Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[Deleted member 158085]

You can ignore all the executive producers - they're essentially just investors. AB is named first in the list of producers on IMDb, he owns the production company making the movie, El Dorado Pictures, and he was a producer on set so could not have been unaware of all the safety and crew problems. He was not just a jobbing actor on this particular production. He and his company bear a lot of responsibility for safety on set. Many people producing the film will be scrutinised here and rightfully so.

His production company is one of about 6 responsible for the making of this film, though, right?

 

[DWebster]

I agree. Safety protocols are internal rules to the film industry, whereas criminal law doesn't deal with safety protocols, it deals with who actually committed actions like loading a gun.

... or pointing it at another human and cocking the hammer and pulling the trigger... whether you thought it was clear or not.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I'm sure in the past it would have been very expensive to make replicas that do not have the capability of firing a thing (I think even blanks are unnecessary- make that barrel solid so no kind of projectile can be ejected ever), but with 3d printing, I'm guessing it's not cost prohibitive any longer. It would require a talented person to finish it up with painting to get the right look. But hell, I bet even my semi-creative butt could master that. I have a friend who creates all sorts of steam punk gear from scratch, including incredibly realistic looking and beautiful "guns." He's quite the artist, and he's just a hobbyist.

 

[Cryptic]

Bottom line, as far as we know, AB pointed a gun at a human being, which should never be done unless you intend to harm them.

You are right about that being the fundamental rule about guns. But.... there are exceptions to every rule.

Actors routinely point- and actually fire weapons at people that they do not intent to harm.

Though some sources say that actors will aim slightly off a person as a safety measure, I dont know if this is truly done or if all actors have the skill to truly do it.

In this case, Baldwin was handed a weapon by somebody who also informed him via set jargon that the weapon was neither loaded with live rounds nor with blanks. Being handed the weapon and being informed of its status strongly suggests that Baldwin's purpose was to enact a designated scene and was following procedure.

Baldwin did not say, get bored, walk over to the armorer's table, pick up a weapon of unknown status with out permission and start to play around with it.

Arguably, Baldwin should have checked the weapon himself prior to "using" it. My guess is that film sets do not require the safety step is because movies use a large variety of guns and the level of familiarity with guns by actors can range from comprehensive to non existent.

Expecting someone with very little knowledge about guns trying to determine whether or not a particular weapon is loaded- and if so loaded with what, can be very hazardous in and of itself.

 

[Cryptic]

Bottom line, as far as we know, AB pointed a gun at a human being, which should never be done unless you intend to harm them.

You are right about that being the fundamental rule about guns. But.... there are exceptions to every rule.

Actors routinely point- and actually fire weapons at people that they do not intent to harm.

Though some sources say that actors will aim slightly off a person as a safety measure, I dont know if this is truly done or if all actors have the skill to truly do it.

In this case, Baldwin was handed a weapon by somebody who also informed him via set jargon that the weapon was neither loaded with live rounds nor with blanks. Being handed the weapon and being informed of its status strongly suggests that Baldwin's purpose was to enact a designated scene and was following procedure.

Baldwin did not say, get bored, walk over to the armorer's table, pick up a weapon of unknown status with out permission and start to play around with it.

Arguably, Baldwin should have checked the weapon himself prior to "using" it. My guess is that film sets do not require the safety step is because movies use a large variety of guns and the level of familiarity with guns by actors can range from comprehensive to non existent.

Expecting someone with very little knowledge about guns trying to determine whether or not a particular weapon is loaded- and if so loaded with what, can be very hazardous in and of itself.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

His production company is one of about 6 responsible for the making of this film, though, right?

Yes, that's right.

Baldwin is producing under his El Dorado Pictures banner along with Matt DelPiano through his Cavalry Media, Ryan Donnell Smith through Thomasville Pictures, Anjul Nigam of Brittany House Pictures and Ryan Winterstern and Nathan Klingher of Short Porch Pictures. Allen Cheney, Emily Hunter Salveson, Christopher M.B. Sharp, and Jennifer E. Lamb are EPs. BondIt Media Capital and Hunter Salveson and Donnell Smith’s Streamline Global are financing.

Female Crewmember Dies After Prop Gun Misfire On New Mexico Set Of ‘Rust’ – Deadline

 

[IceIce9]

The armorer of Alec Baldwin's film Rust, gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress before, sources say | Daily Mail Online

The 24-year-old armorer who worked on Rust gave a child actress a gun without checking it on a previous film set, two production sources who worked with her said.

The two sources told The Daily Beast that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed had allegedly given an 11-year-old actress a gun without checking it properly while on the set of the Nicholas Cage film, The Old Way.

'There were a couple times she was loading the blanks and doing it in a fashion that we thought was unsafe,' one of the sources said.

Yet people are quick to blame Baldwin. SMH

 

[DWebster]

Yet people are quick to blame Baldwin. SMH

They ALL made mistakes, were sloppy, and didn't follow protocol.
The armorer, the AD, and the actor all are to blame.

Yet some people are so quick to let Baldwin (actor, producer, owner) completely off the hook. SMH.

imo.

 

[shotgun09]

Yet people are quick to blame Baldwin. SMH

Of course people blame Baldwin! He pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. Please observe the title of this thread!

Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing one on movie set, Oct 2021

Obviously, as more information has come through, there is much more to the story. Others may be just as culpable.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, that's right.

Baldwin is producing under his El Dorado Pictures banner along with Matt DelPiano through his Cavalry Media, Ryan Donnell Smith through Thomasville Pictures, Anjul Nigam of Brittany House Pictures and Ryan Winterstern and Nathan Klingher of Short Porch Pictures. Allen Cheney, Emily Hunter Salveson, Christopher M.B. Sharp, and Jennifer E. Lamb are EPs. BondIt Media Capital and Hunter Salveson and Donnell Smith’s Streamline Global are financing.

Female Crewmember Dies After Prop Gun Misfire On New Mexico Set Of ‘Rust’ – Deadline

So many producers and yet so little money.

 

[Kiranerys]

He's also an owner of one of the production companies - so there's that.

Also, they weren't even filming a scene and there was no scene in which anyone aimed a gun at the camera or the director or the camera person. They were rehearsing a scene wherein Alec's character walked backward out of a church, holding a gun in his hand, pointing forward. From an angle.

You are absolutely right - and there was no armourer on the roster (bad) and absolutely no scripted scene where Baldwin's character shoots at a camera, or toward a camera...



No, she did not have a license and was not a member of the Propmasters Union. She was a scab, to put it bluntly. And she didn't think she had the experience to do it:

Head armorer on Alec Baldwin movie 'Rust' was "nervous" about experience level before taking job

In short, she was a "faux" armourer, because they wanted the film to be on schedule and it was a very, very cheap production. A vanity production, IMO.

I haven't been able to find anything regarding her having a licence yet which is why I've not replied back here yet but I just wanted to address the use of the quotes about her saying she didn't believe she was ready to take on the job as head armourer, this quote is being used in relation to this production but that isn't right. She was talking about her previous job on a Nicholas Cage film,which she said went smoothly after it had wrapped. I think it's important to separate the 2.
This doesn't mean that I believe she was entirely competent but, as I said in my previous post,we all have to start somewhere and none of us are experienced until we are. Sadly inexperience this time has had tragic consequences but there will be probably thousands of examples where things ran smoothly with someone learning on the job.
So many factors here contributed to this tragic and,yes, completely avoidable accident and if they hadn't none of us would have even heard of Hannah GR or her ability to do her job.

 

[mickey2942]

This is an interesting case, where the perpetrator, Alec Baldwin, has been made into a "victim" by media. The "spin" has been, "ABB" Anyone But Baldwin.

Articles have run the gamut. From blaming the Assistant Director, who has been quoted as saying. "Cold Gun", to focusing on the "Armorer".

One of the first cases I have seen where the actual shooter is deemed completely blameless.

 

[Dotta]

Father of Halyna Hutchins refuses to blame Baldwin, says it was the fault of movie armoury team | Daily Mail Online

Dad of Halyna doesnt blame AB

 

[Kiranerys]

Major eyeroll. If he cared, he would have led the walkout.

He supported it. We should also note that the victim herself also supported the walkout but ultimately she also made the decision to stay on set even though she had been campaigning for the cause, does the fact that she stayed on set mean she didn't care either?

 

[DWebster]

"Misfire" - is pulling the trigger, expecting the gun to fire, and NOTHING happens. Could be a problem with the weapon, or the ammo.

"Accidental fire" - is when someone fires a weapon when not intended to. Operator error. Like walking around with your finger on the trigger, and.. ooops.

The gun did not "misfire", and really wasn't "accidently" fired. It was fired intentionally, without being checked to see if it was safe.
Single action revolvers don't accidently fire themselves.
The hammer is manually cocked and then the trigger is pulled.

And why the heck was it pointed at a person?

And before someone says that they were filming him shooting at camera... my $500.00 Nikon D3300 has a remote option. You know that those high powered movie cameras have remote options. If that pistol was fired at the camera with a person or persons standing right there, yet another HUGE mistake made by either the person calling the shots.. or the person firing the weapon.. or both.

Many people have many things to answer for.

imo

 

[Kiranerys]

I trust your views and I'm very curious what you'd think if the real armourer didn't show up that day and instead of halting shooting, they grabbed a person who herself said she wasn't sure she knew what she was doing...who did this hasty employment of the person who is now the fall girl? It doesn't seem right to blame a person for doing a bad job, when they were hired and pressed into service in a capacity for which they were not prepared.

Head armorer on Alec Baldwin movie 'Rust' was "nervous" about experience level before taking job

Most places would place heavy blame on whoever did this hiring. A producer, HR, whatever...who was it? I want to know.



See, but then tiny actor-owned vanity companies would be out of business. And all the fun of watching Westerns would be gone. Nothing like a real Colt .45, and I hate filters, CGI, etc and can't get anyone I know to go see movies of that type with me (although...I will agree that the flashlights on the X-files started a great trend and no real flashlights are ever used any more).

There are airsoft Colts that look real - but the thing to do is to do what a friend of mine does; he works within the film industry and he plugs the chambers on old weapons so that no bullets can be put in them - then the heft and the beloved Colt 45 profile is there, but the sound effects are added later. If it's a rifle, a white puff of smoke is added, digitally. That I can handle. Older audiences (and Alec's audiences are not young) like seeing the "real deal." Same with war movies.

But there are ways of making it safe. This production was so cheap, it chose to cut corners in every possible direction. Not-very-experienced director, remote cheap location, mostly unknowns in the small cast - and the union workers finally walked off when their paychecks didn't go through and they were forced to sleep in cars (after being promised hotel rooms in Santa Fe). New arrangements were being made for them, that's true - but an hour away in Albuquerque, and they had to be on set at 4-5 am, so, yeah, they slept in their cars.

It is my belief that she was always the head armourer, she has been linked to the project since May,per her Instagram. She wasn't a last minute replacement due to the walkout. She is not the fall girl,she took the job and signed the contract knowing what was expected of her,this was not her first rodeo (although it was only her second!).

 

[GatorFL]

It will definitely be interesting to see who gets charged and with what. The actor who shot Brandon Lee wasn’t charged with anything—there were no criminal charges at all in that case even though there was negligence because there wasn’t intent. Only the studio was charged with civil charges that were settled out court.
Actor who accidentally shot and killed Brandon Lee in 1993 movie set mishap was deeply affected

That was different though. There was no live ammunition in that case. In this one, there is. Someone, perhaps multiple people, are liable in this case. MOO

 

[GatorFL]

Father of Halyna Hutchins refuses to blame Baldwin, says it was the fault of movie armoury team | Daily Mail Online

Dad of Halyna doesnt blame AB

I wonder what he will say when his family files suit against AB and AB's production company.

 

[happyday]

That was different though. There was no live ammunition in that case. In this one, there is. Someone, perhaps multiple people, are liable in this case. MOO

Yes it was different, but they did find negligence but decided not to charge. We’ll see what happens here though.