All Things Dick Cheney

[Nore]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljwf22
I have a hunting query, probably off topic, but..if there are so many pellets in a shot, would that make the bird inedible?

I am also glad to see this thread get back to this incident and away from the politcal mocking. There is a political thread for that.

quote: Cal

After I posted last night, I went to bed and didn't get any further in the thread. I do know from my dad who occasionally went duck hunting, that the object of a great hunter is to shoot slightly ahead of the bird and let them fly into the shot. That way there is less lead to clean out if you do it right. I did go hunting with him on one occasion as a 12 year old girl. I was allowed to take my .22 rifle. I did shoot a rabbit. Guess what, my dad told me that we only shot what we were going to eat, not for the sport of it only. I had to skin and gut that rabbit, then we took him home, and it was prepared and eaten. I learned my lesson. I have been given game, deer and elk, and still have some in my freezer. I have not, however, hunted since that rabbit. Oops, except trying to get a skunk near the chickens and the occasional coyote. I didn't get either one, though, because it was dark and I wasn't sure where the horses were in the pasture.

---------------

O/T BarnGoddess you are so right about the pheasant!!

 

[Marthatex]

I wonder why the third hunter was not the witness. Could it be because it was a single woman?

Yes, it is odd; Pam Willeford was evidently right beside him - she has been mentioned very little. She should have seen what happened better than Mrs. Armstrong. She's not single, she's married to Dr. George Willeford, but was without her husband at the time.

I did read some innuendo about that on some blogs, but I would imagine it is gossip.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Oh,my, I must have had a senior moment. I forgot that Cheney travels with his own ambulance and medical team.

Just curious, does the American taxpayer pay for his hunting trips to Texas, too?

Hey, Marthatex...I have senior moments and I'm not even a senior yet :laugh:

NORMALLY (but this is politics, ya know)...we taxpayers wouldn't pay for the hunting trip directly; but, no matter which dignitary is traveling, the taxpayers pay for his/her security details and associated costs. Rightly so. It doesn't matter where they're going or what they're doing. (Now you want to get into who has a wall-eyed fit about any President traveling on "vacations" etc, my BF. He believes a President should never go anywhere during their 4-yr term, just Camp David. Interesting talks in my house, especially in Crawford for the month of August - can you imagine?!?!?!)

And to be fair - that's the way it is, no matter what administration. When Al and Tipper, etc did trips with their kids, same thing. And we pay for security after they're no longer in office (depending on the public office previously held.) I agree with most of it, but some seems a little extreme, but I should :silenced:

It just is what it is, and I guess that's a good thing.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

That means the taxpayers are paying for it.......JMO

To be fair, that's policy and procedure. It's not just this Administration, or this person. Just wanted to make that clear.

It would be nice if we all had the luxury of having a medical team with us at all times, huh? :boohoo: :waitasec:

 

[Buzz Mills]

There's still a lot of misinformation being spewed by the media.

Cheney was using a $23,000 Italian-made Perazzi shotgun, with a 30" barrel; Arnold also has one.

Misinformation was that his shotgun shell contained "200 iron pellets." They also said that Harry Whittington was hit by 150 pellets.

 

[Maral]

Cheney, "A Beer or Two" and a Gun

Cheney's admission that he was drinking, along with Armstrong's clumsy attempts to downplay the alcohil issue raises more questions than it answers about an incident involving a Vice President who, like George W. Bush, was a heavy drinker in his youth, but who, unlike Bush, never swore off the bottle.

As with her over-the-top efforts to blame Whittington, the victim, for getting in the way of Cheney's birdshot blast, Armstrong's line on liquor smells a little more like an attempt to cover for the Vice President than full disclosure.

This is where the hunting accident "incident" becomes a serious matter. The role played by the
Secret Service in preventing questioning of Cheney on the evening of the shooting takes on new significance when drinking is at issue. If Cheney was in any way impaired at the time of the shooting, it was certainly to the Vice President's advantage to put off the official investigation until the next morning.

Cheney claims that he downed beer hours before he shot Whittington. But he now has a lot more explaining to do than what was seen during the "softball" interview on Fox News, the Administration's house network, which the White House crisis management team arranged for him to do Wednesday.

When legitimate questions arise regarding the role that the Secret Service might have played in undermining the investigation of a shooting in order to protect the vice president from embarrassment, and possible legal charges, those issues have to be addressed fully and completely. And they must be addressed in a setting where reporters are able to press the notoriously cagey Cheney to actually answer all of the questions that are asked.

 

[Buzz Mills]

To be fair, that's policy and procedure. It's not just this Administration, or this person. Just wanted to make that clear.

It would be nice if we all had the luxury of having a medical team with us at all times, huh? :boohoo: :waitasec:

Just a few of the "fringe benefits" would be nice.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Cheney, "A Beer or Two" and a Gun

Cheney's admission that he was drinking, along with Armstrong's clumsy attempts to downplay the alcohil issue raises more questions than it answers about an incident involving a Vice President who, like George W. Bush, was a heavy drinker in his youth, but who, unlike Bush, never swore off the bottle.

As with her over-the-top efforts to blame Whittington, the victim, for getting in the way of Cheney's birdshot blast, Armstrong's line on liquor smells a little more like an attempt to cover for the Vice President than full disclosure.

This is where the hunting accident "incident" becomes a serious matter. The role played by the
Secret Service in preventing questioning of Cheney on the evening of the shooting takes on new significance when drinking is at issue. If Cheney was in any way impaired at the time of the shooting, it was certainly to the Vice President's advantage to put off the official investigation until the next morning.

Cheney claims that he downed beer hours before he shot Whittington. But he now has a lot more explaining to do than what was seen during the "softball" interview on Fox News, the Administration's house network, which the White House crisis management team arranged for him to do Wednesday.

When legitimate questions arise regarding the role that the Secret Service might have played in undermining the investigation of a shooting in order to protect the vice president from embarrassment, and possible legal charges, those issues have to be addressed fully and completely. And they must be addressed in a setting where reporters are able to press the notoriously cagey Cheney to actually answer all of the questions that are asked.

The Sheriff's deputies being rebuffed, by the SS, in their attempts to question Cheney on Saturday evening, has already been swept under the rug.

 

[calus_3]

There's still a lot of misinformation being spewed by the media.

Cheney was using a $23,000 Italian-made shotgun, with a 30" barrel; Arnold also has one.

Misinformation was that his shotgun shell contained "200 iron pellets." They also said that Harry Whittington was hit by 150 pellets.

Well, Buzz I am not sure if you are saying the information about the shotgun is incorrect but that is probably the correct information on the shotgun.

I shot skeet with a guy and I admired his shotgun.....it turned out when I looked it up after getting home that it was somewhere around a $40,000 shotgun. NICE.

Cal

 

[Buzz Mills]

Timeline following Cheney's hunting mishap

A timeline of events following Vice President Dick Cheney's hunting accident, all times ET:
SATURDAY, FEB. 11

4 p.m.: Cheney begins an afternoon quail hunt with four other hunters on the private Armstrong Ranch in south Texas. They had been hunting earlier in the day, but took a break for lunch.

6:30 p.m.: Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter Harry Whittington while aiming for a bird. Secret Service agents and medical personnel with Cheney tend to wounds on Whittington's face, neck and chest.

7:20 p.m.: An ambulance takes Whittington to a Christus Spohn Hospital Kleburg.

7:30 p.m.: White House chief of staff Andy Card tells President Bush there was an accident, but Card is unaware Cheney was involved.

7:50 p.m.: The head of the Secret Service office in McAllen, Texas, calls the Kenedy County Sheriff (Rey Salinas ) to report the accident. The sheriff asks to speak to Cheney, and they schedule an interview for 9 a.m. Sunday. At the White House, presidential aide Karl Rove tells Bush that Cheney was the shooter, after talking to ranch owner Katharine Armstrong.

Saturday evening: Cheney and the rest of the hunting party sit down for dinner at the ranch. At some point, sheriff's deputies who heard reports of the ambulance responding to an accident at the ranch stop at the front gate to see if anyone needs help, but are told no one needs assistance. The Secret Service earlier had said the deputies were seeking to interview Cheney, but on Tuesday they said that was not the case. Armstrong says no one at the dinner discussed announcing the accident to the public because they were all focused on Whittington's well being.

9:15 p.m.: Whittington is flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial and is treated in the intensive care unit.

SUNDAY, FEB. 12

6 a.m.: White House press secretary Scott McClellan is awakened by a phone call from the White House situation room, informing him Cheney was the shooter. McClellan contacts the vice president's office and urges that the information be made public quickly.

9 a.m.: Kenedy County sheriff's deputies interview Cheney. Armstrong begins calling a reporter at the Corpus Christi Caller-Times and leaving messages. Armstrong says she told Cheney she wanted to tell the local paper what happened, and he agreed.

12 noon: The reporter returns Armstrong's call.

2:48 p.m.: The Corpus Christi Caller-Times posts a short report about the accident on its website after confirming the account with the vice president's office.

3:34 p.m.: The Associated Press, following up on the local story, moves a news alert about the shooting


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-02-16-cheney-timeline_x.htm

 

[calus_3]

Hey Dems....

No one gives a crap about the timelines and the inuendo.....it was a hunting acccident, so says the police and everyone involved.

The liberal media and the Democrats running around acting like Cheney was drunk or that he intentionally shot Harry to warn Scooter Libby not to testify is just solidifying votes for the Republicans in mid-terms and 2008. This is a red herring against someone who isn't even going to be involved in 2008.

You are chasing your tails and as much as you try and the pissed off media tries to make this into something it wasn't, you can't. The American public is watching and don't care about this hunting accident beyond hoping that Harry pulls through.

Cal

 

[close_enough]

Cheney, "A Beer or Two" and a Gun

Cheney's admission that he was drinking, along with Armstrong's clumsy attempts to downplay the alcohil issue raises more questions than it answers about an incident involving a Vice President who, like George W. Bush, was a heavy drinker in his youth, but who, unlike Bush, never swore off the bottle.

As with her over-the-top efforts to blame Whittington, the victim, for getting in the way of Cheney's birdshot blast, Armstrong's line on liquor smells a little more like an attempt to cover for the Vice President than full disclosure.

This is where the hunting accident "incident" becomes a serious matter. The role played by the
Secret Service in preventing questioning of Cheney on the evening of the shooting takes on new significance when drinking is at issue. If Cheney was in any way impaired at the time of the shooting, it was certainly to the Vice President's advantage to put off the official investigation until the next morning.

Cheney claims that he downed beer hours before he shot Whittington. But he now has a lot more explaining to do than what was seen during the "softball" interview on Fox News, the Administration's house network, which the White House crisis management team arranged for him to do Wednesday.

When legitimate questions arise regarding the role that the Secret Service might have played in undermining the investigation of a shooting in order to protect the vice president from embarrassment, and possible legal charges, those issues have to be addressed fully and completely. And they must be addressed in a setting where reporters are able to press the notoriously cagey Cheney to actually answer all of the questions that are asked.

thanks for the link....

Up to now, the whole "hunting-accident" controversy has been little more than a diversion from more serious matters involving Cheney--not least among these, the investigation into whether the Vice President authorized the release of classified information as part of a scheme to discredit critics of the Administration's rush to war. But if Cheney used his Secret Service unit to prevent a necessary and proper official inquiry at a time when it might have uncovered relevant information regarding his condition when he shot a man, then the Vice President has abused his office in a most serious manner.

how many times, you reckon, has LE heard those words before..."only had a couple of beers"

that's exactly why Cheney didn't speak with local LE that evening, imo....

 

[Buzz Mills]

President Satisfied With Cheney's Account

WASHINGTON - President Bush was satisfied with Vice President Dick Cheney's account of his Texas hunting accident, but Bush's spokesman declined to say Thursday whether the president felt it should have been revealed earlier. "I think that the vice president clearly explained the rationale behind that," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said, avoiding a direct response to questions about whether Bush felt the shooting accident was publicly disclosed in a timely manner.

The accident happened on Saturday but was not publicly revealed until the next day.

Cheney said he had had a beer at lunch that day but nobody was drinking when they went back out to hunt a couple hours later. Law enforcement officials have ruled out alcohol as a factor.

http://tinyurl.com/brc85

 

[Buzz Mills]

More conflicting information:

Eric Zahren, a Secret Service spokesman, said the shooting occurred at 5:50 p.m. CST, slightly later than the White House had said at first. After helping Whittington into an ambulance, the agents in Cheney's security detail returned to their command post on the Armstrong ranch by 6:30 p.m. The Secret Service supervisor in McAllen, Texas, had called the sheriff in Kenedy County to tell him about the shooting by 7 p.m., Zahren said.

The Secret Service supervisor arranged with the sheriff for Cheney to be interviewed at the ranch at 10 a.m. Sunday, Zahren said. But the vice president's office changed the time to 8 a.m.

While there were reports, some from the sheriff himself, that a deputy had been dispatched to the Armstrong ranch Saturday night and been turned away, Zahren said that some local police officers had heard about the incident on a scanner when an ambulance was sent to pick up Whittington. They showed up at the ranch unsolicited. Private guards, not Secret Service agents, Zahren said, turned the police away because they didn't know anything had occurred.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060215/news_1n15cheney.html

 

[tybee204]

Hey Dems....

No one gives a crap about the timelines and the inuendo.....it was a hunting acccident, so says the police and everyone involved.

The liberal media and the Democrats running around acting like Cheney was drunk or that he intentionally shot Harry to warn Scooter Libby not to testify is just solidifying votes for the Republicans in mid-terms and 2008. This is a red herring against someone who isn't even going to be involved in 2008.

You are chasing your tails and as much as you try and the pissed off media tries to make this into something it wasn't, you can't. The American public is watching and don't care about this hunting accident beyond hoping that Harry pulls through.

Cal

Cal
This thread is not required reading for those who do not "give a crap".

 

[Lesleegp]

I just got this from a friend of mine............If I pizz anyone off, "oh well"


Well Crap, it won't post It's a bumper sticker that says

"I'D RATHER GO HUNTING WITH DICK CHENEY
THAN RIDE WITH TED KENNEDY"

I got the same thing via email. I love it!

 

[Becba]

Yes, it is odd; Pam Willeford was evidently right beside him - she has been mentioned very little. She should have seen what happened better than Mrs. Armstrong. She's not single, she's married to Dr. George Willeford, but was without her husband at the time.

I did read some innuendo about that on some blogs, but I would imagine it is gossip.

OOPS. Sorry, I must have read some gossip and got that wrong. I read more about her today. The gossip is that it was 2 men and 2 women staying the ranch. Pam and Ms. Armstrong with Cheney and his friend. I agree it is just gossip and not important.

 

[Becba]

Buzz, did some reading and one of complaints about info on the size of the shot is that the medical team said the pellet lodged near the heart was 5.5mm. If you look that up on the scale for birdshot it is much much larger than that for Quail.

Scroll this link to find that the size for quail and the size of pellets. Shot size is larger as the number goes backwards. The size for quail is Number 7 1/2 to 8.
It is only 2.41 mm. You have to go bigger than the size of a BB to get 5.5mm.

http://www.check-six.com/Museum/Weaponry-m.htm

 

[Becba]

This site has easier charts lined up as it has the chart for quail.



http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Shotgun_shell

 

[Buzz Mills]

OOPS. Sorry, I must have read some gossip and got that wrong. I read more about her today. The gossip is that it was 2 men and 2 women staying the ranch. Pam and Ms. Armstrong with Cheney and his friend. I agree it is just gossip and not important.

But it is odd that we haven't read a thing about Pam Wiilleford, U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, saying anything in regard to the accident.