Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[10ofRods]

They weren't filming, that's why there's no film of the incident.

We don't know that yet. Someone was standing behind the camera person and took a still just a little while before the incident.

We don't know who was and was not on that set and who might have been using a phone to film the excitement of the set.

Every single person there had a phone nearby, I bet. Let's let LE decide whether there was film or not of the incident.

Personally, I'm more interested in what the 6 or so witnesses say and whether they all say the same thing. I think any footage taken would show what we already know - Alec Baldwin took a real gun (which was loaded with a live round) and fired it in such a manner that one person died and another was injured. Do all the witnesses remember the AD saying the same thing? The armourer got there right away - was she in the room but not near the camera area?

I wonder what "right away" (reported to MSM) means in this case, as well. The medic was outside the church, she has said and when she heard the gunfire was alarmed (shouldn't have been any).

 

[Cool Cats]

Which means an actor, usually the highest person paid on the set, has the responsibility to make sure that protocol is followed. He/she can stop all work. Simply by saying, "No, the weapon should only be presented to me by the armorer. When that person is available, let me know...going to my trailer. Thank you.".

And no one would have been killed. If the actor had demanded that the safety protocols were followed.

Yup. But ya gotta wonder if the armorer would have given it a second look or just taken it from the AD and handed it to Alec. She is that questionable.

 

[MikeF]

Yeah, I keep saying that, but a lot of people want to argue that a gun loaded with blanks is a "cold gun." That is not my. experience, it's a terrible confusion of terms and blanks ought not to be fired from 4-5 feet away at a camera person, either. Period, full stop.

You are absolutely right. The only "cold gun" is an empty gun and that's what the term has meant since forever.

I think what's being said is, a gun loaded with dummy rounds is a cold gun. Dummy rounds have no potential to harm anyone.

On the flip side a blank does have the potential harm someone, so it would be classified as hot.

A dummy round and a blank round are two different animals.

 

[Cool Cats]

Which means an actor, usually the highest person paid on the set, has the responsibility to make sure that protocol is followed. He/she can stop all work. Simply by saying, "No, the weapon should only be presented to me by the armorer. When that person is available, let me know...going to my trailer. Thank you.".

And no one would have been killed. If the actor had demanded that the safety protocols were followed.

Yup. But ya gotta wonder if the armorer would have given it a second look or just taken it from the AD and handed it to Alec. She is that questionable.

 

[Satchie]

What would be the purpose of using a dummy round during the unfilmed rehearsal?

Apparently they were plotting out the whole move of AB pulling the gun out of his holster, cocking it, aiming and pulling the trigger. No idea whether it was all one smooth movement, or done in a slow sequence or whatever, but presumably it would be a key dramatic moment, and the cinematographer/director would be discussing exactly how to capture it, shot by shot.

For example, the scene might show a wide shot of him standing up, then cut to a close up of his hand on the holster pulling the gun, then pull back a little to show his upper body while raising his arm, then a wide shot of him from behind aiming at the victim and cocking the gun, then a close up of the gun shooting directly at the camera. They would be talking about how to efficiently shoot it: they don't just set up a camera and take one 5 second video, AB would have to do exactly the same move dozens of times while the camera is moved into different positions.

ETA: IMO the dummy rounds would enable the trigger to actually click realistically.

JMO

 

[MikeF]

Yeah, I keep saying that, but a lot of people want to argue that a gun loaded with blanks is a "cold gun." That is not my. experience, it's a terrible confusion of terms and blanks ought not to be fired from 4-5 feet away at a camera person, either. Period, full stop.

You are absolutely right. The only "cold gun" is an empty gun and that's what the term has meant since forever.

I think what's being said is, a gun loaded with dummy rounds is a cold gun. Same as an empty gun. Dummy rounds have no potential to harm anyone.

On the flip side a blank does have the potential harm someone, so it would be classified as hot.

A dummy round and a blank round are two different animals.

 

[mickey2942]

Yup. But ya gotta wonder if the armorer would have given it a second look or just taken it from the AD and handed it to Alec. She is that questionable.

True. But then, 100% of this mess would be directly on her. Seems to be a CYA thing any actor/actress should demand.

 

[Cool Cats]

True. But then, 100% of this mess would be directly on her. Seems to be a CYA thing any actor/actress should demand.

Can't argue that.

 

[MikeF]

For a true close-up, only the gun is seen. So, anyone could be holding it as long as their sleeve matched what the actor was wearing.

If only that plastic gun had been on the table, for this supposed rehearsal, then no one would have died.

Unless they finished rehearsing the scene, and the rubber gun was taken back, and the exact same gun (that fired this bullet) was then handed to him to shoot the scene, and involved pulling the trigger. And it would still be classified as a cold gun because it was suppose to only contain non injury dummy rounds.

 

[Cool Cats]

True. But then, 100% of this mess would be directly on her. Seems to be a CYA thing any actor/actress should demand.

But it still could be close to 100% on her if she had told the AD flat out that it was a cold gun.

The AD had a reason to think it was cold....Hummm...

Now why did he think that?

 

[everybodhi]

snipped & bbm
Every single person there had a phone nearby, I bet. Let's let LE decide whether there was film or not of the incident.

Personally, I'm more interested in what the 6 or so witnesses say and whether they all say the same thing. I think any footage taken would show what we already know - Alec Baldwin took a real gun (which was loaded with a live round) and fired it in such a manner that one person died and another was injured. Do all the witnesses remember the AD saying the same thing? The armourer got there right away - was she in the room but not near the camera area?

I wonder what "right away" (reported to MSM) means in this case, as well. The medic was outside the church, she has said and when she heard the gunfire was alarmed (shouldn't have been any).

Sheriff Mendoza said during the press conference that there's no film of the shooting.

Sheriff: Movie set showed 'some complacency' with weapons

"Authorities also confirmed there was no footage of the shooting, which happened during a rehearsal"

 

[steeltowngirl]

I haven’t seen any reports that he picked it up from the tray.


“That Thursday, the crew began preparing for the scene before Baldwin had returned from his lunch break. Gutierrez Reed entered the church with the firearms, performing a safety check with the Colt .45 in front of Halls. He thought he saw three rounds inside the gun, but he did not check them before taking the weapon in his hand.

He told investigators that “he should have checked all of them, but didn’t, and couldn’t recall if she spun the drum,” according to the affidavit.

The armorer left the church”

The affidavit noted that the AD picked up one of the guns from the cart.
‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline

During the filming of the movie, the Assistant Director (Dave Halls,) grabbed one of three “prop-guns” that was set-up by the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez), which was on a cart. The cart is a gray in color rolling table with two layers and was left outside of the structure due to COVID19 restrictions. Affiant learned one of the prop-guns was then grabbed by the Assistant Director (Dave Halls) and he took it to the actor identified as Alec Baldwin who was inside of the structure. As the Assistant Director (Dave Halls) handed the gun to the Actor Alec Baldwin, (Dave Halls) yelled, “Cold Gun,” indicating the prop-gun did not have any live rounds. The prop-gun was fired by the Actor Alec Baldwin, striking the Cinematographer identified as (Halayna Hutchins) and Joel Souza (Director) who was behind the Cinematographer (Halayna Hutchins).

Affiant later learned, the Assistant Director (Dave Halls) did not know live rounds were in the prop-gun, when he had given to the prop gun to the Actor Alec Baldwin.

Affiant learned what had happened to the prop-gun once it was fired. The prop-gun was handled by the Armorer identified as (Hannah Gutierrez) and given to the Assistant Director (Dave Halls). The Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez) was given the prop gun after it was fired by Actor Alec Baldwin, she then took the spent casing out of the prop-gun. When deputies arrived on scene, the prop-gun was handed to arriving deputies by Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez).

 

[katydid23]

I recommend going back and taking a peek at what @gitana1 wrote about this. His pointing a gun where he did was not a huge misstep. There are about 6 or 7 really good posts of hers that I recommend anyone who missed the first time around, go back and read.

My husband has been a working member of SAG, The Writers Guild, and the Director's Guild for 30+ years. Our daughter has been working in the business for 20 years and I had to accompany her to the set for every minute of her first 10 years.

I have a strong understanding of 'who does what' on a film set. And I have spoken to many others in the business about this situation because it is a number one topic here in Los Angeles. Most of the people I talked to felt upset and sad for AB at first because they totally blamed the AD and the armorer. But as more info came out, it became clear that AB made a lot of mistakes himself, which had a big impact upon the situation.

People brought up the BASIC firearm rules which were broken by everyone on the set it seems, including AB himself. As an actor with 30 years experience there is no doubt in my mind that he knew better.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

But it still could be close to 100% on her if she had told the AD flat out that it was a cold gun.

The AD had a reason to think it was cold....Hummm...

Now why did he think that?

Probably because he was under pressure with the camera crew walking out to get back on schedule.

That made him careless in viewing the gun and perhaps he only saw what he wanted to see. JMO.

 

[branmuffin]

Dummy rounds do not have holes in the sides. This has been frequently repeated on this thread. I can’t find a single manufacturer that makes dummy rounds with holes in the sides. They often have large holes at the back of the round, in the location where a primer would normally be. They are often black or orange, and visually differ from live ammunition. There is a type of dummy with no hole in it known as a “snap cap,” which is used for practicing without live ammunition. These have a brass back that can appear similar to regular ammunition, but they have a plastic body with a spring inside.

Blanks are similar to live ammunition in that they have primers and gunpowder. Unless they were removed from the cylinder, it would be difficult to tell them apart from regular live ammunition.

Inert pistol cartridges

 

[MikeF]

Inert pistol cartridges

I've seen two variations of Dummy rounds. One has a hole drilled in it and another has the dimpled primer. And (imo) the end result is they have no more danger than a cotton ball being put in the gun.

 

[mickey2942]

But it still could be close to 100% on her if she had told the AD flat out that it was a cold gun.

The AD had a reason to think it was cold....Hummm...

Now why did he think that?

Doesn't matter. And Alec Baldwin has been on enough movies, film sets to know what the protocol is for using a gun on a set. He didn't follow the safety protocols, that are basic to every single movie/tv show with guns.

The armorer is responsible for the guns.
The armorer explains to the actor, directly, what type of ammunition is being placed in the gun; dummies, or blanks. The armorer shows the altered ammunition to the actor, who is supposed to inspect it visually and verify the information.

The armorer shows the actor that the gun is completely unloaded, no bullets in cylinder, chamber, clip, or anywhere else on/in the gun. This is visually identified by both parties. Then, the armorer loads the gun/weapon with the correct ammunition.

1. Halls should have never picked up or touched the gun.
2. Live ammunition should never be on a movie set
3. The guns should be with the armorer, the actor for a scene, or locked in a secured area.

Lots of "hurry up" and get this done, cutting corners, on this film lead to mistakes. Every person in the chain has culpability. Including the actor, who did not insist on the safety protocol.

 

[katydid23]

Well, AD described Rust's protocol and it was that AD was responsible for the safety check on the gun. The gun cart was left outside because of covid protocols. So Rust also had covid protocols going at the same time, whatever was in those. So it would appear to me AD was supposed to have done all those steps (watch the gun being loaded, test fire the gun and so on). By his own admission (I bet his lawyer is not happy with that) AD didn't do a thorough job of it.

Yes, AD failed to do those steps which were HIS responsibility, to do. But many of the articles we have already linked here and pasted here, say that it is also the actor's responsibility, to follow the safety protocols. And certainly the producer's responsibility as well.

AB has 30+ years of experience. He should have noticed that AD was not following the correct procedure. ALSO, AB KNEW THAT THERE WAS AN EARLIER INCIDENT ON THIS SET ,where a hot gun was handed to an actor, and they were falsely told it was cold.

That^^^ is where the problem comes in for AB, in my opinion. Why would he blindly accept that it was a safe gun, when several rules were being broken as it was being handed to him. [real guns were not supposed to be used during rehearsals, the AD was supposed to check the weapon/ammo and then the armorer was supposed to hand it to the actor ---]

He was ignoring all of these red flags and blindly accepting that it was a safe gun, even though he knew there was a previous mishap by these same people days earlier.

 

[everybodhi]

Probably because he was under pressure with the camera crew walking out to get back on schedule.

That made him careless in viewing the gun and perhaps he only saw what he wanted to see. JMO.

A Call of ‘Cold Gun!’ A Live Round. And Death on a Film Set.

BBM
Edited to comply with 10% TOS.
More at link.

When the cast and crew got back from lunch that day, Ms. Gutierrez-Reed showed Mr. Halls the .45 Colt revolver that Mr. Baldwin would handle. Mr. Halls told a detective that he recalled seeing three rounds inside but could not recall whether Ms. Gutierrez-Reed had spun the drum so he could check every chamber and every round.

“He advised he should have checked all of them, but didn’t,” Detective Alexandria Hancock wrote.

...[after live shot fired]

Back on the set, Mr. Halls picked up the revolver from a church pew and handed it to Ms. Gutierrez-Reed, who opened it up to see what was inside. Mr. Halls told a detective that he saw at least four rounds with a hole in the side, which sometimes indicate that a round is a dummy.

But there was another round in the gun, he told a detective, one with just a casing, no cap, and which did not have the pierced hole.

A few days later, Sheriff Adan Mendoza of Santa Fe County would announce what had become increasingly clear: The gun had fired a live round, a lead bullet.

The bullet was recovered from the director’s shoulder. Now the investigation is focused on how it got into the revolver.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Inert pistol cartridges

Why does this guy call some of his products dummy bullets and others he calls dummy ammunition? Strange.

He say's that 90% of his products use new brass cases so I guess he drills a hole in the side of the case instead of using BB's because there's no primer in the base of the case. JMO.

Thanks for the link.

hot glue primer