Alleged alcohol abuse Revisit w/new 2010.11.12 Dateline info

[Emma Peel]

Not trying to bash Kaine here. I get the impression that Kaine might be a "fixer".
I don't get the impression that Kaine is a "listener".

He comes across confidently, as if he's got the answer, he's always right, even comes across somewhat arrogant about things because he exudes that air of confidence and does not qualify what he says. Makes him seem "my way or the highway". Or, in a word, controlling. He's analytic - always a bunch of facts and reasoned rationale, running in the direction he believes it logically leads.

If one is not a listener, and one is a fixer, I think it might be hard for the fixer to instinctively know that, for emotional issues, the way to help is to listen and not fix.

I bring this up, only because the abuse of alcohol usually has emotional roots. If Kaine was trying to "fix" things for the family, perhaps he was just trying to "fix" the wrong thing. I can imagine the battles, and eventual resentment that could grow between a "fixer" and a person who doesn't want to be "fixed" but just wants to be .... <insert emotional need here>.

I also bring this up, because, I'm guilty of being a fixer too. As I get older, I've tried hard to become a better listener. I missed a lot when I was younger, because I really thought I could just tell folks what to do and then they could do that and then their problem would be fixed. Logic, you know?

Just throwin' it out there. Perhaps one can easily slip from being a "fixer" into an "enabler", and not even realize it for quite some time...

 

[pufnstuf]

Good post, Emma.

 

[cluciano63]

It just seems to me, in this age of step-familes and single parents, that the welfare of the child should be the key. If things are getting out of control in one home and a young child has another safe, loving home with parents who want him or her, the child should be moved. I know, I live in a dream world, but I think Kyron should have been allowed to go live with his mom and stepfather unofficially, until Kaine could get his household stabilized. It takes a village and all that, has to sometimes come before the reasoning that it is better not to move the kids around. Sometimes it is not only better, but it is lifesaving.

 

[Emma Peel]

I think the problem with Kaine's statements is that he's been in a kind of a double bind all along because he's had so many conflicting interests. Before Kyron went missing it was probably in his interests to try and color things pretty because he wanted to think things would be all right and because another divorce would be messy and because he wanted to keep the custody of Kyron and later the baby and because it is humiliating for many people to discuss the problems with your current spouse with the ex you left for the new one.

Then after Kyron disappeared at first he seemed to want to protect Terri, their family and their privacy which led to silence at first and then comments that minimized the problems in their homelife.

Then it became clear to him that Terri had something to do with it and it was not in his interests to protect her from suspicion anymore, they wanted the information out. But he still wasn't quite ready to spill his guts because he may still have wanted to keep some of the ugly truth from Desiree and the public because it might lead to a blame game about his role in enabling whatever Terri did.

Then Terri asked for visitation and suddenly he needed to get the ugly truth out there so she wouldn't get access to their child.

But at this point it's getting kinda tricky to say anything without contradicting what you said previously. Hopefully he's been quite straight with LE from the start so there won't be problems with his testimony in an eventual trial.

He reminds me of an onion.
And peeling the layer back makes me cry.
Good post Donjeta.

 

[Emma Peel]

Good post, Emma.

TY puf. Yours inspired it, actually.

 

[cluciano63]

This whole case makes me want to cry, but my tears are mostly for Kyron.

 

[ami]

Kaine: The alcohol part was hidden until other people brought information forward, and even then it was still hard to put the pieces together until there was a couple more pieces provided that put it in focus.

http://www.kgw.com/video?id=108218104&sec=547757


This looks to me that his firsthand declarative statements in his affidavit are misleading. I think it is reasonable to believe that such declarative statements mean that a person making them observed these things, and knew these things as fact, from their own personal experience.

Now reading the statement above, it tells me that that is not the case at all. Rather, the alleged alcohol abuse stories were guesses, contrived really, cobbled together from bits and pieces of things multiple people at different times.

Then on top of that, we have Desiree stating this morning that she saw "no signs", and "no evidence" of any alcohol abuse.

I'm not even going to get into the whys and wherefore, and speculate on how this situation came to be.

No character judgements from me.

Right now, I just would like Kaine and Desiree each to tell LE the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, if either of them have not already done so.

I can't help but also wish the two of them would sit down together, for a long time, several times probably, and without animosity, talk all this through. Try to reach a state in which they have less conflict. Life is easier that way, and their lives are very hard, and going to stay hard, for a long, long time.

I wish them both as much peace as they can manage to find.

It makes sense to me in a gritty, imperfect, real-life sort of way. My scenario: Kaine knew she had alcohol problems before (DUI) and he knew she abused over the counter pain killers, etc., during her body building days - but thought this was over. He also knew she was emotionally labile. He saw her fall asleep on the couch every night, give excessive discipline to the kids, fight with her older son, maybe slur and stagger "when she was tired", pick fights in the night when he moved baby K to her room. At the time there were red flags, but not ones he was confident labeling.

After Kyron disappeared, friends came to him with stories of Terri drinking. They share their own stories of alcoholics they have lived with. Kaine thinks back: eureka, maybe she was drinking, that would tie all of that behavior together. The falling asleep on the couch at 7pm, the discipline, the mood swings, the fights --- and yeah, now that he thinks of it, she HAS had issues with addiction in the past, the DUI, the over the counter pain pills. Maybe he never actually SAW bottles hiding in the laundry room, but then again he never looked, never thought to look. Maybe those times she said she was tired, not feeling well, her legs hurt from working out - she was drunk or hung over. That would explain so much.... etc.

I think that's probably pretty close to what he was saying/implying in the PC today. So many posters here have written that they were also fooled or mislead or just blind to the addiction of someone living in their home, until some point when they realized what was happening. It's not unrealistic. And Kaine does seem like he'd be pretty late in noticing things that others might have intuited earlier.

It just seems to me, in this age of step-familes and single parents, that the welfare of the child should be the key. If things are getting out of control in one home and a young child has another safe, loving home with parents who want him or her, the child should be moved. I know, I live in a dream world, but I think Kyron should have been allowed to go live with his mom and stepfather unofficially, until Kaine could get his household stabilized. It takes a village and all that, has to sometimes come before the reasoning that it is better not to move the kids around. Sometimes it is not only better, but it is lifesaving.

How do you know Desiree's home was more stable? Or that she and Tony really wanted Kyron to live there full time? We don't know these things. We know nothing about the Young household. Kaine said he didn't think his home was unstable. Desiree said Terri outright told her she thought Kyron should live with Desiree, and yet this was never legally approached. So all we know is that all parties involved had reached an uneasy balance with the status quo. This sounds like what a lot of blended families experience.

 

[Aedrys]

This whole situation is just sad. And the worst part is, the drunken Terri decided she had the power to change things the way she wanted. Forget what Kaine and Desiree want, Kyron had to go to benefit Terri. It's just sick and sad that she's an alcoholic on top on being a controlling, manipulative *bleep*. No one deserves to have a person like that wreck their lives, not even Kaine.

It must be horrifying to Kaine how wrong he was about Terri and how bad this whole situation is turning out to be. I bet he beats himself up everyday that he could have prevented or changed this even though there's no way he could have.

And it's just as horrifying to Desiree, who had her doubts but overall thought Terri was taking care of Kyron when Desiree couldn't, and now to find out what a psycho and alcoholic Terri really was must hurt her heart so bad. The If onlys must keep her up at night.

I am so saddened for Kyron's family and am keeping them in my prayers. Having an alcoholic in the family is bad enough. Having an a manipulative, self centered, psycho alcoholic in the family is a complete nightmare. How does Terri sleep at night? How does she rationalize the chaos and pain she's brought to people who didn't deserve it? I am so disgusted with her.

Justice is coming, Terri, and there's nothing you can do to stop it no matter how much you don't talk. I guess the bottle is your only friend now, huh?

 

[MD MOMMY]

I think it is very possible that Terri did the communicating between Kaine and Desiree. Clearly, she felt comfortable calling Desiree, even indicating that she wanted Kyron to move down to Medford. If she would say this to Desiree, I would not be surprised if she made her feelings known to Kaine as well. I wonder if it was an on-going issue between them. Maybe when Terri was drunk, she would say things about Kyron being extra work for her, whatever. I can't imagine she could harbor what Desiree is calling hatred toward Kyron, and Kaine had absolutely no clue.

My perception is similar. Desiree has stated that Terri would email her several times a day as well. It seems Terri was the go between so to speak. What I'm having a hard time getting around is the fact that Desiree had thoughts about having Kyron live with her. What I don't get is that Kaine pretty much shot it down and she let it go? What made her think Kaine knows what is best for their son. Sheesh if everyone in the world asked the other parent about custody arrangements we wouldn't even need a family court. GEESH.

 

[citigirl]

My perception is similar. Desiree has stated that Terri would email her several times a day as well. It seems Terri was the go between so to speak. What I'm having a hard time getting around is the fact that Desiree had thoughts about having Kyron live with her. What I don't get is that Kaine pretty much shot it down and she let it go? What made her think Kaine knows what is best for their son. Sheesh if everyone in the world asked the other parent about custody arrangements we wouldn't even need a family court. GEESH.

But I don't think Desiree would have won...she didn't know what she knows now. A judge is not going to remove a child from his current home on a "feeling." Desiree really had no choice but to go along with Kaine. She was probably hoping Terri would convince Kaine to allow Kyron to move to Medford...

 

[cluciano63]

But I don't think Desiree would have won...she didn't know what she knows now. A judge is not going to remove a child from his current home on a "feeling." Desiree really had no choice but to go along with Kaine. She was probably hoping Terri would convince Kaine to allow Kyron to move to Medford...

I agree. Kaine may have even reminded Desiree that he had most of the cards...and her wanting custody may have kept him from letting her know how things were at his house.

 

[txsvicki]

It's so hard for me to believe that Kaine had no idea that Terri was not drunk those nights especially after she'd had the problem back in 2005 and was drinking herself to sleep. But, he owes the public no explanations or confessions at all. Slurring, stumbling and passing out is very serious if you don't know what's wrong with the person every evening around the same time, or at least three times per week. Perhaps he found out recently that there was drinking all day long. My late sister in law (her kids were all well grown) would get up very early, drink coffee, clean house, work, whatever. Then, start boozing early afternoon and fit Terri's description to a Tee by 9pm. She'd even go stumble into bed and try to read before sleep. There was no mistaking that she was drunk though.

 

[Skully]

It's so hard for me to believe that Kaine had no idea that Terri was not drunk those nights especially after she'd had the problem back in 2005 and was drinking herself to sleep. But, he owes the public no explanations or confessions at all. Slurring, stumbling and passing out is very serious if you don't know what's wrong with the person every evening around the same time, or at least three times per week. Perhaps he found out recently that there was drinking all day long. My late sister in law (her kids were all well grown) would get up very early, drink coffee, clean house, work, whatever. Then, start boozing early afternoon and fit Terri's description to a Tee by 9pm. She'd even go stumble into bed and try to read before sleep. There was no mistaking that she was drunk though.

I am wondering if he was in denial too. I know women and men who live with substance abusers and won't admit it is a problem until something really bad happens. This way you don't have to change things, the hard things, like the marriage or confront the addict and have all that drama and conflict. As long as the boat is still afloat, they wait until it is about to sink before doing anything.

 

[Velouria]

I am wondering if he was in denial too. I know women and men who live with substance abusers and won't admit it is a problem until something really bad happens. This way you don't have to change things, the hard things, like the marriage or confront the addict and have all that drama and conflict. As long as the boat is still afloat, they wait until it is about to sink before doing anything.

Bern, I hear you and agree up to a point. However, I think Terri's DUI qualifies as "something really bad" happening, and would certainly give me pause about leaving her in charge of my child.

 

[kathryann]

I haven't commented in a while, but when alcohol abuse entered the picture I had to voice my opinion. No one can say if Terri is an alcoholic but Terri, however she does have characteristics of the disease. Alcoholism is the disease of denial. I have been in recovery 25+ years. An average every day mom does not drive in a car with her child while under the influence of alcohol. No one would have ever imagined that I had an alcohol problem, everything on the outside was perfect, everything on the inside was not. Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people. There is never enough of anything for us, not enough attention, love, sex, alcohol, money, etc. etc. etc. We always think that if one more thing were different, we would be happy. When that one thing happens we are STILL not happy, because the issue is with us. We love to blame others for our unhappiness. When choosing partners we tend to pick people who will lie for us and protect us and our disease. When they start to catch on, we leave and find someone else. We are addicted to alcohol, our partners are addicted to us. We are manipulators and tend to get what we want out of people by showing them someone that doesn't exist. Pathological liars. Our partners are very much in denial about our alcohol abuse because what is normal living to them while we are drinking is not so normal in the real world. If the allegations of alcohol abuse are true Terri's underlying issue may have been anger, not just anger, rage. Maybe she thought everything would be fine without Kyron, if he was gone she would have a perfect life, who on earth would think that getting rid of a little boy would make their life better? If that's what happened. Why would you get rid of a little boy who's Mom wanted him? I'm thinking maybe she was punishing several people for her unhappiness, if all this is true. These are ONLY my opinions. I am not making excuses for Terri in any way. I have always thought that she knows what happened to Kyron, I never imagined she could have harmed him. I'm beginning to change my thinking. Kaine is suffering, you can tell by how he looks. He not only is dealing with the loss of his child, he is dealing with reality smacking him in the face. Every day he's away from Terri, a little more reality sinks in. Not a pretty picture. He did not tell Desiree about the drinking, because he is just beginning to see life the way it really was, instead of how he wanted it to be. You cannot cure an alcoholic, but you can pick up your kids and leave, and he probably regrets that every day. I by the way am grateful that I no longer have to live that way.

 

[kathryann]

I've been in recovery for 20 years and a DUI 5 years ago doesn't show me a problem.Apparantly there were no more problems or DUI's after that.I agree,Yes you can relapse.I strongly feel her problems were with Kaine.Not little Kyron.She may have been tired from the stress of thier marriage which I feel was mutual problems between them.I personally feel Kaine has said things that are not true or possibly blown out of porportion.Was he drinking right along with her.Again I do not hear anyone else saying this that he is saying.Just Kaine.Again I say he will have to have the burden of proof and if he is not telling the truth that is perjury.He can get in alot of trouble.Who saw her drink in the middle of the night?No one else was there.He needs to choose his words and allegations very carefully from now on.

I have to take exception to this. Just because someone hasn't been caught driving a car while impaired does not mean they are not drinking and it's not a problem. As a recovering person too, alcoholics drive many many times and do NOT get caught.

 

[kathryann]

The DUI was 5 years ago.Not now.I will say so far this is only coming from Kaine that she was drunk on the couch.Why did he ALLOW it to happen.No one else has said this.He will have to have the burden of proof in court and I'm convinced and I feel very strongly he does not have it.I personally feel it's a bunch of BS.

Wow, sorry I'm commenting so much, but the only thing he COULD do was take the kids and leave, there was NOTHING he could do about her drinking. You know that as a recovering person no one can make you stop until you make that decision.

 

[ami]

Wow, sorry I'm commenting so much, but the only thing he COULD do was take the kids and leave, there was NOTHING he could do about her drinking. You know that as a recovering person no one can make you stop until you make that decision.

I agree! If only you could "make" someone stop drinking! You simply can't. And Kaine has said that he didn't realize at the time that this is what her issue was. He didn't know at the time she had a drinking problem. In retrospect, with others to fill him in on her activities and patterns, with more information than he had at the time, he now realizes the problem.

Again, a lot of posters here have shared personal info about how they were living with an addict and didn't realize it at the time. And we're some smart folks here on WS. Why not allow that Kaine may have been similarly hoodwinked?

 

[akashana]

If all of these things are as Kaine described them, I sure hope he was investigating treatment or divorce or some means of protecting Baby K prior to Kyron's disappearance. Things as he describes them sound pretty out of hand and getting worse. MOO

Coming to terms with alcoholism or addiction in a partner or spouse is definitely a process. Denial is involved, rationalization - the other party wants to believe that the problem is not that bad and may even minimize it to himself or others. Especially as this was a 2nd marriage for Kaine, I can see why he might have allowed it to drag on further than some might, as there were now 3 children who would be negatively affected by another divorce. He may have approached Terri and she promised to cut back, and may have even tried.

Whenever addiction in any form enters a relationship, it becomes a totally separate entity that is a full-fledged participant in the marriage, and must be dealt with accordingly. I really can't fault him too much for taking a cautious approach to confrontation on this issue.

 

[Aedrys]

I haven't commented in a while, but when alcohol abuse entered the picture I had to voice my opinion. No one can say if Terri is an alcoholic but Terri, however she does have characteristics of the disease. Alcoholism is the disease of denial. I have been in recovery 25+ years. An average every day mom does not drive in a car with her child while under the influence of alcohol. No one would have ever imagined that I had an alcohol problem, everything on the outside was perfect, everything on the inside was not. Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people. There is never enough of anything for us, not enough attention, love, sex, alcohol, money, etc. etc. etc. We always think that if one more thing were different, we would be happy. When that one thing happens we are STILL not happy, because the issue is with us. We love to blame others for our unhappiness. When choosing partners we tend to pick people who will lie for us and protect us and our disease. When they start to catch on, we leave and find someone else. We are addicted to alcohol, our partners are addicted to us. We are manipulators and tend to get what we want out of people by showing them someone that doesn't exist. Pathological liars. Our partners are very much in denial about our alcohol abuse because what is normal living to them while we are drinking is not so normal in the real world. If the allegations of alcohol abuse are true Terri's underlying issue may have been anger, not just anger, rage. Maybe she thought everything would be fine without Kyron, if he was gone she would have a perfect life, who on earth would think that getting rid of a little boy would make their life better? If that's what happened. Why would you get rid of a little boy who's Mom wanted him? I'm thinking maybe she was punishing several people for her unhappiness, if all this is true. These are ONLY my opinions. I am not making excuses for Terri in any way. I have always thought that she knows what happened to Kyron, I never imagined she could have harmed him. I'm beginning to change my thinking. Kaine is suffering, you can tell by how he looks. He not only is dealing with the loss of his child, he is dealing with reality smacking him in the face. Every day he's away from Terri, a little more reality sinks in. Not a pretty picture. He did not tell Desiree about the drinking, because he is just beginning to see life the way it really was, instead of how he wanted it to be. You cannot cure an alcoholic, but you can pick up your kids and leave, and he probably regrets that every day. I by the way am grateful that I no longer have to live that way.

Thank you so much for telling us about yourself and how alcoholics really are. I think that there is this unrealistic view of the situation that Kaine should just done everything, including making Terri get help or making her stop drinking. I applaud your courage in telling this, and I hope more see that this wasn't as easy to deal with or even recognize as anyone would think. Thanks is not enough!