Found Deceased AL - Kamille "Cupcake" McKinney, 3, kidnapped from party, Birmingham, 12 Oct 2019 *Arrests* #7

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  • #241
Thanks, i haven't followed any of those cases but saw about the Menendez brothers case on T.V. some time ago. And the Manson family is also a very well known case too.
I was wondering more about Trials in the deaths of very young children like KM on this thread.
It's okay i can research it though.
There aren't a lot of child murders with multiple perps.

Defense rests in child starvation murder trial

Defendants in killing of three children to face third trial

3 charged in murder of Tyshawn Lee, 9, set for trial this spring

Mother Accused in Torture Death of Son Flips Off Reporters In Court

Charges against Elwood couple amended to include murder
 
  • #242
Thanks for posting up the links.
I was just researching as to why joint Trials are held also known as Joinders.
It also states factors against them, so i guess in this case we will just have to wait and see.
(quote)
Factors against joint trials
The primary consideration in determining whether a judge has properly joined trials is fairness. Judges typically won’t (or shouldn't) join trials if none of the circumstances above are present. Judges also shouldn't join trials if the codefendants' strategies are antagonistic; in that situation, a joint trial would be unfair. Defensive strategies are considered antagonistic either when

  • each defendant asserts his own innocence and accuses the other of committing the crime, or
  • the judge or jury can’t believe one defendant without disbelieving the other(s).
    Joint Trials for for Codefendants
 
  • #243
You don’t. You might feel compelled to gauge your eyes out.

I still have not recovered from the night we were looking at all that stuff. Seriously.


And not because of your creepy avatar :rolleyes:
Just needed a little :p break
 
  • #244
Oh cry me a freakin' river. The woman had excuses for all of her bad behavior and skipped past the part where she should have admitted her responsibility for her actions. Looking at her criminal record it's clear she never bothered to make those changes in her life that she "promised" the judge she would make.

From the get go what did she do - or rather what did she not do? She didn't report to her probation officer and she didn't pay the court fees. That doesn't sound like someone working hard to better herself. Instead she graduated from burglary to robbery. GMAFB.

IMO people do what they want to do and don't do what they don't want to do. The difference between the DBs of this world and those coming from similar crap backgrounds who actually became better people is that those who made it were willing to work at it. DB chose to steal credit cards and abuse her kids - her own doing and no one else's. Grr. MOO.
Couldn't have said it better!

Without going into too much detail, as this is not about me. I had a very abused childhood, alchol and violence included...my mother committed suicide when I was 12....(I can understand in my older years why)..lived with foster parents....etc etc...

Life in my teens wasn't easy, I made bad choices, but I did better myself to be able to study, maintain good jobs, buy a home with my amazing hubby and raise 2 beautiful children. I was dedicated to make their lives far removed from my childhood...

So, no I don't buy that either, we have choices....we can choose to change...it does take a lot of strength to overcome obstacles in our lives....IMO

DB admitted she had issues....she was aware of it...that's half the battle...so IMO she could have consciously made different choices.

MOO
❤️
 
  • #245
It will be interesting to see if they are tried together or separately. I see them trying to throw blame for KM's death on each other in their trial/s.

I am not sure that having them in court together for this first phase is any indication of whether or not they will be tried together.

I wonder if
Do you know of any other cases in the U.S. where the perps. were tried together at the same Trial? I can't think of any offhand.

Menendez Brothers had separate juries, but they were tried together.
 
  • #246
Just a couple of notes ...

The family of PS have no involvement in his alleged crimes. Please do not sleuth or post about them or any business they may own or be affiliated with.

Also, any discussion of meth use has been removed as there is no known MSM to substantiate it as fact.
 
  • #247
No, you are probably right but it was just so strange to see them sitting together on the bench when it seems likely one is ratting out the other to LE. Just seemed to be odd. MOO

Unless they aren't?, maybe they are both keeping their mouths shut.
 
  • #248
No matter the timing of her death, none of it would comfort anyone, especially her loved ones.

I am grateful, though, that it appears it happened on the same night she was kidnapped. At least the poor sweetheart wasn't subjected to another moment of hell and torture by those two sick varmints from hell. She went through enough, just being kidnapped alone. I can't let myself think too much of what happened after- I don't think they just took her and simply suffocated her, know what I mean?

This angers me. Today, we brought our daughter in for her yearly cancer check- we lost her twin just before birth. How I would have loved her twin to have survived- we are so blessed with our daughter, as well as her older siblings, brother and sister. To lose one child and come close to losing another, due to circumstances beyond our control, just makes me more angry when I see what other children suffer through, at the hands of monsters. My daughter and I talked about Cupcake on the way to the hospital, and she was horrified to hear what happened. She couldn't understand the why's and hows of such perversion, and how PS was let out of prison earlier last week because someone posted bond. Then she heard about DB's incident with her kidnapping at gun point, and she angrily said "why the heck did this lady ever get out of jail? Obviously, if she threatened to kill her own kids, she wouldn't have a problem killing someone elses!"

I have no sympathy or compassion toward either one of them. Sick isn't a strong enough word. No punishment could ever be enough for the hurt and pain they caused not only Cupcake, but her brother and other siblings, her parents, grandparents, etc. Even PS and DB's families are suffering due to their actions. Their actions caused a devastation that is basically world wide- Cupcake has people from all over the world grieving- many of us never met her, but she touched our hearts. I can't imagine how her family is surviving this.
I really felt every word of your post steels, and couldn't agree more. The death penalty or LWOP is the best outcome we can hope for, but it's still a cop out, when you consider what Cupcake must have went through. They still get to live and breathe, and even death is given to them in the most humane way possible. Good old vigilante justice would be most appropriate for me, it still wouldn't bring Cupcake back but it'd sure bring me a little comfort knowing those monsters suffered.

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss of one of your twins steels, I can't imagine how hard that must have been for you, and I hope your daughters cancer check went great. MOO
 
  • #249
“Jackson goes on to detail her childhood which she said included sexual abuse, treatment in mental-health facilities and years spent in foster care.”

Well whaddya know. This was my first inclination as soon as I heard there was a woman involved. Not giving her a free pass BY ANY MEANS, but it seemed logical to conclude imo that something like that may have happened to her.

Do all women who are victims of abuse as a child turn out like this? Of course not. But we do know the cycle of abuse, that often the abused become the abusers.

ETA: This is assuming her assertions of abuse are in fact true, which they very well could be, moo. It would fit a pattern of her possibly collaborating with someone like this, imo.

Morning everyone!

While I agree with most all of what you posted on one thing I do not.

What I respectfully disagree with is when you say 'often' the abused becomes an abuser.

That's simply not true, and we need to recognize that fact.

There are over 6 million children being sexually abused EVERY year so if that was truly a deciding factor... we would see millions of both genders who were sexually abused, become abusers of other children or other various victims.

The overwhelming vast majority of childhood survivors do not become abusers, not only of children, but not against anyone else for that matter.

Now when they do find themselves in the criminal justice system will those offenders, and attorneys use this as an excuse for why they did so? Absolutely. Many will always place blame on others rather than squarely on all of the evildoers themselves. Its the same, yadda yadda, of don't blame ME...blame them. Ugh!

Imo the childhood abuse excuse is used trying to diminish the horrific violence they are charged with doing. This has become almost standard if the defendant is a female offender.

Ever wonder why it's rarely if ever, used as an excuse when the offenders are males even though boys in the millions are also terribly abused ? These excuses predominantly used by females are rarely successful in the trials or in the mitigation phases either, rightfully so, imo.

Like all horrendous murderers of both genders its only logical there will be those with an abusive childhood or some type of abuse in their adulthood, just like there is of numerous other individual murderers who brutally murder who have lived life without any abuse in it whatsover.

Imo, it's just a standard cop out excuse used by criminal female offenders trying to excuse the indefensible.

Jurors, rarely if ever.. buy it because it defies all commonsense, and logic. They know everyone has the same ability to make right or wrong choices about what they do, and who they decide they want to become in adulthood.

Millions of survivors of childhood abuses make the right choices to be better than where they came from when children.

Percentage wise only a few of them find themselves in the criminal justice system in comparison.

We can't ever lose sight of that fact. To do so it does a grave injustice to the many million of survivors who have become law abiding citizens never harming anyone, human nor animal.

Jmho
 
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  • #250
I hope this trial is not delayed years. So many trials around here seem to take forever. I hope for swift justice. I pray for the law works. In my county it doesn't for reasons I can't say here.
 
  • #251
I do not understand the motive in this case. If it was not sexual was it just the thrill of a kill So sad, only if she had been supervized.
 
  • #252
  • #253
Morning everyone!

While I agree with most all of what you posted on one thing I do not.

What I respectfully disagree with is when you say 'often' the abused becomes an abuser.

That's simply not true, and we need to recognize that fact.

There are over 6 million children being sexually abused EVERY year so if that was truly a deciding factor... we would see millions of both genders who were sexually abused, become abusers of other children or other various victims.

The overwhelming vast majority of childhood survivors do not become abusers, not only of children, but not against anyone else for that matter.

Now when they do find themselves in the criminal justice system will those offenders, and attorneys use this as an excuse for why they did so? Absolutely. Many will always place blame on others rather than squarely on all of the evildoers themselves. Its the same, yadda yadda, of don't blame ME...blame them. Ugh!

Imo the childhood abuse excuse is used trying to diminish the horrific violence they are charged with doing. This has become almost standard if the defendant is a female offender.

Ever wonder why it's rarely if ever, used as an excuse when the offenders are males even though boys in the millions are also terribly abused ? These excuses predominantly used by females are rarely successful in the trials or in the mitigation phases either, rightfully so, imo.

Like all horrendous murderers of both genders its only logical there will be those with an abusive childhood or some type of abuse in their adulthood, just like there is of numerous other individual murderers who brutally murder who have lived life without any abuse in it whatsover.

Imo, it's just a standard cop out excuse used by criminal female offenders trying to excuse the indefensible.

Jurors, rarely if ever.. buy it because it defies all commonsense, and logic. They know everyone has the same ability to make right or wrong choices about what they do, and who they decide they want to become in adulthood.

Millions of survivors of childhood abuses make the right choices to be better than where they came from when children.

Percentage wise only a few of them find themselves in the criminal justice system in comparison.

We can't ever lose sight of that fact. To do so it does a grave injustice to the many million of survivors who have become law abiding citizens never harming anyone, human nor animal.

Jmho[/QUOTE

Good morning...
'Tis evening this side of the pond...

It gets very complex in all reality.
Generally though, the victim can remain the victim, constantly blaming everything, past, relationships, society...blah blah; and that is all a reality in their eyes. So I do get how some abused victims remain in that 'victim' state.
Then it becomes a vicious circle. Some, in all fairness never become aware of their 'victim' state of mind.

However IMO, people who admit they are doing wrong, know they are doing wrong....and I believe this to be the case with DB. She knew, and, while I can be empathetic with her past, I cannot be sympathetic...there I think may be the line drawn....totally all my own opinion..
 
  • #254
No matter the timing of her death, none of it would comfort anyone, especially her loved ones.

I am grateful, though, that it appears it happened on the same night she was kidnapped. At least the poor sweetheart wasn't subjected to another moment of hell and torture by those two sick varmints from hell. She went through enough, just being kidnapped alone. I can't let myself think too much of what happened after- I don't think they just took her and simply suffocated her, know what I mean?

This angers me. Today, we brought our daughter in for her yearly cancer check- we lost her twin just before birth. How I would have loved her twin to have survived- we are so blessed with our daughter, as well as her older siblings, brother and sister. To lose one child and come close to losing another, due to circumstances beyond our control, just makes me more angry when I see what other children suffer through, at the hands of monsters. My daughter and I talked about Cupcake on the way to the hospital, and she was horrified to hear what happened. She couldn't understand the why's and hows of such perversion, and how PS was let out of prison earlier last week because someone posted bond. Then she heard about DB's incident with her kidnapping at gun point, and she angrily said "why the heck did this lady ever get out of jail? Obviously, if she threatened to kill her own kids, she wouldn't have a problem killing someone elses!"

I have no sympathy or compassion toward either one of them. Sick isn't a strong enough word. No punishment could ever be enough for the hurt and pain they caused not only Cupcake, but her brother and other siblings, her parents, grandparents, etc. Even PS and DB's families are suffering due to their actions. Their actions caused a devastation that is basically world wide- Cupcake has people from all over the world grieving- many of us never met her, but she touched our hearts. I can't imagine how her family is surviving this.
❤️
 
  • #255
  • #256
The judge told Stallworth that his lawyer would explain the charges to him and that the state will present evidence against him at a preliminary hearing if he chooses to have one, but Stallworth said he plans to hire his own attorney within the week.

McKinney’s father said his daughter was fondly regarded as Cupcake because “when she came out, she was all cute and red with little brown eyes and I said, ‘That’s my cupcake.’”
Alabama girl Kamille ‘Cupcake’ McKinney’s cause of death revealed in court warrant
 
  • #257
Couldn't have said it better!

Without going into too much detail, as this is not about me. I had a very abused childhood, alchol and violence included...my mother committed suicide when I was 12....(I can understand in my older years why)..lived with foster parents....etc etc...

Life in my teens wasn't easy, I made bad choices, but I did better myself to be able to study, maintain good jobs, buy a home with my amazing hubby and raise 2 beautiful children. I was dedicated to make their lives far removed from my childhood...

So, no I don't buy that either, we have choices....we can choose to change...it does take a lot of strength to overcome obstacles in our lives....IMO

DB admitted she had issues....she was aware of it...that's half the battle...so IMO she could have consciously made different choices.

MOO
Jenz....we have a few things in common....I’m so sorry :( I think it speaks volumes that we were able to overcome such trauma from our childhoods in order to have our own wonderful families.
I don’t like that DB is using her past as an excuse for her behaviors. She knew she was messed up & yet did not seek help & fight to get better for her kids....
MOO
 
  • #258
@Steelslady I am so very sorry for the loss of your precious child :(
 
  • #259
Honestly, speaking of trials and sentencing. I kind of hope these 2 see the light and decide to plead guilty in exchange for LWOP. I really don't want Cupcake's family to have to relive this horror through a long trial.
 
  • #260
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