Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #5

[al66pine]

Would Bill Have Prevented Rust Tragedy?
An excerpt from Senate Bill 188* introduced Jan. 31 in NM legislature & referenced in MSM** articles quoted earlier.
Section w gen. training requirement:
"FILMMAKING--EMPLOYEES--HUNTER SAFETY TRAINING REQUIREMENT.--
" A. All individuals employed in New Mexico by a film production company that has firearms or firearm ammunition physically located on the premises where filming is taking place shall have a valid certificate of competency in the safe handling of firearms pursuant to the Hunter Training Act." bbm ubm

The aptly named HTA*** (sec. 17-2-33) prohibits, a person under age 18 from hunting w a firearm without having a certificate showing s/he passed a NM state-recognized course. <--- a summary, w a few exceptions, including courses in other states.

Vendor Courses
On-line
The state recognizes two vendors' online HTA courses.
^ Hunter Education - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish
Afaik, other NM mandated firearm safety courses (such as course mandated for license to carry concealed
handgun***) do not meet HTA requirements.

1. Hunter-ed.com has website page for $ 34.95 NM HTA course:
"73-second sample to see how we put you in the hunter’s camo....Live‐Action, High‐Definition Video."
Be sure to watch vid, showing ppl chasing game, such as squirrels, turkeys, bucks, also advising hunters to wear blaze orange.
"Most students finish the course in a few hours." bbm
Seems like no time for specific firearms, so I'm not sure how this would enhance safety in classic or modern westerns, in war-centric. Or in cops & robbers, or espionage, or true crime programs or other genres.
^ New Mexico Online Hunter Safety Course | Hunter-ed.com™
And
"The HuntWise app combines pinpoint mapping features with accurate weather forecasting to provide hunters with the ideal tool to determine the best times and places to hunt all major North American game species." bbm
Seems this vendor promotes software which is irrelevant to (most) movie production employees. Afaik those employees do not need to be successful hunters.
Q: Would a 2 - 3 hour course for 10 - 18 y/o's have prevented Alec from killing Halayna & injuring Asst AD? Doubtful imo.

2. From $ 29.00 on-line offering at huntercourse:
"Rifle and Shotgun Actions... To help you find the right firearm to suit your needs... most common firearm actions available and how each operates....you must always read the owner's manual of any firearm you buy for a detailed explanation on how to operate it safely." bbm
Don't armorers select firearms for filming, so other employees on-set do not need a guide on choosing firearm?
And "read the manual"?
Q: Would this short course for 10 - 18 y/o's have prevented Alec from killing Halayna & injuring Asst AD? Doubtful imo.
www2.huntercourse.com/newmexico/study

In-Person Courses
I did not drill down into these courses but afaik, other firearms safety courses described at NM Game & Fish website**** do not suffice for HTA. Could be wrong.
my2ct.
__________________________
* https://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/22 Regular/bills/senate/SB0188.pdf
** "Safety training proposed for NM actors handling firearms"
Safety training proposed for NM actors handling firearms
*** 2005 Committee Substitute for HB0641JCS
**** Hunter Education - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish

 

[mickey2942]

@al66pine The only reason for requiring education/training on firearms for actors is that if there was documentation that AB had received training on handling guns, and Halyna Hutchins was killed after the training, there is a clear line to charge him with a crime.

In the current case, there was no legal requirement for AB to have any training on using firearms. So he can claim ignorance, and that gives him a clear pass.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

New production coming to NM. From Deadline:

" Sydney Sweeney, Halsey, Paul Walter Hauser, Simon Rex, Toby Huss, Gavin Maddox Bergman, Harriet Sansom Harris and newcomer Derek Hinkey are set to star in Tony Tost’s directorial debut National Anthem from Bron Studios."

"The film revolves around a gritty hunt for a valuable rare Lakota Native American Ghost Shirt. Some are hunting for fortune, others for personal freedom, while others simply want to return it properly to its home. No longer will the marginalized be ignored — all must learn to survive or else."

It'll be interesting to see if gunplay is involved and if so, how the crew handles it.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

From the Albuquerque Journal:

A union representing deputies sent a letter to Santa Fe County officials saying members had approved a vote of no confidence in Sheriff Adan Mendoza and listing complaints about his leadership.
...
The letter listed 14 allegations against Mendoza, including retaliation, failure to update policies, unfair discipline and promotion practices, high staff turnover, and continuation of “the Good Ol’ Boy system.”
...
Mendoza also said the letter unfairly blames him for staffing shortages and turnover in the sheriff’s office.

Deputies vote no confidence in Santa Fe County sheriff

He's up for reelection this year. Just what this situation needs, more complicating factors. There is a distinct possibility that we will never know what factors actually led up to the shooting.

 

[10ofRods]

@al66pine The only reason for requiring education/training on firearms for actors is that if there was documentation that AB had received training on handling guns, and Halyna Hutchins was killed after the training, there is a clear line to charge him with a crime.

In the current case, there was no legal requirement for AB to have any training on using firearms. So he can claim ignorance, and that gives him a clear pass.

I don't think it gives him a clear pass at all. Ignorance is not a defense in court.

The fact that he evaded training (and technologies) that would have taught him that letting go the hammer would fire a round...well, if I were on a jury, I'd think that was grossly negligent of him.

I do think the trier of fact in this case (if it ever gets to a trial) will decide.

Meanwhile, AB is in London, doing whatever. That makes me think no criminal charges are imminent,

 

[10ofRods]

If New Mexico has no laws regulating the presence of trained armorers and other staff on the set, it puts all the responsibility on the actors. Actors are actors, not armorers. That's why they hire experts for those jobs. It's called "division of labor".

division of labour

This guy might accomplish something good if he proposed regulations on movie companies to have fully qualified and experienced armorers on the set and to forbid the companies from assigning them other responsibilities.

Good points. I think that since so many small LLC's are being used (in the film business) as tax shelters/evasion schemes, New Mexico might want each film production company to have to name one of its production LLC's as the primary employer and primary regulator for the workplace. Allowing Rust to have 5-6 different production companies with no clear chain of communication or command from hiring entity to employee is part of the problem here.

Who was in charge, ultimately? The civil cases will reveal a lot about this question if they ever go to trial (I look for them to settle with strict NDA's).

 

[Arkay]

Alec Baldwin posts 'very sad' video, says his wife and kids are all he has in emotional confession

I can't believe this guy is unable to contain himself and to keep these thoughts private.
Whether or not he is legally guilty of killing Halyna, how painful must this be to her family.
He goes on and on about the importance of his family, how he is miserable when he's away from them, how his children "mesmerize"him. How he lives to be with his family. Six minutes of this.

While Halyna will never return to her family.

 

[Dotta]

Alec Baldwin's inclusion in Colorado film festival sparks backlash on Twitter

 

[Luna20]

Alec Baldwin posts 'very sad' video, says his wife and kids are all he has in emotional confession

I can't believe this guy is unable to contain himself and to keep these thoughts private.
Whether or not he is legally guilty of killing Halyna, how painful must this be to her family.
He goes on and on about the importance of his family, how he is miserable when he's away from them, how his children "mesmerize"him. How he lives to be with his family. Six minutes of this.

While Halyna will never return to her family.

He doesn’t fly commercial, he is really carrying on a show for sympathy. It is rude and insensitive. He regularly has his eyes treated and it seems as though he is playing that up as well.

 

[Gardenista]

Alec Baldwin posts 'very sad' video, says his wife and kids are all he has in emotional confession

I can't believe this guy is unable to contain himself and to keep these thoughts private.
Whether or not he is legally guilty of killing Halyna, how painful must this be to her family.
He goes on and on about the importance of his family, how he is miserable when he's away from them, how his children "mesmerize"him. How he lives to be with his family. Six minutes of this.

While Halyna will never return to her family.

He has to keep rubbing it in, he can't help himself. So evil.

 

[cocomod]

Alec Baldwin posts 'very sad' video, says his wife and kids are all he has in emotional confession

I can't believe this guy is unable to contain himself and to keep these thoughts private.
Whether or not he is legally guilty of killing Halyna, how painful must this be to her family.
He goes on and on about the importance of his family, how he is miserable when he's away from them, how his children "mesmerize"him. How he lives to be with his family. Six minutes of this.

While Halyna will never return to her family.

I definitely am NOT and will NEVER be an Alex Baldwin fan. I do think he is playing to the press a bit, but to say that he doesn't have the right to miss his wife and kids is unfair. Halyna's death is beyond tragic. I can't even imagine how her family must feel. But, Hollywood is just plain ugly. Most people will not understand if you have never seen the actual filming side of things. Everyone seems to believe that actors are all glam and no problems. The opposite is true. Why do you think there is such a high divorce rate and addiction rate? Because it is an ugly industry!

Actors, prop masters, armorers, medics, set dressers, grips, carpenters... They are regularly expected to work unbelievable hours, they are away from home for months at a time, they work in terrible conditions (sometimes)... All to put a pretty picture on the screen for us. Yes, the actors have perks. Yes, it is not all doom and gloom. However, most people just do not understand what it is like behind the camera, just like most people do not understand other people's home life behind the doors. My husband often leaves at 5:00 a.m. and doesn't return home until 9:00 - 10:00 p.m. Sometimes they work over night to get the lighting right. The set he is on right now has no heat or a/c. They are expected to rely on people they may have just met for this new film. They rely on these people to do the job they were hired to do, and they rely on them to do it right. I still hold the AD and the armorer more responsible for this. I know the armorer had complained that they were asking her to do more, but she should have held her ground. My husband has walked off of the set for less.

Even IF an actor has gun training - which I think wouldn't be a bad thing at all - they are still relying on the professional in charge of the guns to do their job properly. They are relying on the AD to do their job right. Should Alex have checked the gun before handling?? ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY! But, personally I find more fault with the known-to-be-callous AD and the armorer that was in over her head (but had grown up in the business). She flat out admits she knew what her job is. What happens often in Hollywood is a tragedy spurs change. I hope that with Halyna's death, there comes very needed change. Look at all of the sexual abuse claims and incidents! This went on for decades. This is because as I said, Hollywood is just plain ugly in many, many ways. Change is finally coming about. The producers on this film were asking more from the set crew than the crew was willing to do, so some walked. This was the right answer.

 

[wary]

I definitely am NOT and will NEVER be an Alex Baldwin fan. I do think he is playing to the press a bit, but to say that he doesn't have the right to miss his wife and kids is unfair. Halyna's death is beyond tragic. I can't even imagine how her family must feel. But, Hollywood is just plain ugly. Most people will not understand if you have never seen the actual filming side of things. Everyone seems to believe that actors are all glam and no problems. The opposite is true. Why do you think there is such a high divorce rate and addiction rate? Because it is an ugly industry!

Actors, prop masters, armorers, medics, set dressers, grips, carpenters... They are regularly expected to work unbelievable hours, they are away from home for months at a time, they work in terrible conditions (sometimes)... All to put a pretty picture on the screen for us. Yes, the actors have perks. Yes, it is not all doom and gloom. However, most people just do not understand what it is like behind the camera, just like most people do not understand other people's home life behind the doors. My husband often leaves at 5:00 a.m. and doesn't return home until 9:00 - 10:00 p.m. Sometimes they work over night to get the lighting right. The set he is on right now has no heat or a/c. They are expected to rely on people they may have just met for this new film. They rely on these people to do the job they were hired to do, and they rely on them to do it right. I still hold the AD and the armorer more responsible for this. I know the armorer had complained that they were asking her to do more, but she should have held her ground. My husband has walked off of the set for less.

Even IF an actor has gun training - which I think wouldn't be a bad thing at all - they are still relying on the professional in charge of the guns to do their job properly. They are relying on the AD to do their job right. Should Alex have checked the gun before handling?? ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY! What happens often in Hollywood is a tragedy spurs change. I hope that with Halyna's death, there comes very needed change. Look at all of the sexual abuse claims and incidents! This went on for decades. This is because as I said, Hollywood is just plain ugly in many, many ways. Change is finally coming about. The producers on this film were asking more from the set crew than the crew was willing to do, so some walked. This was the right answer.

I think that the problem isn’t that he’s missing his wife and children—that’s human and understandable. The problem is that he’s advertising it to the world, at a time when it would be much more tactful to be silent.

 

[cocomod]

I think that the problem isn’t that he’s missing his wife and children—that’s human and understandable. The problem is that he’s advertising it to the world, at a time when it would be much more tactful to be silent.

I think in his mind, he is on PR alert. He is trying hard to change perceptions and let people know he is just human. However, it is backfiring because he is just a complete A-hole and jerk.

 

[Arkay]

I think that the problem isn’t that he’s missing his wife and children—that’s human and understandable. The problem is that he’s advertising it to the world, at a time when it would be much more tactful to be silent.

Yes.

@cocomod I have no doubt that as an electrician or lighting director in the film industry, your husband works very hard and endures these difficult conditions, likely to support your family. Hopefully he also enjoys his work.

You know better than I do, though, that the actors, the "talent," do not labor under the same conditions as your husband. Especially a a long-time superstar whose name alone can open a movie, like Alec Baldwin.

AB probably worked for a couple of hours and in as luxurious a trailer as they could provide. He just has to show up for rehearsal and filming and then he retreats from the set.

I have no problem with him missing his family when he is away from them. It's good to be a loving and caring father. However, unlike the rest of us, Alec Baldwin does not need to work anymore to support his family. He has many many many millions of dollars, multiple homes, nannies and so on. If he's working away from home it's because he chose to do so.


My issue with him, my enormous issue with him, is how he PUBLICLY goes on about the closeness and love in his family. IMO this is completely tone-deaf when he shot a mother to death. Inadvertently, but she is just as dead as if he purposed to kill her.

It feels unseemly to me to do this in public when a man and child will never see their wife and mother again. Why isn't it enough to declare his love to his wife and children in private? Why rub salt into the wounds of Halyna's family by endlessly talking about his very large and full family when he knows their family is empty?

Again, he's not a working-class guy who must be away from his family to put bread on the table. He weighed the pros and cons of going and he opted to go.

I personally blame Hannah more than anyone else, but Alec is the one who is, IMO, making things worse for Halyna's husband and son.

I agree with you that he must be trying to get good PR by telling the world that he's just a humble family man who misses them terribly when he's away from them. I think that's a horrid call when Halyna's husband and son must miss her terribly, but have no hope of their family being restored.

IMO

 

[Luna20]

I think that the problem isn’t that he’s missing his wife and children—that’s human and understandable. The problem is that he’s advertising it to the world, at a time when it would be much more tactful to be silent.

How can he not know this is in such poor taste?? He’s an adult though apparently delusional. His wife and attorney seem oblivious to his behavior.

 

[Luna20]

Alec Baldwin laughs while revealing driver's car was STOLEN upon his arrival in the UK for new movie | Daily Mail Online

 

[al66pine]

Getting Gun. No Clearance Check.* Crim. Culpability?
Briefly. Iiuc after obtaining gun, not directly from the armorer, not as prescribed by movie or Rust standards, AB did not conduct a clearance check, did not ask armorer to check. Imo AB's failure to check may be criminal negligence in causing a death & serious injuries.

Not so briefly.
When the Rust death & injuries occurred in Oct, I was tempted to label AB a Grade A Nitwit for his actions consistent w criminally negligent homicide imo, but I held off. While awaiting further developments, I've read some very informative posts about the tv/movie biz. TYVM to our industry insiders.

Some posters said (my paraphrasing): his actions were not negligent, because he reasonably relied on other personnel to perform their assigned responsibilities. IDK if those others performed their tasks or not. Imo in this particular circumstance, their (hypo) failure to perform any/all their duties may be relevant, but should not be a/the decisive factor, in determining his criminal culpability, if any. If armorer's/anyone's failure to comply w safety procedures amounted to negligence, that failure alone would not have caused death & injuries. At least if AB had complied w safety procedures. AB's failure was the last negligent act before death & injuries.

Iirc AB picked up/accepted gun from someone other than the armorer/designated person, a transfer method which did not comply w either -
1. Plain old everyday ordinary firearm safety rules,* or
2. Industry/union standards (maybe Rust-specific rules/contract terms?) iiuc.

AB did not perform a clearance check** immediately.
Iiuc he did not ask armorer to check and verify that the appropriate __ (dummies, blanks, live rounds, whatever the script/doc's specified) were in gun.

Other factor relevant to AB's criminal culpability?
AB's Firearms experience/training, off-set or on-set? His filmography*** includes several movie/TV roles in which he handled firearms. As he's not a total firearm noob, seems unlikely he was unaware of the four top gun safety rules.*

Ultimately in ignoring one of the top firearm safety rules, he caused death & serious injuries to others imo. my2ct.

ETA: Not predicting that AB will face homicide trial, as it seems, imo, whatever crim charge is filed, it would be would be reduced to something similar to negligent discharge of firearm. Maybe resulting in a fine & community service?
Also not predicting outcomes of the various civil cases already filed.
___________________________________________
* Top Firearm Safety Rules
Click to enlarge.

ImageSource: Welcome, new gun owners!

Image Source: Gun Safety Rules – Know Them, Use Them!
** BTW, if AB had asked armorer/designated person to check firearm & verify the loads, and if they told him, gun is loaded correctly per script/docs, then my opinion likely changes.
By (hypo'ly) asking armorer to check, AB would have been trying to comply w the Treat-Your-Gun-As-Loaded Rule. He would have (hypo'ly) been trying to verify that gun had a non-lethal load.
*** AB's filmography:
Alec Baldwin - IMDb

 

[Luna20]

“We’ve been through a lot together” (together)

Hilaria Baldwin Shares Sweet Kiss with Husband Alec: 'We've Been Through a Lot Together'

 

[Antimony]

Actors undergoing a gun safety course? Good Idea! Requiring it for acting in a movie? Bad Idea! Cheap- producers would then not see a need for an armorer at all. Better to require a full time armorer to be on the set when the guns are to be handled and assign responsibility the senior management person on the set for safety.
Write it in the law.

 

[Antimony]

The Insurance and Bonding companies could help a lot by setting rules for armorers and firearms and explosives on the set. AB would have paid more attention if his money was on the line.
No Armorer and designated responsibility, No Policy.