All Sauvie Island Searches

[cypress]

Then we have this from Oct. 2:

Recently-developed information led investigators to conclude there were areas of Sauvie Island that needed to be examined--and in some cases, reexamined--in greater detail.

Lindstrand did not say exactly what evidence the crews were looking for. But she said they were not following up on any one new tip. "We're being thorough, is what we're doing," she said.

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kyron-searchers-comb-Sauvie-Island-104215589.html

BBM

???

So it's recently developed but not a new tip. Hmm...

 

[carbuff]

Maybe it's partly a diversion while the real search is somewhere else?

 

[Kimster]

Maybe it's partly a diversion while the real search is somewhere else?

I seriously doubt they would waste funds like that. If that came out later on and public found out about it, they'd all lose their jobs.

 

[PDXMom]

Maybe it's partly a diversion while the real search is somewhere else?

Or at least simultaneous searches - one with volunteers, one with paid LE? I can't imagine they'd use all those dedicated SAR teams just as a red herring.

 

[Tink56]

I seriously doubt they would waste funds like that. If that came out later on and public found out about it, they'd all lose their jobs.

If you followed the Chelsea King and Amber DuBois cases, you know that LE did have a "staged" search during the time that John Gardener was taking LE to the place he buried Amber.

I've never heard a cost breakdown of searching the pond in the park in Escondido, and I've never heard anyone ask about the cost of the search. The entire community was relieved "it" was over.

The thought of a diversionary search for KyH crossed my mind today. And, the searchers today were all volunteers, correct? Wouldn't it be wonderful to have some closure....Only good thoughts to KyH's parents, family, and greater community...

 

[Kimster]

If you followed the Chelsea King and Amber DuBois cases, you know that LE did have a "staged" search during the time that John Gardener was taking LE to the place he buried Amber.

I've never heard a cost breakdown of searching the pond in the park in Escondido, and I've never heard anyone ask about the cost of the search. The entire community was relieved "it" was over.

The thought of a diversionary search for KyH crossed my mind today. And, the searchers today were all volunteers, correct? Wouldn't it be wonderful to have some closure....Only good thoughts to KyH's parents, family, and greater community...

No way! I had no idea and I was even a mod in Amber's forum for awhile.

 

[cluciano63]

These 4 days of searches in the past week or so are real searches; too many people were working out there, with dangers of injury, etc. Not to mention the horses and dogs.

They could have done one day of "fake" searching if they were trying to send a message or set a trap, but I do not believe they would devote two weekends and tie up so many volunteers and staff.

 

[carbuff]

I didn't mean just a red herring. I'm sure they really were double checking areas, making sure they hadn't overlooked anything, and so forth. But it seemed to be a lot of hoopla for fairly routine searches.

 

[cluciano63]

Please don't take away the tiny bit of hope I have, Carbuff, that they are on to something

 

[Kimster]

Please don't take away the tiny bit of hope I have, Carbuff, that they are on to something

:hug:

 

[carbuff]

Please don't take away the tiny bit of hope I have, Carbuff, that they are on to something

My hope was that they found something even more important in a different direction while we were all looking at SI.

 

[carbuff]

These 4 days of searches in the past week or so are real searches; too many people were working out there, with dangers of injury, etc. Not to mention the horses and dogs.

They could have done one day of "fake" searching if they were trying to send a message or set a trap, but I do not believe they would devote two weekends and tie up so many volunteers and staff.

Not to send a message or set a trap, but to investigate a scene without cameras and crowds hanging over their shoulders. And maybe remove whatever it was that had to be removed without the public noticing just yet. And not really fake, either -- I'm sure it was searching that needed to be done.

 

[MsFacetious]

BBM

???

So it's recently developed but not a new tip. Hmm...

One possibility......

Kaine got home not too long after Terri uploaded the Science Fair pictures to facebook.... upload 1:20pm and Kaine got home 2pm - 2:30pm. So only 40 minutes to an hour or so in between.

I think it is possible that investigators were only working with the time frame before that upload. We haven't heard any requests for if anyone saw Terri after 1:00pm (that I have seen.) They may have assumed that she really was home.

They may have followed cell phone pings to the island...then thought that was a red herring left by Terri when they didn't find anything.

However, I think investigators may have recently realized she may not have been home at 1:20pm when the pictures were uploaded. They may have verified that by tracing back the IP to the island.

Since the pictures were uploaded, they know someone was there, unlike the cell phone pings. That would lend more credibility to where the IP address traced to and it would be less likely to be a red herring.

Yet, they still wouldn't know where she put any evidence, just that she was on the island. The same could apply to cell phone pings, if they were able to place the phone in her possession somehow.

If they had both the pings and a traced IP, that would be especially compelling.

This would justify a more extensive search.

This would be also newly developed information from an old tip that has been known since the very beginning.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Maybe it's partly a diversion while the real search is somewhere else?

That would be so disrespectful of the volunteers (who make up the vast majority of most search personnel) that a PD that did that would quickly find it difficult to get a decent showing on call-outs without a bunch of groveling, pleading and probably the proffering of lots of peace gifts (access to training areas, providing personnel to help with training, maybe providing a headquarters area for the local search organisations, etc).

It doesn't happen very often but I have heard of a couple of cases where LE's use of SAR personnel was so offensive that it took major amounts of effort on the offending agency's part to get a decent showing at call-outs again. Massive amounts of effort.

Volunteers are volunteers and cannot be compelled to donate their time, energy and financial resources. LE who treats them like hired hands to be abused shortly discovers that they can quit without giving notice and without leaving LE any legal means of appeal.

It's just not worth it to abuse SAR that way. It really isn't. No matter what case and what rationale LE has.

 

[BeanE]

On Saturday the searchers, directed by the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, combed the east side of the island – working through the pouring rain to look for clues.

snip

"It isn't based on any new information, it's just again to be thorough in our investigation," said Lt. Mary Lindstrand with the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. "The message is, again, if someone out there has information about Kyron and his disappearance, we would like you to come forward so we can resolve this investigation and bring Kyron home."

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104675229.html

 

[citigirl]

"Many of the ponds were adjacent to gravel roads, not main roads on the island."

I thought what was most interesting in this article was the above quote. Many who know the island have been saying it is impossible to dump anything without being seen. Would the view to these ponds be more obscured?

 

[lynmaree]

Picture #5 is truly disturbing and sad. I pray they find you soon Kyron, so you may RIP. You truly deserve it, little one.

Freefallzzzz..
the picture with the boxers? Were they found somewhere that K could have been? Is LE aware of those? Could they BE evidence?

 

[Oriah]

Just going to chime in with my 2 cents, fwiw.

LE does at times utilize multiple SAR, both LE based and volunteer-based- and sometimes in different locations but at the very same time. Sometimes the thinking behind that is that there is the possibility of evidence in several different locations and they are trying to utilize the resources they have to cover that possibility.
Other times, they are hoping to direct attention away from searches that might produce evidence which will need to be handled by LE specifically.

I agree, GrainneDhu- not fair to volunteer SAR. But I do think sometimes, necessary.

 

[carbuff]

Just going to chime in with my 2 cents, fwiw.

LE does at times utilize multiple SAR, both LE based and volunteer-based- and sometimes in different locations but at the very same time. Sometimes the thinking behind that is that there is the possibility of evidence in several different locations and they are trying to utilize the resources they have to cover that possibility.
Other times, they are hoping to direct attention away from searches that might produce evidence which will need to be handled by LE specifically.

I agree, GrainneDhu- not fair to volunteer SAR. But I do think sometimes, necessary.

I know I've read about diversionary searches being done. There was one in this area recently for a far more minor matter-- they were searching for a cache of illegal weapons. Big focus on some property he owned on Cape Cod while the real search was on the lot behind his main house. He came home to an arrest warrant.

And as I've said repeatedly, I don't think the Sauvie Island searches were fake searches. Clearly they weren't. I just got to wondering if the major action was somewhere else, and part of the point of making a big deal out of a relatively routine search was to focus attention away from another area.

I assume if that's the case, we'll find out fairly soon.

A tangential question: I noticed that most of the groups in Freefallzz's pictures were sheriff's posses. Would they be considered volunteer or LE based? I know a guy on a posse here and he's just a concerned citizen with some training, totally volunteer -- is that generally true?

 

[Oriah]

I'm not sure about Freefallzzs picture, have not looked. Is that link right upstream of here?

Sheriff's depts can have both volunteer and 'professional' (aka paid) SAR. Depends a lot on the department, where they are located, what their resources are, and how that is decided. For example: many areas frequently only have (unpaid) volunteer SAR, but those SAR are also paid deputies. Some depts have only paid SAR on call who are not deputies or LE but are professional SAR. The federal government has both, but most are professional SAR who are volunteering their time. Other areas have nothing, lol. Does that help at all?