Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[jjenny]

People remember traumatic events differently. Now, it's up to the investigators to sort it all out--if they can.

I think just the fact live rounds were on the set is problematic and I'm leaning more toward someone intentionally sabotaging the gun.

JMOO

And it's not uncommon for witnesses to give differing statements, unfortunately.

 

[jjenny]

I've not heard much real OMG stuff past the whole holy moley two people are shot. But I think it was yesterday or day before they released a 911 call from Naomi Mitchell, the script supervisor. She reports the shooting; seems calm, then it's like 1 to 50, she goes off about "that fn AD yelled at me at lunch asking about revisions! He's suppose to check the guns, he's responsible....

I'd put her in the upper area of my questioning. 1:15 on the link.

Sounds as a totally normal reaction to stress to me. She was standing right there when cinematographer was shot. She could have been one of the victims.

 

[jjenny]

Good grief. These are stage/prop guns. They should be secured at all times. Not used for random target practice with real bullets.

If HGR was doing her job responsibly, she was doing inventory, maintaining checklists, and logs for checking the guns, and ammo. And providing comprehensive firearm safety instruction.

And then how would she not know there was live ammo on the set? She even released that through her lawyers. When it's her job to know what ammo is on the set.

 

[jjenny]

I kind of view that something like a teen throws a party. His parents are adamant they will be 100% watching over the party. Next thing they know some kid is drunk off his ass and falls out a window. They SWEAR no alcohol was in their home and then surprise....couple of the kids snuck some in and took off to the backyard. Obviously the parents can be held, just like HGR, but maybe they both thought they absolutely knew no booze/no live ammo.

In either situation unless the kids arriving were frisked (and trust me as a teen that never would have stopped me from finding a solution lol) and the people entering the Rust set weren't frisked, or have to pass by metal detectors and dogs, so really other than HGR and the whole upper portion of people making the film, making it clear NO live ammo, how would she know?

Well, then the parents weren't really watching the party, were they? Or they wouldn't have missed drunk kids staggering around.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

It appears that both of them (propmaster and armorer) were young and un-experienced. I am guessing that when AD's lawyer is talking about an assistant, she is talking about propmaster (SZ) and HGR (who was propmaster's assistant).

Yes that reminds me of the unit production manager's comment that "apparently props and armor require handholding". If they were both so inadequate and inexperienced, perhaps production should have done something about that earlier. Surely it's a big red flag that the person in charge of the guns needs "handholding".

 

[katydid23]

That's a total speculation on your part. There were presumably people shooting at him in the script-it's a Western after all. You don't know that he demanded anything extra. I don't think it ever even occurred to him there could be live rounds (real bullets) in the gun. Since it doesn't normally happen on movie sets.

It wouldn't occur to him a gun may have a live round? But it happened on that very set 3 days earlier. So of course it must have occurred to him because it happened already. The assistant shot herself in the foot and his stunt double was handed a gun that was supposed to be cold and it misfired twice on the set.

So why would he think it could never happen?

 

[katydid23]

Well, then the parents weren't really watching the party, were they? Or they wouldn't have missed drunk kids staggering around.

EXACTLY. Just like the producers weren't watching out for the crew or they wouldn't have missed 'cold' guns actually misfiring on set.

 

[katydid23]

Yes that reminds me of the unit production manager's comment that "apparently props and armor require handholding". If they were both so inadequate and inexperienced, perhaps production should have done something about that earlier. Surely it's a big red flag that the person in charge of the guns needs "handholding".

Especially if it is true that the armorer was requesting more safety meetings, and more time to prepare the weapons and production denied both. That may come back to bite them if it goes to civil litigation.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I mean just in general on the set. Say like, she's keeping an eye on all the weapons and ammo as her job requires and John Doe shows up with some live ammo in his pockets. How would she know that?

HGR’s main job was to ensure that the gun that went into the hands of each person on set was safe for handling. She should have confirmed there was not live ammo in the gun that was handed off to the next person. Instead, she allowed a gun with live rounds to make it into the rehearsal in the church set.

In New Mexico, according to a post on the website of Local 480 IATSE, the film technicians’ union, a licensed armorer must be on set when weapons are used. Now they are relying on conflicting reports from witnesses at the scene, because HGR was not in the room. She has stated she was pressured to do multiple jobs on the set. She failed to do the most important job of all - ensure the guns were kept safe for handling on set.

 

[jjenny]

It wouldn't occur to him a gun may have a live round? But it happened on that very set 3 days earlier. So of course it must have occurred to him because it happened already. The assistant shot herself in the foot and his stunt double was handed a gun that was supposed to be cold and it misfired twice on the set.

So why would he think it could never happen?

Both of those were blanks as far as I can tell, not live ammo (real bullets).

 

[jjenny]

Yes that reminds me of the unit production manager's comment that "apparently props and armor require handholding". If they were both so inadequate and inexperienced, perhaps production should have done something about that earlier. Surely it's a big red flag that the person in charge of the guns needs "handholding".

I believe both of them were in their twenties and didn't have a lot of experience. Sounds like experienced people turn these jobs down. HGR only had a lead armorer role in Old Way before Rust, and the Old way at least had an experienced prop master.

 

[jjenny]

HGR’s main job was to ensure that the gun that went into the hands of each person on set was safe for handling. She should have confirmed there was not live ammo in the gun that was handed off to the next person. Instead, she allowed a gun with live rounds to make it into the rehearsal in the church set.

In New Mexico, according to a post on the website of Local 480 IATSE, the film technicians’ union, a licensed armorer must be on set when weapons are used. Now they are relying on conflicting reports from witnesses at the scene, because HGR was not in the room. She has stated she was pressured to do multiple jobs on the set. She failed to do the most important job of all - ensure the guns were kept safe for handling on set.

Was she actually licensed? I presume she had to have demonstrated at least some form of competence if she was licensed.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I totally get where you're coming from but handling a gun comes with some responsibilities.

In gun-safety courses, we're taught that the buck stops with the person who shoots the gun. I get that AB might not have known much about guns, but he's handled them on sets before and he should have insisted on being trained.

To me, picking up a gun, pointing it, and shooting it without first checking to see it if was loaded is akin to getting behind the wheel of a car and putting it in drive without knowing how to drive.

At the end of the day, this has to come down on AB--at least to an extent. Not because he's an actor, just because he's an adult and knows that guns are dangerous.

Maybe it will come down to that. Was it reasonable for AB to believe the gun he was handed was safe? If it gets to a criminal or civil court - will a jury defer to what he should have considered based on his previous experience? Or will they find it was reasonable for him to believe the gun was safe, per the chain of custody handoff?

 

[Dotta]

'Rust' shooting: Checking Alec Baldwin's gun was not the assistant director's responsibility, attorney says - CNN

 

[katydid23]

Both of those were blanks as far as I can tell, not live ammo (real bullets).

We don't really know, but even if just blanks, that can be a lethal mistake too.

 

[steeltowngirl]

A little background on Dave Halls’ attorney. She’s not just an entertainment industry lawyer. She’s a former senator in New Mexico. Torraco practices law throughout the state of New Mexico in both state and federal court.

Lisa Torraco - Wikipedia

An Experienced, Skilled And Aggressive Fighter
Lisa Torraco is in the business of defending the innocent and getting second chances for the guilty.

Albuquerque Criminal Attorney | DUI/DWI Defense | Drug Violations | Sex Offender Law

 

[katydid23]

'Rust' shooting: Checking Alec Baldwin's gun was not the assistant director's responsibility, attorney says - CNN

I think this^^^ attorney is incorrect and may be purposely muddying the waters when saying it was not the AD's responsibility to check the gun. Here is what a firearms specialist with 30 years of film experience says:

On film sets, the person most responsible for safety is usually the First Assistant Director, and as a result they will also inspect the firearm -- a task the director, producer, camera operator or cinematographer may oversee, too.
Every single person on set -- cast or crew -- has the right to inspect a prop gun. But the specialist is the only person who will hand the firearm to an actor for use, and the specialist is the same person who receives it back when the talent is done.

WHAT ARE THE RULES FOR FIREARMS ON SET?

The weapons master is required to be on set whenever a weapon is being used. The Actors' Equity Association's guidelines state that, “Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside."

Further, “All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armorer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision.”

Opinion: Guns can be safely used on a film set -- but only if you follow the rules - CNN

 

[steeltowngirl]

With all the finger-pointing and CYA going on, I am still waiting for someone from the Rust movie to simply say “We are so sorry Halyna, we failed you.”

 

[katydid23]

An attorney representing David Halls, an assistant director on the set of the film "Rust," said it was not Halls' responsibility to confirm whether the gun handed to Alec Baldwin was loaded, despite Halls previously acknowledging to investigators that he should have checked all the rounds before declaring the firearm safe.

"He's not responsible for checking it," attorney Lisa Torraco said in an interview on Fox News on Monday. "That's not the assistant director's job. If he chooses to check the firearm because he wants to make sure that everyone's safe, he can do that, but that's not his responsibility."



THAT^^^ is totally incorrect. How can she say "He's not responsible for checking it," when he was the one handing the weapon directly to AB to use it in the scene?

How can she say he was NOT directly responsible for checking it when he himself was handling that same weapon on set, and pulling it in and out of the holster, just like AB did when it went off and killed someone.

Is she saying it is fine that he picked it up and handed it to AB without checking to see if it was loaded or not? It's not his problem ?

Last I checked, the Assistant Director is directly in charge of safety on the set and of firearm safety specifically. How can she say it was not one of his responsibilities as well?

Sure, it was directly the armourers responsibility. But his role as AD is to double check her work and to protect the set by being that double check as a safety net.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Was she actually licensed? I presume she had to have demonstrated at least some form of competence if she was licensed.

Great question. I haven’t come up with anything about HGR’s licensing.

Interesting site about how to become an armorer.
How to Become an Armorer/Weapons Master on Film Sets - Careers in Film

Mike Tristano says:
“When starting out as an Intern or Apprentice, an individual probably won’t get paid at all. It’s free labor to break into the business,” says Tristano. “Becoming a licensed Armorer varies state to state but can be quite expensive, as well. The amount of money depends on the show.”

“Generally, because there are so few Armorers, and having one on set is a requirement for weapons being present, they can dictate their pay. It usually correlates to different budgets and union tiers, but the overall wage fluctuates from $200 per day to $500 per eight or ten-hour day.”

An Armorer’s pay becomes lucrative if a shoot goes into overtime because that can be time-and-a-half or double time. Some shoots will have an eighteen-hour day which is tiring, but also a chance to pad the bank account.