Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[Deleted member 158085]

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I trust your views and I'm very curious what you'd think if the real armourer didn't show up that day and instead of halting shooting, they grabbed a person who herself said she wasn't sure she knew what she was doing...who did this hasty employment of the person who is now the fall girl? It doesn't seem right to blame a person for doing a bad job, when they were hired and pressed into service in a capacity for which they were not prepared.

Head armorer on Alec Baldwin movie 'Rust' was "nervous" about experience level before taking job

Most places would place heavy blame on whoever did this hiring. A producer, HR, whatever...who was it? I want to know.



See, but then tiny actor-owned vanity companies would be out of business. And all the fun of watching Westerns would be gone. Nothing like a real Colt .45, and I hate filters, CGI, etc and can't get anyone I know to go see movies of that type with me (although...I will agree that the flashlights on the X-files started a great trend and no real flashlights are ever used any more).

There are airsoft Colts that look real - but the thing to do is to do what a friend of mine does; he works within the film industry and he plugs the chambers on old weapons so that no bullets can be put in them - then the heft and the beloved Colt 45 profile is there, but the sound effects are added later. If it's a rifle, a white puff of smoke is added, digitally. That I can handle. Older audiences (and Alec's audiences are not young) like seeing the "real deal." Same with war movies.

But there are ways of making it safe. This production was so cheap, it chose to cut corners in every possible direction. Not-very-experienced director, remote cheap location, mostly unknowns in the small cast - and the union workers finally walked off when their paychecks didn't go through and they were forced to sleep in cars (after being promised hotel rooms in Santa Fe). New arrangements were being made for them, that's true - but an hour away in Albuquerque, and they had to be on set at 4-5 am, so, yeah, they slept in their cars.

If I accept a job, I'm responsible for what I was hired to do. If I fail, that's my responsibility. That's how I operate in the real world in any job. I've been in too deep before but never blamed anyone else for the difficulties involved.

So that's my opinion on someone accepting a job they aren't confident they can successfully perform

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Not even the gospels contain "gospel truth." But I am glad the Sheriff swooped in immediately and took all cameras, digital equipment, prop guns and anything else he could think of. I also think the crew will spill its guts and it won't be pretty. The PR machinery is already trying to gear up, but this is a major crime and I do think we'll hear a little (settling for big bucks, out of court, will quiet everything down again - but eventually, someone will give an interview).

Almost no one working on this production is going to get another job, unless they were in the union and walked out to protest unsafe conditions, in which case they'll probably get lots of job offers (and we'll hear them speak).



They have. But everything I read characterizes this is as a very low budget production (and hastily put together too - it wasn't even on Alec's IMDB roster six months ago...and he hired himself and paid for it himself, so there's that).

Someone wanted "realism" and the feel of a real Colt .45 in his hand. Not an uncommon ask in the movie business. Although, it's often not a weapon - but a real "something else," like a real Simon game instead of the cheap new ones. Or the original Disney knick knacks from the 50's and 60's. Whole streets of stores selling that stuff here in "Hollywood" (SoCal).

My theory is that someone, somewhere, couldn't resist bringing real ammo to that gun, to see how it really shot - probably in the middle of the night, maybe at rabbits. No one would think a thing about hearing shots on a movie set and half of New Mexico does it anyway (shoots at night). It's fun and entertaining (to them). Someone forgot to unload (fell asleep?) Armourer doesn't know her job, is highly nervous on first day (especially as a scab) and the AD does something he's not supposed to do (hands the gun to the actor) and the actor then disobeys the union gun handling rules because he hasn't obeyed them in the past and it's been fine.

My speculation, anyway.

Link that shows the armouror is a scab? I have not read that. I could have sworn she was hired from the beginning based on other articles linked here.

 

[Dotta]

The armorer of Alec Baldwin's film Rust, gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress before, sources say | Daily Mail Online

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It would be very poor taste, INMO, to complete this film, given that the subject matter is about killing a person in an accidental shooting.

What we know about 'Rust,' Alec Baldwin film that resulted in fatal shooting

In the history of Hollywood accidental deaths, have any major productions ever been scrapped? It seems to me they never, or rarely, are. I remember being shocked that The Crow was ever released.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

The armorer of Alec Baldwin's film Rust, gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress before, sources say | Daily Mail Online

Alarming !

 

[Dotta]

Alarming !

Each new update is more alarming than the previous one!

 

[Satchie]

Not even the gospels contain "gospel truth." But I am glad the Sheriff swooped in immediately and took all cameras, digital equipment, prop guns and anything else he could think of. I also think the crew will spill its guts and it won't be pretty. The PR machinery is already trying to gear up, but this is a major crime and I do think we'll hear a little (settling for big bucks, out of court, will quiet everything down again - but eventually, someone will give an interview).

Almost no one working on this production is going to get another job, unless they were in the union and walked out to protest unsafe conditions, in which case they'll probably get lots of job offers (and we'll hear them speak)..

Yes, my thought about leaks from anonymous crew members is that there must be major butt-covering and finger-pointing happening, and I personally tend not to believe any one person's account of what went on before such an incident, until everyone has been heard.

 

[whitelilac]

The armorer of Alec Baldwin's film Rust, gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress before, sources say | Daily Mail Online

smh.....a child.

also:
" She was a bit careless with the guns, waving it around every now and again"
sure sets a lousy and flippant example for someone in charge of the guns and the safety protocol.

 

[Lilibet]

I trust your views and I'm very curious what you'd think if the real armourer didn't show up that day and instead of halting shooting, they grabbed a person who herself said she wasn't sure she knew what she was doing...who did this hasty employment of the person who is now the fall girl? It doesn't seem right to blame a person for doing a bad job, when they were hired and pressed into service in a capacity for which they were not prepared.

Head armorer on Alec Baldwin movie 'Rust' was "nervous" about experience level before taking job

Most places would place heavy blame on whoever did this hiring. A producer, HR, whatever...who was it? I want to know.
<Respectfully snipped for focus>

I don’t disagree with you about the person who did the hiring having some blame here. But Reed was the “real armorer” hired for “Rust.” I don’t see anywhere that she was a “scab” or a last minute replacement for a union employee who quit. It was only her second movie (after “The Old Way” with Nicholas Cage) and she had been careless with guns on the set of that movie movie, according to the link below.

'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed once gave unchecked gun to child actor

The “inexperienced” armorer in charge of weapons on set of Alec Baldwin’s movie “Rust” had given a gun to an 11-year-old actress without checking properly for safety, a report said
<snip>
Gutierrez-Reed’s alleged misstep happened on the set of the upcoming Nicholas Cage film, “The Old Way” and temporarily halted filming, sources told The Daily Beast.

She was reloading the gun on the ground, where there were pebbles and stuff,” one source told the outlet. “We didn’t see her check it, we didn’t know if something got in the barrel or not.”

Gutierrez-Reed reportedly handed the gun to child actress Ryan Kiera Armstrong, forcing concerned crew members to intervene, the report said. The gun was then checked for barrel obstruction, according to the sources.

Gutierrez-Reed, the daughter of experienced Hollywood armorer Thell Reed, also told the podcast that Rust was only her second film as a head armorer. The lead gun handler added that she was particularly nervous about loading blanks into props.

"I think loading blanks was the scariest thing to me because I was like 'oh, I don't know anything about it,'" she said. However, she added that her veteran father, helped to train her.

ETA: I see belatedly that @Dotta already posted another link about the previous movie this armorer worked on. I hadn’t read this far yet.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Seriously, I cannot wrap my head around one fact in particular. Why did the Assistant Director hand the gun to AB and not the ARMORER? Isn't that part of their 'chain of custody' (my term), as THEY are responsible for all weapons at all times? How does the AD get involved in that crucial business?

And btw, was that prop gun cart attended by the armorer at all times or was it unattended?

I'd be looking closer at Asst. Director Dave Halls. JMO

In the 'Rust' set shooting death, a sharpened focus on the assistant director

 

[Alethea]

The armorer of Alec Baldwin's film Rust, gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress before, sources say | Daily Mail Online

I liked this quote: "[The Armorer] also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear."

Nepotism strikes again! 24 year old armorer gets job because her dad is a famous armorer and movie consultant. Things go awry.

 

[BeachSky]

The armorer of Alec Baldwin's film Rust, gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress before, sources say | Daily Mail Online

I guess this armorer is taking all the heat.
Massive articles out today about her.
DBM cause I’m not sure I can say what I really think is happening.

MOO

 

[whitelilac]

a perfect storm....

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Seriously, I cannot wrap my head around one fact in particular. Why did the Assistant Director hand the gun to AB and not the ARMORER? Isn't that part of their 'chain of custody' (my term), as THEY are responsible for all weapons at all times? How does the AD get involved in that crucial business?

And btw, was that prop gun cart attended by the armorer at all times or was it unattended?

I'd be looking closer at Asst. Director Dave Halls. JMO

In the 'Rust' set shooting death, a sharpened focus on the assistant director

My understanding is the reason the AD is given the gun by the armorer instead of directly to the actor is that it's a additional safety measure where the AD checks the status and condition of the weapon in case the armorer screws up.

Apparently the AD in this case didn't check the gun properly. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I liked this quote: "[The Armorer] also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear."

Nepotism strikes again! 24 year old armorer gets job because her dad is a famous armorer and movie consultant. Things go awry.

I think she should have apprenticed with her dad for a while longer before going out on her own. JMO.

 

[Satchie]

I think she should have apprenticed with her dad for a while longer before going out on her own. JMO.

Who knows, maybe her father routinely used guns from the set for target practice, and failed to emphasize the importance of removing the live bullets before setting them out on a tray for use in the film...

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Who knows, maybe her father routinely used guns from the set for target practice, and failed to emphasize the importance of removing the live bullets before setting them out on a tray for use in the film...

That's possible.

But I haven't read about him having any problems on set and he hasn't had anyone die with his prop guns. JMO.

 

[happyday]

It will definitely be interesting to see who gets charged and with what. The actor who shot Brandon Lee wasn’t charged with anything—there were no criminal charges at all in that case even though there was negligence because there wasn’t intent. Only the studio was charged with civil charges that were settled out court.
Actor who accidentally shot and killed Brandon Lee in 1993 movie set mishap was deeply affected

 

[Luna20]

Why wouldn’t there be prop guns that look like real guns only the barrel is different in that it doesn’t fit any real bullet?

 

[Becky Starkey]

It's spin from AB. It was a bullet.[/QUOTE

I don't think it's "spin" that's just what it is called on the set by everyone, not just AB. MO