Alleged alcohol abuse Revisit w/new 2010.11.12 Dateline info

[cluciano63]

Now that we have heard that Desiree wanted Kyron back and was talking about it to Kaine, I think it is pretty clear that Kaine was doing his best to hide the situation that Kyron was embroiled in.

 

[debs]

debs, I took what you said to mean that a normal day leads to Terri drinking at night, rather than that a normal day began with Terri drinking during the day.

Can you clarify please what you meant?

:blowkiss:

That is precisely what I meant. There was no indication, either by mannerisms or his daughter in an agitated state which led Kaine to think something was amiss. A drunk is a drunk is a drunk, and we all know that in high times of stress, a drunk will drink. It's their way. Kaine doesn't state that Terri had already started drinking, a big indicator to me that she'd done something that day to a child in "unimaginable harm" levels. But Kaine says she was fine. Showed him pictures of Kyron's project at school. Nothing amiss.

I'd expect Terri the drunk to be in that state. But she isn't. Everything was just ........ normal.

 

[Donjeta]

The stress of knowing that you've just made a child disappear might be a good reason to start drinking but IMO it would also be a good reason not to start drinking if you don't want to get caught because the LE people who are inevitably going to be there are going to think it's a red flag if one of the parents is ten sheets to the wind, and you might trip up and tell them something you didn't plan to say.

 

[debs]

The stress of knowing that you've just made a child disappear might be a good reason to start drinking but IMO it would also be a good reason not to start drinking if you don't want to get caught because the LE people who are inevitably going to be there are going to think it's a red flag if one of the parents is ten sheets to the wind, and you might trip up and tell them something you didn't plan to say.

But Kaine insists that was the way Terri coped all the time. I can't imagine in the worst possible circumstances, she would be able to maintain sobriety. I don't know even one alcoholic who can manage that restraint.

 

[miabellamoure]

The stress of knowing that you've just made a child disappear might be a good reason to start drinking but IMO it would also be a good reason not to start drinking if you don't want to get caught because the LE people who are inevitably going to be there are going to think it's a red flag if one of the parents is ten sheets to the wind, and you might trip up and tell them something you didn't plan to say.

Absolutely...you are going to be on your most "ultra" careful behaviour!

 

[Donjeta]

Does he really insist that? I thought he said he only recently became aware of how severe her drinking problems were. If that's true IMO it suggests that she must have been able to straighten herself up on occasion and can't have been half unconscious all the time.

I don't think it's completely out of the question that an alcoholic could restrain herself when the stakes are high and she needs to stay sober for her self preservation.

 

[SurfieTX]

Alrighty, after Kaine's presser, I guess some conclusions can be made. First off, Terri started "cycling" about 6 months before K was born in 2008? So, she was 3 mos pregnant. Hormones. Understandable. Then, there is the rest of the pregnancy. I think it is pretty safe to assume she wasn't drinking at that time. K was born in November. Terri probably breast fed some? Maybe?

So, drinking started in 2009ish? Then in February of 2010, J moves out. This whole time, Terri is drinking surreptitiously. Kaine **kind of** knows things are off, but doesn't really blame it at first until friends and family come to him (after Kyron went missing??), and he puts the pieces together.

So that's one yearish of drinking, lying and doing whatever else. Does an alcoholic really "hit bottom" that quickly? Heck, she was still going to the gym, presumably working out and volunteering here and there at school.

Of course, it is important to note that most of the texting that was done between MC and Terri was done at or around midnight. So, it stands to reason that she stayed up later than Kaine and could drink or do whatever w/o him knowing.

I think this where this electronic data is going to get really interesting. What were the time stamps left behind? And, that just makes that sighting by the neighbor at 2 a.m. a whole lot more interesting to me now.

 

[grandmaj]

Respectfully please don't mischaracterize what Kaine stated in his affadavit.


He said in his sworn affadavit,
Quote
It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc several nights per week. ..........

No where in his deposition does he claim Terri did this constantly, and during the day was never mentioned as a time when she drank.

http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

 

[debs]

Alrighty, after Kaine's presser, I guess some conclusions can be made. First off, Terri started "cycling" about 6 months before K was born? So, she was 3 mos pregnant. Hormones. Understandable. Then, there is the rest of the pregnancy. I think it is pretty safe to assume she wasn't drinking at that time. K was born in November. Terri probably breast fed some? Maybe?

Things were chaotic at home, per Kaine. Disagreements about discipline. Somewhere around here - Jan, February, March? - the drinking probably started (MOO). The MFH was 6 months or so prior to Kyron going missing. So, that places it around January?

February, J moves out. March, April, May and a few days in June, Terri is drinking surreptitiously. Kaine **kind of** knows things are off, but doesn't really blame it at first until friends and family come to him (after Kyron went missing??), and he puts the pieces together.

So that's 4 months of drinking, lying and doing whatever else. Does an alcoholic really "hit bottom" that quickly? Heck, she was still going to the gym, presumably working out and volunteering here and there at school.

Of course, it is important to note that most of the texting that was done between MC and Terri was done at or around midnight. So, it stands to reason that she stayed up later than Kaine and could drink or do whatever w/o him knowing.

I think this where this electronic data is going to get really interesting. What were the time stamps left behind? And, that just makes that sighting by the neighbor at 2 a.m. a whole lot more interesting to me now.

K just turned two. A whole year is missing from that cycle. In that missing year, Kyron told his dad he wanted to live with his mom. Desiree told Kaine she wanted Kyron to live with her. Kaine said no.

 

[mmmagique]

But Kaine insists that was the way Terri coped all the time. I can't imagine in the worst possible circumstances, she would be able to maintain sobriety. I don't know even one alcoholic who can manage that restraint.

I drink at night sometimes. Probably more than I should. At times of VERY HIGH stress I don't touch a drop. Mid-level stress may drive me to have a couple, but not extreme stress. I think there is too much going on in my body during extreme stress for me to add alcohol to it. I'm really not sure why, but just throwing my own perspective out there.

 

[SurfieTX]

K just turned two. A whole year is missing from that cycle. In that missing year, Kyron told his dad he wanted to live with his mom. Desiree told Kaine she wanted Kyron to live with her. Kaine said no.

You are right. I did a HUGE edit to that post. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[BeanE]

Respectfully please don't mischaracterize what Kaine stated in his affadavit.


He said in his sworn affadavit,
Quote
It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc several nights per week. ..........

No where in his deposition does he claim Terri did this constantly, and during the day was never mentioned as a time when she drank.

http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

I don't see any mischaracterization:

That is precisely what I meant. There was no indication, either by mannerisms or his daughter in an agitated state which led Kaine to think something was amiss. A drunk is a drunk is a drunk, and we all know that in high times of stress, a drunk will drink. It's their way. Kaine doesn't state that Terri had already started drinking, a big indicator to me that she'd done something that day to a child in "unimaginable harm" levels. But Kaine says she was fine. Showed him pictures of Kyron's project at school. Nothing amiss.

I'd expect Terri the drunk to be in that state. But she isn't. Everything was just ........ normal.

 

[grandmaj]

I don't see any mischaracterization:

This is the post I was referring to.

But Kaine insists that was the way Terri coped all the time. I can't imagine in the worst possible circumstances, she would be able to maintain sobriety. I don't know even one alcoholic who can manage that restraint.

BBM

 

[debs]

This is the post I was referring to.



BBM

In Kaine's motion, he states:

Pg. 2-Line item # 18-24..line item # 18,19,20..(papaphrase)..Historical problems with alcohol abuse, which have impaired her functionings since K's birth.

however, line Item # 21.22.."It was Common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol"

 

[Donjeta]

So there's not really enough information there to tell. Some state of things being common does not exclude the opposite state prevailing every once in a while.

 

[cluciano63]

So there's not really enough information there to tell. Some state of things being common does not exclude the opposite state prevailing every once in a while.

But usually if something is "common" is it more often than not. So Kaine says more often than not, Terri coped by drinking, or something to that effect (was visibly impaired.)

 

[BeanE]

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

 

[Donjeta]

But usually if something is "common" is it more often than not. So Kaine says more often than not, Terri coped by drinking, or something to that effect (was visibly impaired.)

IDK... I think it can be a relative matter. Even if you're not drunk for more than half of the time it can become "common" if you're drunk more than people in general are or if you drink more than you used to or if you drink more often than you should, causing problems.

IMO he can't both be saying that she was visibly impaired more often than she was not and that she hid her drinking so well that he wasn't even aware of it until last month.

 

[cluciano63]

IDK... I think it can be a relative matter. Even if you're not drunk for more than half of the time it can become "common" if you're drunk more than people in general are or if you drink more than you used to or if you drink more often than you should, causing problems.

IMO he can't both be saying that she was visibly impaired more often than she was not and that she hid her drinking so well that he wasn't even aware of it until last month.

Yet that is what he seems to be saying...

I think Kaine might have fared better if he had not spoken out today, at least in my eyes.

 

[SurfieTX]

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

She was sleeping on the couch, and presumably they weren't kissing at all... I just don't see how he otherwise wouldn't know. And then presumably altered in the evenings? Sigh. 2+2 is not equaling 4 for me concerning the big picture.