GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #220

[Gemmie]

& putting it mildly. I could probably think of at least 25-50 other words to add.

Only 25-50 other words? You sure have a small vocabulary. (Kidding. Hehehe)

 

[shonyakay]

Actually... this is helping clarify things...

I think we can assume the girls passed him. Otherwise wouldn't have known "he" was behind her. She must have seen the fear in Libby's face.

Abby and Libby had just passed BB when they likely encountered Rick. If he was half-hidden (unless he was relieving himself off the beer the natural way) or aggressive in his mannerisms, IMO they would have tried to get to BB. Safety in numbers, another adult but also maybe he waited to say or do something AS he passed them, so returning to BB would have been less of an option, passing him again.

If they were FEARFUL of him (beyond just creeped maybe), I don't think they would have chosen to trap themselves on the bridge.

I susoect Ricky was on the move, still did something weird, but have every indication that he was LEAVING.

That they were in the bridge, taking photos, makes me think they thought weirdness had left the woods.

Which night be exactly what he wanted them to think. Even with a gun, they'd be much harder to accost on the trails ahead of the bridge. He wanted to make sure they got well across before he barreled foreard after them, knowing they'd have nowhere to go. Evil.

JMO

Imo even if he did nothing, it would be reasonable for the girls to be creeped out, if this middle-aged man they had just passed, that was going in the opposite direction of them, is now gunning at them across the bridge.

I think Abby heard him coming up behind her because when Libby starts recording Abby is still casually walking across the bridge and then her facial expression changes and you can see her pick up her pace. She then pauses, looks up at Libby and asks, "Is he right there?" It sounds like Libby nervously laughs and then she turns away from Abby and the man and appears like she is pretending to narrate a video. Eventually, at the very end of the video you can hear Libby begin to breathe very hard. Her fear is palpable.

 

[INfisherman]

Only 25-50 other words? You sure have a small vocabulary. (Kidding. Hehehe)

Heh - I was trying to be polite & excluding the four letter words & all derivatives of them, otherwise I may have approached 4-5 digits.

 

[Megnut]

Imo even if he did nothing, it would be reasonable for the girls to be creeped out, if this middle-aged man they had just passed, that was going in the opposite direction of them, is now gunning at them across the bridge.

I think Abby heard him coming up behind her because when Libby starts recording Abby is still casually walking across the bridge and then her facial expression changes and you can see her pick up her pace. She then pauses, looks up at Libby and asks, "Is he right there?" It sounds like Libby nervously laughs and then she turns away from Abby and the man and appears like she is pretending to narrate a video. Eventually, at the very end of the video you can hear Libby begin to breathe very hard. Her fear is palpable.

Absolutely this.

The addition I'm highlighting is that Abby knew it was that guy coming up behind her. Which means they had seen him once already. (Therefore he wasn't hiding as they passed by.)

And the fear was already there -- which I attribute to maybe a harrowing combination of simultaneously events (fear in Libby's face, the sound of someone approaching from behind AND the fact that they had just seen/passed him and I believe he gave off creepy vibes, whether or not he also said, did, didn't say or didn't do anything).

I do think they entered the bridge happily, probably confident he was hurriedly moving away from them, therefore leaving.

Monster.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

Absolutely this.

The addition I'm highlighting is that Abby knew it was that guy coming up behind her. Which means they had seen him once already. (Therefore he wasn't hiding as they passed by.)

And the fear was already there -- which I attribute to maybe a harrowing combination of simultaneously events (fear in Libby's face, the sound of someone approaching from behind AND the fact that they had just seen/passed him and I believe he gave off creepy vibes, whether or not he also said, did, didn't say or didn't do anything).

I do think they entered the bridge happily, probably confident he was hurriedly moving away from them, therefore leaving.

Monster.

JMO

They probably got the same unsettling vibes that RV and BW picked up on.

When RV heard later that evening that Libby and Abby were missing she immediately thought of the weird man that she saw at the trails earlier that day.

 

[Megnut]

2 hrs 20 minutes

More reading of LE interviews

Personally I prefer listening over reading them for myself because this way I can multi task.

 

[INfisherman]

TMS goes over the KA interview - about a week old but I feel it’s also a good listen. Both seemed to have shifted their view as far as KA being a victim. Just a bit over 2 hours & includes them both portraying the interviewer & KA.

Basically, what we said during the course of it, I think the image, the picture she paints of her husband is the picture of the man who killed those girls.

Oh, 100 percent.

And there's been a lot of those, the Richard Allen fans have tried to argue that, oh, all this alleged bad stuff, all these alleged terrible things that fit in with this picture, it just came from the police or came from whoever. No, in this case, it's coming from his wife, who presumably knows him better than anyone.

Yeah. People often ask us, how could Kathy Allen not know that her husband was Bridge Guy? And having read this, I have some thoughts on this.

My traditional stock answer has always been, well, we don't know and we've never talked to her and we don't know exactly what she knew and when she knew it, and it's possible that denial is a hell of a thing. Her level of defensiveness and giggling and bizarre behavior and bizarre statements, frankly, throughout this interview, makes me think that we're asking the wrong question. You know, it's not, you know, it's basically like, how could she not have known?

It's basically like, this is someone who is either delusional, completely self-deluded, as in she knows that he did it, but she just can't bring herself to accept that or touch that, so she has to be in some level of denial, or did not want to disrupt her own life, or is uncommonly stupid. So, there's two options. It's stupid or self-denying.

There's no innocent. The only innocence is through stupidity. It's through like just childlike naivete, which frankly, I have no reason to think that this is a stupid woman or a childlike woman or a woman who could be easily manipulated if people bring that to my attention, then fine, we'll look at that.

The Delphi Murders: Kathy Allen's Interview with Police and More

Several court exhibits associated with Richard Allen's defense's Odinism theory have become public. They mostly feature well-trod ground around the debunked...

murdersheetpodcast.com

 

[FromGermany1]

TMS goes over the KA interview - about a week old but I feel it’s also a good listen. Both seemed to have shifted their view as far as KA being a victim. Just a bit over 2 hours & includes them both portraying the interviewer & KA.

Basically, what we said during the course of it, I think the image, the picture she paints of her husband is the picture of the man who killed those girls.

Oh, 100 percent.

And there's been a lot of those, the Richard Allen fans have tried to argue that, oh, all this alleged bad stuff, all these alleged terrible things that fit in with this picture, it just came from the police or came from whoever. No, in this case, it's coming from his wife, who presumably knows him better than anyone.

Yeah. People often ask us, how could Kathy Allen not know that her husband was Bridge Guy? And having read this, I have some thoughts on this.

My traditional stock answer has always been, well, we don't know and we've never talked to her and we don't know exactly what she knew and when she knew it, and it's possible that denial is a hell of a thing. Her level of defensiveness and giggling and bizarre behavior and bizarre statements, frankly, throughout this interview, makes me think that we're asking the wrong question. You know, it's not, you know, it's basically like, how could she not have known?

It's basically like, this is someone who is either delusional, completely self-deluded, as in she knows that he did it, but she just can't bring herself to accept that or touch that, so she has to be in some level of denial, or did not want to disrupt her own life, or is uncommonly stupid. So, there's two options. It's stupid or self-denying.

There's no innocent. The only innocence is through stupidity. It's through like just childlike naivete, which frankly, I have no reason to think that this is a stupid woman or a childlike woman or a woman who could be easily manipulated if people bring that to my attention, then fine, we'll look at that.

The Delphi Murders: Kathy Allen's Interview with Police and More

Several court exhibits associated with Richard Allen's defense's Odinism theory have become public. They mostly feature well-trod ground around the debunked...

murdersheetpodcast.com

That RA in interviews defended his wife, when there wasn't yet something to defend, gave me an uneasy feeling. "Uneasy" , as I don't find the right term atm. I was asking myself "Why does he defend his wife? Does she have anything to do with the (gruesome) matter, other than being his wife?" RA even threatened an officer/the police in a whole re Kathy, if I remember well. I found that suspicious and questionable. MOO

 

[INfisherman]

That RA in interviews defended his wife, when there wasn't yet something to defend, gave me an uneasy feeling. "Uneasy" , as I don't find the right term atm. I was asking myself "Why does he defend his wife? Does she have anything to do with the (gruesome) matter, other than being his wife?" RA even threatened an officer/the police in a whole re Kathy, if I remember well. I found that suspicious and questionable. MOO

It’s anyone’s best guess, IMHO.

I think he’s angry that they’ve intimidated her somehow, made her scared/cry & possibly used something she may have said against him in some way. Bottom line is he inserted himself into this & now they’re looking right at him & he’s unprepared.

He’s lashing back at JH for essentially fingering him for the murders & now JH has involved his enabler, fix Ricky, troll supporter & he’s doing what he thinks will earn him sympathy from her later. "Look what THEY’VE done to ME." Another gun in mouth moment later? He’s preying on her emotions with his puffed up, fake bravery & hollow threats.

Troll always has to announce his intentions & never follows through because he is a small, weak punk with a thing for sweaty feet who needs to look much bigger in the eyes of his enablers. Troll likes to talk too much instead of just being the big short man he’s trying to portray.

Why are there so many little nuances that just seem off with both of them, more & more as more documents get released? Lies & acting likely catching up to them. Hard to rehearse good questions.

All an act - even from his wife. I think I was wrong & she’s known or suspected he was involved much longer than I did a few days ago.

All JMO

 

[otto]

TMS goes over the KA interview -
It's basically like, this is someone who is either delusional, completely self-deluded, as in she knows that he did it, but she just can't bring herself to accept that or touch that, so she has to be in some level of denial, or did not want to disrupt her own life, or is uncommonly stupid. So, there's two options. It's stupid or self-denying.

The Delphi Murders: Kathy Allen's Interview with Police and More

Several court exhibits associated with Richard Allen's defense's Odinism theory have become public. They mostly feature well-trod ground around the debunked...

murdersheetpodcast.com

BBM & RSBM

I have long believed that this is one reason that Richard Allen was not identified earlier: his family "did not want to disrupt her own life".

Using common sense, if we are looking for a family member in a crowd, we rely on certain key factors to identify them. A significant factor is how they walk and carry themselves - gait. Richard Allen has a distinctive gait. Other factors are height, weight and how they typically dress. If we see a video of a family member wearing an odd hat, familiar coat and pants, and walking across a foot bridge, we should know whether it is our family member.

If we know that the family member was at location where the video was taken at the time that the video was taken, we should know that the family member is the man in the video.

If the family member does not want to search for two missing children because he fears he will be blamed for the fact that they are missing, we have three clues that the family member is responsible.

When we see the sketch, although not perfect, there are four clues. At the very least, someone in his family should have reported what they knew. According to recent documentaries about Bundy, his girlfriend reported him to police - which assisted in identifying him. His girlfriend is portrayed as tormented for suspecting him.



When KA was interviewed by police, she initially denied that Richard Allen talked about walking the trails on the day the girls were murdered.


Interview starts on page 154, on page 163 she denies that he discussed being on the trails that day. That was a conscious decision to be dishonest. Why?
link

I suspect that there is a similar problem with identifying the suspect in the Evansdale cousins murders. Someone knows, but that person doesn't want to disrupt their own life.

 

[FromGermany1]

Does KA know, that "her man" doesn't find long black hair attractive, so he mentioned it at least two times and helped KA to relax?? Wrong hair color, wrong hair length, I haven't to think, my man was after this girl in some form. To the contrary, my man found the girl odd/weird and the other 2 girls also. Breathe a sigh of relief. No reason for me, Kathy, to be jealous or suspicious. My man roamed around in the forest/on the trails, but he was apparently well-behaved, thank God.
Were those her thoughts, when he told her about his afternoon fun?

MOO and speculation by me.

 

[FromGermany1]

Btw, I thought, KA had been away from home for a visit at her family. Now I learned, that she was thinking about the time, when she returned to her husband (laying on the sofa), and she mentioned some "closing time" for her own orientation (to get the time right). To me it sounds, as if she thought of the closing time of her workplace at the vet. - I am confused now a bit. A visit or work?

 

[Boxer]

BBM & RSBM

I have long believed that this is one reason that Richard Allen was not identified earlier: his family "did not want to disrupt her own life".

Using common sense, if we are looking for a family member in a crowd, we rely on certain key factors to identify them. A significant factor is how they walk and carry themselves - gait. Richard Allen has a distinctive gait. Other factors are height, weight and how they typically dress. If we see a video of a family member wearing an odd hat, familiar coat and pants, and walking across a foot bridge, we should know whether it is our family member.

If we know that the family member was at location where the video was taken at the time that the video was taken, we should know that the family member is the man in the video.

If the family member does not want to search for two missing children because he fears he will be blamed for the fact that they are missing, we have three clues that the family member is responsible.

When we see the sketch, although not perfect, there are four clues. At the very least, someone in his family should have reported what they knew. According to recent documentaries about Bundy, his girlfriend reported him to police - which assisted in identifying him. His girlfriend is portrayed as tormented for suspecting him.

View attachment 625760

When KA was interviewed by police, she initially denied that Richard Allen talked about walking the trails on the day the girls were murdered.

View attachment 625762
Interview starts on page 154, on page 163 she denies that he discussed being on the trails that day. That was a conscious decision to be dishonest. Why?
link

I suspect that there is a similar problem with identifying the suspect in the Evansdale cousins murders. Someone knows, but that person doesn't want to disrupt their own life.

Yes, MOO it is obvious she knew or heavily suspected. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to prove in a court of law what was in her mind at the time without some evidence. Nut on a common sense level, he said he was at the crime scene at the time, there is a picture almost certainly him on the bridge crime scene, and he said to her they couldn't go help look for the missing girls because they might be suspected of something.
It is not believable she didnt put these things together.
The only thing in her favor is that he went to the police and they never got back him.

 

[otto]

Btw, I thought, KA had been away from home for a visit at her family. Now I learned, that she was thinking about the time, when she returned to her husband (laying on the sofa), and she mentioned some "closing time" for her own orientation (to get the time right). To me it sounds, as if she thought of the closing time of her workplace at the vet. - I am confused now a bit. A visit or work?

She is evasive in answering questions about whether she was at work the day before Valentine's Day. Eventually she settles on the statement that she was at work.

 

[otto]

Yes, MOO it is obvious she knew or heavily suspected. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to prove in a court of law what was in her mind at the time without some evidence. Nut on a common sense level, he said he was at the crime scene at the time, there is a picture almost certainly him on the bridge crime scene, and he said to her they couldn't go help look for the missing girls because they might be suspected of something.
It is not believable she didnt put these things together.
The only thing in her favor is that he went to the police and they never got back him.

Yes, he self-reported, at her request, and gave a statement at a grocery store parking lot.

His wife had years to think about it, years knowing that the man in the video dressed, walked and talked just like her husband. As soon as he opened his mouth at his first police interview, we could hear the similarities between his voice and that of the man in the video.

She had years watching him unravel with erratic behaviour. Not once did she report to police, on her own, that the suspect has too much in common with her husband.

After he confessed, she insisted that prison conditions were causing mental health issues, and that he was innocent and crazy. Not once, when he confessed to her, did she ask him what he was trying to say. She repeatedly shut him down when he confessed.

Agree ... it's not believable that his wife could not put the big picture together, or that she did not always have in the back of his mind that he was most likely the unidentified suspect in the murders.

 

[Megnut]

Notable that she didn't give physical characteristics that might exclude him from the BG image. She said it wasn't him because he wouldn't do something like this.

That isn't an answer!

Fallacious.

Nervous laugh all she wants, she can't eliminate him by height, weight, style of dress, gait, voice, presence at that location at that exact time...

So, if we are to believe her (which we don't), she has the uncanny ability to determine motive/intent from the photo/video, and the BG who isn't her husband because be wouldn't do it is someone who would.

Absurd. But she gives herself away by saying it.

Same way he did. It's not me if it's fin their camera. KA: it's not him because he wouldn't do such a thing AND he told me he didn't go on the bridge.

Oh, OK.

Are we to believe she didn't hear the press conference where LE said, "we may have interviewed you already...."

Nothing have her pause.

You can't see what you won't look at.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

In her interview, when they asked about that day (a day she acted like she never had reason to recall it), she said he was sleeping on the couch when she got home. She was about to say something else but caught herself, the interviewer didn't seem to catch that pause.

I really want to know what she stopped herself from saying.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

It cannot be overstated.

Ricky told KA he didn't want them to search because ...

There'd be too many people
Let LE do their job
And they might get blamed

If Abby and Libby met up with some friends, why would the Allens be blamed?

If bridge boards have out, and the girls fell to their deaths, why would Allen's be blamed?

If the girls got lost, why would the Allen's be blamed?

How did Ricky already know that something blameworthy occurred?

And that never occurred to KA, not even with years of hindsight?

She didn't want it to be Ricky. So she looked no further.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Speculation: KA said she and Rick always did their own thing. Reading WAY between the lines, I wonder if their bedroom was long cooled.... one might wonder, given his mental health crises, if he had performance issues, further cementing for KA that he wouldn't do such a thing, because maybe he couldn't ...

Ricky said he thought the girls were older, didn't R them... in order to make himself not guilty of that, as if it somehow exonerates him. He forced them to undress. That is a sexual assault. He was alone with them for another 14 minutes before crossing the creek. 14 minutes is a long time. He took panties and a sock as trophies. He's right -- he didn't R them. (And no one did, something only the perpetrator could know.) But that doesn't mean he didn't further SA them.

For all we know, he had really low performance self esteem, wanted to be laughed at, humiliated (it's a thing), tied up. He may have a variety of fetishes which fulfill "sensually motivated crime". Yoyeurism, exhibition, feet. He smoked a cigarette.

He is remarkably silent about those 14 minutes. What he didn't do (R) doesn't account for any of those long minutes. It must have been awful because he's not saying.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

OMG

1:45.00

KA talks about THE blue Carharrt. She says he still has it which isn't the smoking gun to me (he'd have every reason to replace it), it's that she's referring to the one he had... she doesn't say "that he was wearing in the photo" but the way she refers to "the" Carharrt is very telling. It's as if she's picturing him that day, in those blue jeans and that Carharrt.

If follows her earlier conversation that it's not him (because he wouldn't do that) and that it could be any man, any day. Yeah, no.

There were very few men out there, across the whole day, and only one at 2:13. Dressed in Richard Allen's clothes.

The Delphi Murders: Kathy Allen's Interview with Police and More

Several court exhibits associated with Richard Allen's defense's Odinism theory have become public. They mostly feature well-trod ground around the debunked...

murdersheetpodcast.com