Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[IceIce9]

Of course people blame Baldwin! He pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. Please observe the title of this thread!

Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing one on movie set, Oct 2021

Obviously, as more information has come through, there is much more to the story. Others may be just as culpable.

The inexperienced armourer is the one who made the error of preparing the gun with live ammunition.

 

[Marysmith]

Alec Baldwin ignored No. 1 rule of gun safety, expert says

Alec Baldwin, who accidentally killed his cinematographer on the set of his film “Rust,” should have never pointed a gun at another human, even if he believed it was safe, Hollywood safety experts told The Post.

“Loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Hollywood firearms consultant Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told The Post.

For safety, all live firearms used in TV and film productions are typically aimed at a dummy point, not at equipment, cast or crew, Carpenter noted. Guns, he said, are never aimed at a person.

“You never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy,” said Carpenter, whose New Orleans-based firm has worked on the sets of scores of TV and film productions. “All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

Totally get this. It seems the pointing was some setting up a camera scene and that’s how it was done… Unfortunately it seems the protocol is very different in the entertainment industry which is why an armorer is needed and an additional, maybe, ?, not sure, check. We will just have to wait for the police to do their job and decided what was breeched and went horribly wrong and what can be done better so this never happens again.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

And here's the thing. We can post about industry standards and guidelines until the cows come home and blame various folks for not following them. However, beyond the strictly technical jobs, like armourer, much of what is truly standard on these sets does not match any written "standards" or "guidelines" because we are dealing with a creative process.

I'm not saying the creative process is any kind of defense. I'm just saying it explains why reality vs guidelines are not followed.

For instance, we've seen people "in the know" say in interviews that it's standard not to shoot directly at the camera, and others who are equally in the know say that it actually is standard. Some say it's standard to operate the camera remotely at these times, while others tell us that in reality the people in these positions are actually right behind the camera watching and directing.

We may find out that one of the victims directed Baldwin to aim where he did! We just don't know yet. And if he was directed to do this, do we then blame the victims?

It is an unholy mess, for sure. Because the bottom line is that directors do what they want to do based on their individual creative processes and not on any guidelines. Based on all kinds of behind the scenes info we get from all sorts of movies, it can be dangerous. And you either do it or quit, apparently, because there's always someone to replace you in Hollywood.

 

[Dotta]

Jonathan Turley: Alec Baldwin shooting – what are the criminal and civil liabilities? | Fox News

 

[Gardenista]

Totally get this. It seems the pointing was some setting up a camera scene and that’s how it was done… Unfortunately it seems the protocol is very different in the entertainment industry which is why an armorer is needed and an additional, maybe, ?, not sure, check. We will just have to wait for the police to do their job and decided what was breeched and went horribly wrong and what can be done better so this never happens again.

The people quoted in the article are in the entertainment industry.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The inexperienced armourer is the one who made the error of preparing the gun with live ammunition.

Did the armourer place real ammunition into gun, or did someone else (since there were reports of recreational use), but the armourer failed to check it? I believe we don't yet know this yet?

I agree with those saying numerous people were negligent, IMO.

 

[Marysmith]

The people quoted in the article are in the entertainment industry.

Yes, I’m aware. And there are others in the entertainment industry saying the opposite as well. Lol. We all believe what we believe and IMO I don’t believe this was a malicious act.

 

[Shamrock1]

I wonder what he will say when his family files suit against AB and AB's production company.

It’s irrelevant. It would be a very minor point scored in a deposition. The father’s testimony would go mostly to damages, not liability. I’ve had plenty of cases where a family member defends* a company/person in the beginning. JMO.

ETA: “defends” meaning speak up for someone in media appearances or FB, for example - not “defend” in the legal sense.

 

[shotgun09]

Yes, I’m aware. And there are others in the entertainment industry saying the opposite as well. Lol. We all believe what we believe and IMO I don’t believe this was a malicious act.

I agree with you there! This act was not done maliciously at all! More likely it was negligence and carelessness, IMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Alec Baldwin assistant director had history of unsafe practices, prop maker says (nbcnews.com)

"Sets were almost always allowed to become increasingly claustrophobic, no established fire lanes, exits blocked," prop maker Maggie Goll said.

LOS ANGELES — The assistant director on the set of "Rust" where Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins had previously allowed an unsafe working environment on productions, according to a prop maker who worked with him.

Dave Halls "at first he seemed like an older, affable first [assistant director] with the usual run of idiosyncrasies, but that facade soon disappeared," according to prop maker Maggie Goll, who said she was called to work on Hulu's "Into the Dark" anthology series in February 2019.

"He did not maintain a safe working environment," Goll said in a detailed statement to NBC News. "Sets were almost always allowed to become increasingly claustrophobic, no established fire lanes, exits blocked ... safety meetings were nonexistent."...

 

[Dotta]

Yes, I’m aware. And there are others in the entertainment industry saying the opposite as well. Lol. We all believe what we believe and IMO I don’t believe this was a malicious act.

Lots of tragedies arent caused by Malice, but:
stupidity, negligence, arrogance, carelessness, thoughtlessness...
You name it.

Does it mean they are less tragic???

We say in my country:
One has to pay for one's stupidity.

 

[Marysmith]

Lots of tragedies arent caused by Malice, but:
stupidity, negligence, arrogance, carelessness, thoughtlessness...
You name it.
Does it mean they are less tragic???
We say in my country: One has to pay for one's stupidity.

I never said that. It’s extremely tragic and so senseless! Should never have happened!

 

[shotgun09]

Lots of tragedies arent caused by Malice, but:
stupidity, negligence, arrogance, carelessness, thoughtlessness...
You name it.
Does it mean they are less tragic???
We say in my country: One has to pay for one's stupidity.

I remember being a young adolescent, and being questioned by my parents over something " stupid" that I did... And, my dumb young response was..."But ,..I didn't know". I had to suffer the consequences of whatever it was that I did, because ( so I had learned) it was MY JOB to know.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I would like to make the point that, so far as I know, there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". The correct term is "negligent discharge". A gun never "accidentally" fires itself. The trigger must be pulled, or in the case of a single action revolver, the hammer must be pulled back and then released. This never happens accidentally, someone needs to do it manually. Guns do not fire themselves.

Sorry if I was inaccurate. I'm not familiar with guns at all and was just restating what the crew member in the article said.

 

[Warwick1991]

I'm sure in the past it would have been very expensive to make replicas that do not have the capability of firing a thing (I think even blanks are unnecessary- make that barrel solid so no kind of projectile can be ejected ever), but with 3d printing, I'm guessing it's not cost prohibitive any longer. It would require a talented person to finish it up with painting to get the right look. But hell, I bet even my semi-creative butt could master that. I have a friend who creates all sorts of steam punk gear from scratch, including incredibly realistic looking and beautiful "guns." He's quite the artist, and he's just a hobbyist.

Actually, non-firing metal replica firearms have been made for years, and are still available. They are often used in firearms instruction to limit risk, and have moving parts that can illustrate how a firearm works. They are relatively inexpensive. They could probably be used in films, with noise and muzzle dubbed in.

 

[Warwick1991]

Well there ya go. A couple of posters guessed this is what happened.

A rookie mistake is to not check to make sure a round is chambered.

For a Western-style single action revolver, like a Colt .45 reproduction, they would check the cylinder and rotate it to verify whether it was empty. However, if the intent was to have a blank inside, then it was also just as important to identify what kind of ammunition was being used.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Yes, I’m aware. And there are others in the entertainment industry saying the opposite as well. Lol. We all believe what we believe and IMO I don’t believe this was a malicious act.

Right. I think we need to acknowledge that there is not an industry standard that is followed in reality.

What we can hope is that there will be major fallout from this for the entire industry going forward.

And maybe AB's big name can help make this a reality in the future. Hopefully he and others will advocate for sweeping changes.

 

[Dotta]

I remember being a young adolescent, and being questioned by my parents over something " stupid" that I did... And, my dumb young response was..."But ,..I didn't know". I had to suffer the consequences of whatever it was that I did, because ( so I had learned) it was MY JOB to know.

Haha
Dont even remind ME of my foolish youthful mistakes!
But I paid for them with gritted teeth
I hope Im wiser now

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Alec Baldwin ignored No. 1 rule of gun safety, expert says

Alec Baldwin, who accidentally killed his cinematographer on the set of his film “Rust,” should have never pointed a gun at another human, even if he believed it was safe, Hollywood safety experts told The Post.

“Loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” Hollywood firearms consultant Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services told The Post.

For safety, all live firearms used in TV and film productions are typically aimed at a dummy point, not at equipment, cast or crew, Carpenter noted. Guns, he said, are never aimed at a person.

“You never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy,” said Carpenter, whose New Orleans-based firm has worked on the sets of scores of TV and film productions. “All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

Even if the director instructed Alec Baldwin to point the gun at himself AB should have declined to do it and ask for a remote camera.

Carpenter is right. Guns should never be pointed at anyone on set. JMO.

 

[Gardenista]

For a Western-style single action revolver, like a Colt .45 reproduction, they would check the cylinder and rotate it to verify whether it was empty. However, if the intent was to have a blank inside, then it was also just as important to identify what kind of ammunition was being used.

Do you know if you can distinguish whether it's a blank or not by spinning the cylinder and viewing what is loaded?