Used a camera, not a phone to take photos while there.

That's all rather...vague. If it was a digital camera--should be date/time info on each picture (wait, how do date stamps work on digital cameras in regards to DST?). Or is it a film only camera?

I hope further editing/more updates this afternoon fleshes this out.

Doh.

Pretty much confirms one of yesterday's witness accounts. Only saw one man, old guy with a camera around his neck. They saw him. He saw them. It was probably their potty or smoke break. And after the crimes were committed.

JMO

 

[AugustWest]

No that should not be hearsay. I must be missing something about the context of these videos.

It is an authentication issue and this issue has been a mess this morning due to reporting discrepancies. I included the fact pattern below:

12:25 P.M. Court in session, more discussion of surveillance videos.​

At 11:31 a.m. court is back in session. Defense intern Max Baker is back on the stand. The defense immediately requests a sidebar. The sidebar lasts 10 minutes before the jury is back in the courtroom.

Baker tells the jury there is an issue with the security and camcorder videos of Allen because the prosecution provided them to the defense without the needed time stamps.

Rozzi says “we are dealing with what we were given by the state.”

Judge Gull tells the jury that they will break for lunch until 1 p.m.

Court is in recess at 11:52 a.m.

11:31 a.m. Court back in session, discussion of surveillance videos of Allen.​

At 10:40, court is back in session. There is an immediate sidebar, then the jury enters.

At 10:46 the defense calls Max Baker, who is an intern who works for the defense. He is a graduate of IU and has worked on the case since Nov. 2022.

He tells the jury he heard Harsman’s testimony. Reporter notes that at this point Allen’s wife Kathy leaves the courtroom with three others.

Baker testifies that he has reviewed most of Allen’s phone calls and videos from Westville. He says he was asked to compile video of Allen at Westville and put it on a flash drive. The prosecution is continually objecting.

Baker says the video was given to the prosecution as part of the discovery. He says there are two main video formats, camcorder video and security camera video. The camcorder video is video outside of Allen’s cell and the security video is inside Allen’s cell. The camcorder video has sound, the security video does not.

Baker tells the jury the camcorder video did not have a time stamp, it was just put in folders with general timeline information. He says he tried to piece it together as best as possible.

He explains that the in-cell video on the flash drive is from the 15th of every month from Nov. 2022 to Dec. 2023, aside from April to July of 2023 where there is more video than just on the 15th.

The defense asks to admit the video. The also show spreadsheets that explain the videos by date and time the video was taken.

The prosecution objects and there is another sidebar.

Court is in recess at 11:10 a.m.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[arielilane]

____________________________________________________________________________________
I do not think he is innocent. I think maybe he planned out more than he says. But all IMO.

My apologies, I meant cant argue w/you.

 

[misantha]

I feel like I'm missing the significance of these defense witnesses. David McCain corroborates yesterday's witness' testimony. I thought it was established that she was on the bridge later, and she did not identify the man she saw as BG. Also, isn't DM the same person that DG spoke to when looking for the girls? So based on the timing and testimony, he is not BG or the killer (even if you think someone else killed them). How does this help the defense?