Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #5

[happyday]

Personally I think the only way for these type of incidents to not happen on sets is for no real firearms to be used as props. Period. You can assign responsibility and liability and rules about how to handle guns on set and require actors to receive training all day long. But humans being humans means there will still be errors, and accidents will occasionally still happen. When you’re dealing with guns and blanks and dummies and HUMANS you will absolutely have errors. I see no need for real guns to ever be used in a film or tv. Some say it’s just not the same, but I say it can be made to be almost the same with quality props and post production special effects. It can totally be done and if everyone is doing it we will probably never notice the difference. It will be just how it is—make believe. Good enough for me to save human lives.

I think it will take an industry ban of actors using real, working firearms in productions or this will continue to happen no matter what kinds of regulations are put in place. Maybe SAG could make a rule for their actors? I don’t really know what level would need to ban it, but IMO it’s the only way. It’s just not NECESSARY to me and not worth the risks.

 

[Marysmith]

Personally I think the only way for these type of incidents to not happen on sets is for no real firearms to be used as props. Period. You can assign responsibility and liability and rules about how to handle guns on set and require actors to receive training all day long. But humans being humans means there will still be errors, and accidents will occasionally still happen. When you’re dealing with guns and blanks and dummies and HUMANS you will absolutely have errors. I see no need for real guns to ever be used in a film or tv. Some say it’s just not the same, but I say it can be made to be almost the same with quality props and post production special effects. It can totally be done and if everyone is doing it we will probably never notice the difference. It will be just how it is—make believe. Good enough for me to save human lives.

I think it will take an industry ban of actors using real, working firearms in productions or this will continue to happen no matter what kinds of regulations are put in place. Maybe SAG could make a rule for their actors? I don’t really know what level would need to ban it, but IMO it’s the only way. It’s just not NECESSARY to me and not worth the risks.

Completely agree. It’s totally unnecessary to use real guns.

 

[Kiranerys]

Personally I think the only way for these type of incidents to not happen on sets is for no real firearms to be used as props. Period. You can assign responsibility and liability and rules about how to handle guns on set and require actors to receive training all day long. But humans being humans means there will still be errors, and accidents will occasionally still happen. When you’re dealing with guns and blanks and dummies and HUMANS you will absolutely have errors. I see no need for real guns to ever be used in a film or tv. Some say it’s just not the same, but I say it can be made to be almost the same with quality props and post production special effects. It can totally be done and if everyone is doing it we will probably never notice the difference. It will be just how it is—make believe. Good enough for me to save human lives.

I think it will take an industry ban of actors using real, working firearms in productions or this will continue to happen no matter what kinds of regulations are put in place. Maybe SAG could make a rule for their actors? I don’t really know what level would need to ban it, but IMO it’s the only way. It’s just not NECESSARY to me and not worth the risks.

Totally agree. I genuinely thought they used props the whole time until this happened.
Bit of a crass analogy here but they don't actually have sex for a sex scene and no one complains it doesn't seem real enough!

 

[happyday]

Totally agree. I genuinely thought they used props the whole time until this happened.
Bit of a crass analogy here but they don't actually have sex for a sex scene and no one complains it doesn't seem real enough!

Right!!!! Lol. It’s a good analogy though. No one would even consider doing that because my god, what if someone got pregnant? Or an incurable disease???? Accidental DEATH from a real gun instead of a fake one is even worse!

 

[al66pine]

... He regularly has his eyes treated and it seems as though he is playing that up as well.

@Luna20 sbm
Sorry, not following ^bbm.
Meaning, what treatment????
@Luna20 Or anyone??? Thx in adv.

 

[GatorFL]

Completely agree. It’s totally unnecessary to use real guns.

As a counterpoint there have been very few fatal accidents with guns on movie sets. In my lifetime I can only think of 3:

Jon-Erik Hexum (he was to blame)
Brandon Lee (accidental death due to someone else's negligence)
Halyna Hutchins (accidental death due to someone else's negligence)

While no death is acceptable the number of fatal accidents is fairly low.

 

[Cool Cats]

‘Rust’ Set Medic Sues Crew Members in Shooting of Cinematographer

The medic who rushed to help “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after Hutchins was shot on set last fall has filed a negligence lawsuit against several crew members and the film’s production entity.

Cherlyn Schaefer was summoned to the church building at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe, N.M., on Oct. 21, after the film’s star, Alec Baldwin, shot Hutchins and director Joel Souza while preparing for a scene. Schaefer attended to Hutchins until a helicopter arrived, supplying her with oxygen and applying direct pressure to Hutchins’ wound.

In the suit, Schaefer alleges she has suffered “tremendous shock, trauma and severe emotional distress” as a result of Hutchins’ death, and has been medically unable to return to work.

Schaefer is the fourth crew member to file suit following the shooting. The suit alleges negligence on the part of several crew members who were tasked with handling firearms, including armorer Hannah Reed Gutierrez, first assistant director Dave Halls, ammunition supplier Seth Kenney and prop master Sarah Zachry.

The suit also names Bonanza Creek Ranch and Rust Movie Productions LLC as defendants — though it does not accuse Baldwin or any of the other producers individually.

 

[Luna20]

@Luna20 sbm
Sorry, not following ^bbm.
Meaning, what treatment????
@Luna20 Or anyone??? Thx in adv.

It’s a condition “fatty pockets” (Xanthelasma) having nothing to do with being overweight. A small incision is made on the inside lower lid to remove the excess tissue. Eventually the skin does stretch from it which a PS can easily fix via Blepharoplasty.

 

[al66pine]

New Law Needed? Leading Cause of Deaths On-Set?

As a counterpoint there have been very few fatal accidents with guns on movie sets. In my lifetime I can only think of 3:...
While no death is acceptable the number of fatal accidents is fairly low.

@GatorFL bbm Thanks for your post driving me to check further, starting at wiki listing, both w & w'out guns.*

Earliest fatal accident on-set, w firearms, was in 1915** (at least per this wiki article). The article shows only a few more deaths. Sorry did not count. The entire article w list is an interesting read.

Other personnel such as camera crew & stunt people have suffered accidental deaths on-set. Firearms deaths are lower than aircraft death, both fixed wing & helicopters. In 10 years btwn 1980 & 1990, of 37 on-set accidental deaths, 24 deaths involved the use of helicopters. The list covering more than 100 yrs showed numerous fire deaths out pacing gunfire deaths.***

If meant to reduce on-set movie deaths, a new law banning helicopters
**** might save more lives than banning or regulating firearms on-set. my2cts.

______________________________
* wiki.com article:
List of film and television accidents - Wikipedia.

** Wiki list, an interesting read. The earliest:
"'The Captive (1915). During filming of a scene where soldiers were required to break down a locked door, the extras fired at the door using live ammunition to give the scene more realism." "Director Cecil B. DeMille then ordered the extras to reload with blanks in order to film the next shot in which the door is broken down. One of the extras inadvertently left a live round in his rifle which discharged, shooting another extra, Charles Chandler, in the head, killing him instantly.[6]" bbm
^ List of film and television accidents - Wikipedia.

*** Other personnel deaths in 2014 article:
"Safety On Set: Camera Crew Outnumber Stunt Personnel 4-To-1 In On-Set Deaths
"Stunt drivers have helmets, roll bars, air bags and five-point safety harnesses to help keep them safe. All that a cameraman has between him and an oncoming speeding stunt car is his camera. It’s why so many cameramen and their assistants have gotten killed on film and TV productions... " bbm
^ Safety On Set: Camera Crew Outnumber Stunt Personnel 4-To-1 In On-Set Deaths

**** "From 1980 to 1990, there were 37 deaths relating to accidents during stunts; 24 of these deaths involved the use of helicopters.[1]"
^ wiki.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

Reed and prop master Sarah Zachry failed to ensure there were no live rounds in the weapon, according to the lawsuit, and at one point “mixed rounds of ammunition from different boxes together and transported the mixed ammunition loose in fanny packs.”

The lawsuit also accuses Bonanza Creek Ranch and Bonanza Creek Film Locations of negligence, claiming ranch representative Shannon Hughes was on set nearly every day and routinely objected to production members speeding on the property but failed to enforce the ranch’s own policy of prohibiting “unauthorized” firearms on premises. BBM

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

 

[happyday]

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

Reed and prop master Sarah Zachry failed to ensure there were no live rounds in the weapon, according to the lawsuit, and at one point “mixed rounds of ammunition from different boxes together and transported the mixed ammunition loose in fanny packs.”

The lawsuit also accuses Bonanza Creek Ranch and Bonanza Creek Film Locations of negligence, claiming ranch representative Shannon Hughes was on set nearly every day and routinely objected to production members speeding on the property but failed to enforce the ranch’s own policy of prohibiting “unauthorized” firearms on premises. BBM

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

Wow it really sounds like this production was out of control and off the rails in every way. Good grief.

 

[PrairieWind]

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

Reed and prop master Sarah Zachry failed to ensure there were no live rounds in the weapon, according to the lawsuit, and at one point “mixed rounds of ammunition from different boxes together and transported the mixed ammunition loose in fanny packs.”

The lawsuit also accuses Bonanza Creek Ranch and Bonanza Creek Film Locations of negligence, claiming ranch representative Shannon Hughes was on set nearly every day and routinely objected to production members speeding on the property but failed to enforce the ranch’s own policy of prohibiting “unauthorized” firearms on premises. BBM

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

We will see how this pans out. If there are limited funds available to pay claims, then courts (perhaps a bankruptcy court) will have to prioritize those claims. I think this one will fall a little further down. As for the unauthorized guns, we heard early on about people, crew plinking with guns on off hours. But I thought I heard that the Sheriff's Office could not substantiate that that had actually happened.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

We will see how this pans out. If there are limited funds available to pay claims, then courts (perhaps a bankruptcy court) will have to prioritize those claims. I think this one will fall a little further down. As for the unauthorized guns, we heard early on about people, crew plinking with guns on off hours. But I thought I heard that the Sheriff's Office could not substantiate that that had actually happened.

I wonder if the medic who is suing witnessed people using their personal firearms during off hours? JMO.

 

[al66pine]

1. Key Medic's Duties? 2. Injuries? 3. $ Damages?

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work ...'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

@RANCH sbm thanks for sharing link, w image of 29 page Original Complaint of Plaintiff CS.*
1. Duties. Not a medic. The key medic. Providing water, sunscreen, bug spray, & minor first aid to cast & crew, calling first responders for serious injuries. ** ¶138, 139
Sequence of events that day includes CS seeing "two gun shot wound victims" & putting "pressure on her wounds, giving her oxygen, checking her vitals." ** ¶140 - 146
CS "suffered tremendous shock, trauma, and severe emotional distress as a result..." ¶147.

Pre-Rust, Plaintiff CS was regularly employed as film medic. ¶148.
CS’s "trauma and severe emotional distress has affected all aspects of her life and has medically prevented her from returning to her chosen profession." ¶149.

2. Plaintiff's claimed injuries, the basis for $ damages:
Past & future lost earnings and earning capacity, mental health medical expenses, emotional trauma & suffering, & loss of enjoyment of life. Medically disqualified from returning to work or any other form of gainful employment since the shooting. Ongoing medical care & treatment of qualified medical professionals, including therapists & others. ¶150 -¶152.

3. Plaintiff CS claims damages. ¶153.
PRAYER FOR RELIEF. p. 28
Compensatory, actual & special damages to be proven;
Punitive damages pursuant to NM Jury Instructions.
Costs and fees associated with this lawsuit;
Interest as provided by law.
__________________________
* 'Rust' Set Medic Sues Crew Members for Negligence in Shooting - Variety Feb 7, Variety
** Excerpts from Complaint:
¶132.... was the key medic on the set of Rust." p. 14.
¶138. Duties as key medic... p. 14.
¶139. Responsible for call for first responders if serious injury." p. 15
¶ 140 -146. Sequence of events summary. She was near the church, heard gunfire & radio calls for medic, entered church, saw two gun shot wound victims, called first responders, "provided immediate emergency medical assistance" to HH who was more seriously injured than Joel S; tried to save HH’s life put "pressure on her wounds, giving her oxygen, checking her vitals." p. 15.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

'Rust' medic's lawsuit alleges trauma from shooting put her out of work

Interesting paragraph in the complaint: the plaintiff alleges that

204. Despite written notice to preserve all potentially relevant evidence, Defendant Seth Kenney and/or PDQ Arm & Prop,LLC intentionally disposed of, destroyed, and/or significantly altered crucial evidence to this lawsuit, including the remaining live ammunition of reloaded rounds in Starline Brass casings that he received from Thell Reed that matched the live ammunition of reloaded rounds in Starline Brass casing she provided to Rust.

If true, this means that no forensic analysis can prove that the (alleged) live Starline-cased rounds confiscated on the set came from the bucket of rounds Thall Reed allegedly provided to Kenney. Not good.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

1. Key Medic's Duties? 2. Injuries? 3. $ Damages?

This article describes a key medic's duties somewhat differently than the complaint:

https://www.hmpgloballearningnetwork.com/site/emsworld/article/11079069/lightscameramedic

According to the above, a key medic is more of a supervisor than a hands-on EMT. There are also supposed to be "set medics" who are the actual emergency personnel and "off production medics" who are present while sets are constructed and taken down. Did this production only have one medic for all these jobs?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Interesting paragraph in the complaint: the plaintiff alleges that

204. Despite written notice to preserve all potentially relevant evidence, Defendant Seth Kenney and/or PDQ Arm & Prop,LLC intentionally disposed of, destroyed, and/or significantly altered crucial evidence to this lawsuit, including the remaining live ammunition of reloaded rounds in Starline Brass casings that he received from Thell Reed that matched the live ammunition of reloaded rounds in Starline Brass casing she provided to Rust.

If true, this means that no forensic analysis can prove that the (alleged) live Starline-cased rounds confiscated on the set came from the bucket of rounds Thall Reed allegedly provided to Kenney. Not good.

I wonder if most of that reloaded ammunition was consumed by innocent means like target practice before the production of "Rust" took place.

That would still fit the lawsuits description of "disposed of, destroyed, and/or significantly altered". JMO.

 

[al66pine]

Intentional Spoliation of Ammo Evd?

Interesting paragraph in the complaint: the plaintiff alleges that

204. Despite written notice to preserve all potentially relevant evidence, Defendant Seth Kenney and/or PDQ Arm & Prop,LLC intentionally disposed of, destroyed, and/or significantly altered crucial evidence to this lawsuit, including the remaining live ammunition of reloaded rounds in Starline Brass casings that he received from Thell Reed that matched the live ammunition of reloaded rounds in Starline Brass casing she provided to Rust.
If true, this means that no forensic analysis can prove that the (alleged) live Starline-cased rounds confiscated on the set came from the bucket of rounds Thall Reed allegedly provided to Kenney. Not good.

@DI_Isokawa
bbm Thanks for your post. Agreeing w you, but "intentional" may be a high bar in this circumstance.

I wonder -
¶201. On Oct. 6 on-set, to whom did LE make it "clear" that crim & civil lit were "highly likely?"
Complaint says "everybody involved." Who is everyone? Seems like ppl would come & go thru the day, so may be difficult for Plaintiff to prove that LE told "everyone."
Will LEO's reports support this, by naming each person they questioned?
Who on-set would have been responsible for a role call, if any? And for documenting those present/absent? Are there separate role calls/documents - one for union to track times & hours; another for talent; one for other employees?

¶203. When did Rust prod. co. sent letters to "its employees"?
COUNT VII: INTENTIONAL SPOLIATION OF EVIDENCE Against Defendants Rust Movie Productions, LLC, PDO [sic] Arm & Prop. LLC and Seth Kenney.

Letters to Whom?
For this spoliation count, besides def Rust prod co, the other two def's are PDQ & Seth Kenney, owner of PDQ. Seems unlikely imo Seth is employee, seems to be just a vendor, so imo seems unlikely Rust would send letter (per ¶203) to Seth as employee, or to PDQ.
I may have missed relevant Complaint ¶s on this.

When did plaintiff's firm send letters? To whom? Complaint, filed Feb 4.

Just considering possibilities. my2ct.
_________________________________
* Image of Complaint is shown in 'Rust' Set Medic Sues Crew Members for Negligence in Shooting - Variety Feb 7, Variety.
Per ¶201, "Law enforcement were immediately present at the location of the shooting making clear to everyone involved that criminal or civil litigation was highly likely, if not certain." bbm
Per ¶203, Def. Rust prod. co. "sent its own preservation and litigation hold letter to its employees demanding preservation of evidence and potential evidence." bbm

 

[al66pine]

Personally I think the only way for these type of incidents to not happen on sets is for no real firearms to be used as props. Period. You can assign responsibility and liability and rules about how to handle guns on set and require actors to receive training all day long. But humans being humans means there will still be errors, and accidents will occasionally still happen. When you’re dealing with guns and blanks and dummies and HUMANS you will absolutely have errors...

... @happyday bbm sbm for focus. Thank you for posting. Not sure if a firearm/ammo ban on-set is the answer. But agreeing that new laws mandating training/expanding civil liability, no matter how Draconian, will not prevent all firearm deaths & injuries on-set in the future. As you say, humans & error.

The proposed NM law* would require training for employees on-set, when firearms/ammo are present.
Consequences for failure to comply? Film prod co. does not receive tax credits. Teeth in this bill may appear to be big, sharp pointy choppers. Theoretically, anyway. my2ct.
__________________________________
* "A film production company that employs individuals not in compliance with the provisions of Subsection A of this section shall not be eligible for tax credits pursuant to the Film Production Tax Credit Act,..."
^ https://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/22 Regular/bills/senate/SB0188.pdf

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Alec Baldwin mistaken for 'hobo' by bemused residents of Hampshire town | Daily Mail Online

blah blah blah……