Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[Luna20]

https://nypost.com/2021/11/02/halyna-hutchins-tried-to-stave-off-rust-crew-walk-off-before-fatal-shooting/

“Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins tried in vain to keep a disgruntled camera crew from walking off the New Mexico set of “Rust” — but they did, just hours before she was shot dead with a loaded gun fired by actor Alec Baldwin.

Hutchins had treated the crew to a sushi dinner and agreed to forego the pricy rental of movie equipment to free up money for the camera operators to get local hotel accommodations, the Los Angeles Times said in a report”

 

[branmuffin]

I'm in Canada, handguns are mostly illegal. I think you can only carry a loaded shotgun or rifle in an area safe for hunting, so yes, they would probably call police. I don't know whether I'd be arrested, probably given a warning (ETA because I'm a law-abiding person. If I was threatening to shoot people, that would be different)

If you brought a loaded handgun to work in Canada you'd probably be arrested. Almost all provinces have very strict rules regarding the transportation of handguns and they don't include bringing them to work.

 

[Satchie]

My company policy (as it relates to the prevention of workplace violence) includes the potential to be fired and having 911 called - which brings the police.

Any use or possession of dangerous weapons, whether illegal or not, is prohibited on Company property or while on Company business. A dangerous weapon is a device, instrument or substance that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, including but not limited to guns, knives, clubs, chemicals and explosive devices. Dangerous weapons do not include work tools, or non-flammable pepper spray or mace, when used appropriately. Any employee in violation of this policy can be disciplined, up to and including discharge.
If you experience or observe any conduct or person that you deem suspicious or potentially dangerous, report that person or situation to Human Resources, Security Services, or your supervisor immediately. If the situation warrants it, please also contact 911 or other appropriate authorities. For additional information, please see the Workplace Violence Prevention and Response Policy.

Pretty dramatic language. I think there's still a strong level of trust in the communities I've worked in, they don't feel they have to spell these things out because the unwritten code hasn't been violated very often.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Mod Note:

What AB’s Spouse shares with the media can be discussed. However, she is not a POI in a case. That limits discussion of her to only what is stated in the MSM article. Several posts have been removed this evening for personal comments that fall outside that scope.

Thanks for helping us keep this thread in line with the TOS that cover all threads on the WS Platform.

 

[PoppyBear]

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's attorney suggests 'Rust' crew 'sabotaged' set

IMO, this is unlikely. While HGR may not have had a ton of experience, I find it unlikely she wouldn’t know the difference between a live round and a dummy, just as I am certain she can operate a gun safely.

I do foresee a lot of collaboration with the entire story amongst parties. I am guessing HGR, AB and Halls will want to have their stories align because that will help protect everyone. It also keeps everyone (especially Baldwin) from looking bad in the public eye, instead gaining sympathy. Baldwin is very likely the one who really wants to remove himself from a negative light as this could possibly could impact his future with acting.

::my two cents::

 

[GatorFL]

How about if you bring a loaded gun to work? Can your employer call the police and have you arrested?

It depends on the state.

Here in FL is there is a "Weapons Not Permitted" sign on the front door and you bring a weapon in, you're in trouble. If there is no such sign, and you have a concealed carry permit, it is completely legal to bring a weapon in, unless the primary function of the business is a bar or lounge that sells alcohol. So you could bring a gun into a restaurant but a sports bar might be questionable.

 

[Kiranerys]

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's attorney suggests 'Rust' crew 'sabotaged' set

IMO, this is unlikely. While HGR may not have had a ton of experience, I find it unlikely she wouldn’t know the difference between a live round and a dummy, just as I am certain she can operate a gun safely.

I do foresee a lot of collaboration with the entire story amongst parties. I am guessing HGR, AB and Halls will want to have their stories align because that will help protect everyone. It also keeps everyone (especially Baldwin) from looking bad in the public eye, instead gaining sympathy. Baldwin is very likely the one who really wants to remove himself from a negative light as this could possibly could impact his future with acting.

::my two cents::

Looks like maybe HGR and her lawyer read websleuths , maybe we should stop giving them ideas!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Lane Luper speaks hours after Alec Baldwin appeared to defend claims of poor working conditions on 'Rust'

"What I put in my resignation letter was lax COVID policies, the housing situation driving to and from Albuquerque, and specifically, gun safety, a lack of rehearsals, a lack of preparing the crew for what we were doing that day," Luper said.

"I think with ‘Rust’ it was a perfect storm of the armorer, the assistant director, the culture that was on set, the rushing, it was everything. It wasn't just one individual. Everything had to fall into place perfectly for this one-in-a-trillion thing to happen," Luper said.

'Rust' first camera assistant claims Alec Baldwin shooting a result of lack of gun safety protocols

 

[mickey2942]

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's attorney suggests 'Rust' crew 'sabotaged' set

IMO, this is unlikely. While HGR may not have had a ton of experience, I find it unlikely she wouldn’t know the difference between a live round and a dummy, just as I am certain she can operate a gun safely.

I do foresee a lot of collaboration with the entire story amongst parties. I am guessing HGR, AB and Halls will want to have their stories align because that will help protect everyone. It also keeps everyone (especially Baldwin) from looking bad in the public eye, instead gaining sympathy. Baldwin is very likely the one who really wants to remove himself from a negative light as this could possibly could impact his future with acting.

::my two cents::

Crisis manager advises the Baldwins to stop posting on social media: 'Better off to wait'

This ^^^

I doubt the HGR, BH, or AB are going to collaborate or check each other's stories. AB is ready to throw them under the bus. Everything runs downhill, so HGR better be very careful. And please lose the "I am tied up" shirt. It is beyond inappropriate.

 

[Cryptic]

How about if you bring a loaded gun to work? Can your employer call the police and have you arrested?

With one quirky exception regarding hunting weapons in a locked car in the parking lot, employers and property owners have full control over weapons being brought onto their property in Texas.

People who violate the owners policy regarding weapons would be arrested for trespass, and not a weapons based charge per se. As in Florida, businesses post signs if weapons are banned.

 

[BUF]

I am often skeptical of people giving tv interviews while an active investigation is going on. LL while on GMA this morning said he didn’t want to be on camera (meaning interview)…but there he is.

Video at link…

Former 'Rust' crew member speaks out about safety concerns

 

[Cryptic]

I agree there will be lawsuits. I think they will settle out of court with Halyna’s family for wrongful death before it gets to court.

But what about the set members who will likely claim trauma? The AD and the armourer may come in with defamation suits. This is gonna get real ugly.

My guess is that AB will offer a relatively small, yet still meaningful settlement to Halyna's family and teh famly of the wounded person.

Any personal injury attorney can sit a jury willing to award monumental sums, but having appellate courts uphold such verdicts is another matter. Appellate courts could be more sympathetic to AB than juries.

As for the other potential- and probable suits, I think any settlement will be refused as paying one or some will only generate more suits.

 

[PoppyBear]

Looks like maybe HGR and her lawyer read websleuths , maybe we should stop giving them ideas!

Hilarious.

But truly, even looking here, it seems pretty clear his PR team is working around the clock and it is working on a lot of people. I could be entirely off base here but I don’t think it is an unlikely scenario that his PR team is feeding whatever they can to the media.

Crisis manager advises the Baldwins to stop posting on social media: 'Better off to wait'

This ^^^

I doubt the HGR, BH, or AB are going to collaborate or check each other's stories. AB is ready to throw them under the bus. Everything runs downhill, so HGR better be very careful. And please lose the "I am tied up" shirt. It is beyond inappropriate.

Maybe, but why wouldn’t they? I am sure attorneys will talk and blaming someone for being a disgruntled employee possibly means shifting all the blame away from producers and AB. Helping HGR and BH, who are likely worried, could very well be in The interest of the “bigger” parties involved.

None of this is fact, but my speculating.

 

[Luna20]

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's attorney suggests 'Rust' crew 'sabotaged' set

IMO, this is unlikely. While HGR may not have had a ton of experience, I find it unlikely she wouldn’t know the difference between a live round and a dummy, just as I am certain she can operate a gun safely.

I do foresee a lot of collaboration with the entire story amongst parties. I am guessing HGR, AB and Halls will want to have their stories align because that will help protect everyone. It also keeps everyone (especially Baldwin) from looking bad in the public eye, instead gaining sympathy. Baldwin is very likely the one who really wants to remove himself from a negative light as this could possibly could impact his future with acting.

::my two cents::

From your link^^^

“You can’t rule anybody out at this point,” he insisted.

Bowles also said there was at least two hours “in which the firearms at times were unattended” before Baldwin accidentally shot dead cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, a 42-year-old mom.

“So there was opportunity to tamper with the scene,” Bowles said. “And yes, we’re looking at that possibility.”

Fellow attorney Robert Gorence — also a former federal prosecutor — explained that while the guns were all “locked in a safe,” the prop ammo was in a truck that was “completely unattended at all times.”

“Giving someone access and opportunity,” he stressed of the New Mexico set.

According to this person the firearms were left unattended.

 

[Luna20]

Hilarious.

But truly, even looking here, it seems pretty clear his PR team is working around the clock and it is working on a lot of people. I could be entirely off base here but I don’t think it is an unlikely scenario that his PR team is feeding whatever they can to the media.



Maybe, but why wouldn’t they? I am sure attorneys will talk and blaming someone for being a disgruntled employee possibly means shifting all the blame away from producers and AB. Helping HGR and BH, who are likely worried, could very well be in The interest of the “bigger” parties involved.

None of this is fact, but my speculating.

There shouldn’t be this kind of banter back and forth during an active investigation. I agree and believe the narrative being driven is to shift the blame away from the producers.

 

[Kiranerys]

From your link^^^

“You can’t rule anybody out at this point,” he insisted.

Bowles also said there was at least two hours “in which the firearms at times were unattended” before Baldwin accidentally shot dead cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, a 42-year-old mom.

“So there was opportunity to tamper with the scene,” Bowles said. “And yes, we’re looking at that possibility.”

Fellow attorney Robert Gorence — also a former federal prosecutor — explained that while the guns were all “locked in a safe,” the prop ammo was in a truck that was “completely unattended at all times.”

“Giving someone access and opportunity,” he stressed of the New Mexico set.

According to this person the firearms were left unattended.

Even if this was the case (which I doubt) it still wouldn't exonerate his client though. Her job was to check each and every round she loaded into that gun, and if she had she would have found and discarded,and hopefully reported the live round. She either didn't check the ammo she loaded, didn't check the ammo already loaded into the gun (there shouldn't have been any that she hadn't loaded so that should be a moot point) or can't tell the difference between a live round and a dummy,any and all of which still make her negligent IMO.

 

[Luna20]

Even if this was the case (which I doubt) it still wouldn't exonerate his client though. Her job was to check each and every round she loaded into that gun, and if she had she would have found and discarded,and hopefully reported the live round. She either didn't check the ammo she loaded, didn't check the ammo already loaded into the gun (there shouldn't have been any that she hadn't loaded so that should be a moot point) or can't tell the difference between a live round and a dummy,any and all of which still make her negligent IMO.

I agree. It doesn’t excuse her of what she was responsible for at all. Even if it was a box of live ammo that got mixed in she is still the one who loaded the gun. If she is a qualified armorer she would know the difference while loading it.

My point was in that article she is trying to throw the “chaos on the set” excuse out there while in relation to her it doesn’t matter what was going on on the set.

It isn’t helping her to say anything about things being left unattended as she is equally responsible for knowing where it is at all times.

 

[mickey2942]

I agree. It doesn’t excuse her of what she was responsible for at all. Even if it was a box of live ammo that got mixed in she is still the one who loaded the gun. If she is a qualified armorer she would know the difference while loading it.

My point was in that article she is trying to throw the “chaos on the set” excuse out there while in relation to her it doesn’t matter what was going on on the set.

It isn’t helping her to say anything about things being left unattended as she is equally responsible for knowing where it is at all times.

Agreed. If she felt overworked or overwhelmed, she should have stood her ground, made a written statement regarding safety, and quit if nothing changed.

As it stands now, her career as an armorer is probably over, she is potentially facing criminal charges, and definitely spending resources on attorney fees.

Good information for other people in regards to safety and work performance. No one will have your back if anything goes wrong.

 

[Arkay]

Even if this was the case (which I doubt) it still wouldn't exonerate his client though. Her job was to check each and every round she loaded into that gun, and if she had she would have found and discarded,and hopefully reported the live round. She either didn't check the ammo she loaded, didn't check the ammo already loaded into the gun (there shouldn't have been any that she hadn't loaded so that should be a moot point) or can't tell the difference between a live round and a dummy,any and all of which still make her negligent IMO.

I agree. It doesn’t excuse her of what she was responsible for at all. Even if it was a box of live ammo that got mixed in she is still the one who loaded the gun. If she is a qualified armorer she would know the difference while loading it.

My point was in that article she is trying to throw the “chaos on the set” excuse out there while in relation to her it doesn’t matter what was going on on the set.

It isn’t helping her to say anything about things being left unattended as she is equally responsible for knowing where it is at all times.

Yes and I cannot understand this defense, at all.

IMO this is equivalent to admitting she screwed up. How is it relieving her of culpability to say she didn't do her job of attending to weaponry and ammunition at all times? Smh.

It's like the Secret Service saying it's not their fault the president was assassinated, because they left him unguarded for a day. Or a boat captain saying it's not his fault the ship crashed into the rocks, because he took a a nap for a few hours instead of guiding the ship. Parents not knowing their toddler ran into traffic because they were watching TV. Or any of a million similar scenarios.

IMO

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Since the revolver as evidence was reportedly tampered with before LE arrived (unloaded by the armorer on orders of the AD, which she should have refused) a key piece of evidence has been rendered worthless: how many rounds were in the cylinder at the time the weapon fired. If there were five, the live round would likely have been the first loaded to place it in the "ready to fire" position. If there were six, it would likely be the second loaded.

Another key piece of evidence is the timing and the nature of the instruction given to the armorer to prepare the weapon for the rehearsal. How many rounds was she told to load, and was the instruction written, verbal, text, email, part of the script or what? How much time was she given to insert the rounds? Was the weapon empty or loaded when unattended, if it was unattended? Haven't seen much, if anything, about that.

This thread has discussed the implications of live ammunition "on the set" without defining what is meant by "the set." Was it the whole Bonanza Creek Ranch, the town, or some other area? One person can assert that there was live ammunition on "the set" and another deny it and they both can be right because they were using two different definitions of "the set."

Anyone claiming sabotage has to explain two things: how the live round got into the weapon and how the cylinder happened to be turned to the one out of six possible positions that placed the live round ready to fire. Lots of conversation so far about the first point, not so much about the second.