Alleged alcohol abuse Revisit w/new 2010.11.12 Dateline info

[TxLady2]

What is abundantly clear to me is, what he said in the presser is very different than what he said in his motion.
These stories of Terri passing out on the couch drunk several nights a week could not have been told to him by other people... unless he was in the habit of inviting a number of guests for sleepovers. He either witnessed these things himself, or he is not being truthful of WHEN he became aware of her alcoholism.
I can't fault Desiree for being upset with him about not keeping her informed. She is Kyron's mother, she had every right to know what was going on in that house.
I feel that what Kaine said yesterday was to place himself in a better light, sort of absolving himself from any blame, and that is just wrong. He might have been in total denial of Terri's problem with alcohol, but surely he knew that Kyron was unhappy and wanted to live with his mother. Desiree told us as much.
Sometimes people pay a high price for being stubborn and wanting their own way, and right now he is looking rather bankrupt, IMO. If he had allowed Kyron to go and live with his mother, Kyron might not be missing today. Just saying.

 

[kathryann]

What is abundantly clear to me is, what he said in the presser is very different than what he said in his motion.
These stories of Terri passing out on the couch drunk several nights a week could not have been told to him by other people... unless he was in the habit of inviting a number of guests for sleepovers. He either witnessed these things himself, or he is not being truthful of WHEN he became aware of her alcoholism.
I can't fault Desiree for being upset with him about not keeping her informed. She is Kyron's mother, she had every right to know what was going on in that house.
I feel that what Kaine said yesterday was to place himself in a better light, sort of absolving himself from any blame, and that is just wrong. He might have been in total denial of Terri's problem with alcohol, but surely he knew that Kyron was unhappy and wanted to live with his mother. Desiree told us as much.
Sometimes people pay a high price for being stubborn and wanting their own way, and right now he is looking rather bankrupt, IMO. If he had allowed Kyron to go and live with his mother, Kyron might not be missing today. Just saying.

I think that Kaine is probably suffering more than anyone knows because of his choice to stay with Terri. We all make mistakes. Yes, he should have told Desiree, but maybe just maybe he didn't realize how bad her problem was until he was actually out of the situation. Looking back. Sometimes while you are living "in" a problem you can't see it. I think it's really sad that he and Desiree are being criticized for these choices. Who would ever think in a million years that someone could harm a child? I know that sounds naive on my part, but everytime I hear that someone has done something to a child I'm shocked. They will both punish themselves for the rest of their lives because of their choices, I think the proper person should be punished, the one who did this, and I don't think we should be piling it on his parents.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Ok, am not completely sure if this is the appropriate thread but after having scrolled thru the thread titles it did seem the one that this post would most likely belong...So mods feel free to move to a different thread if there is a thread it would fit more appropriately...

My reason for choosing this specific thread is because IMO the time that Terri's "monsterous" side was unleashed was possibly when alcohol was involved{don't get me wrong I totally and COMPLETELY believe that this monsterous side of Terri was very much there and unleashed when she was stone cold sober as well}...but as many may know when alcohol is involved the "real deal" is harder to hide meaning you see the worst of the worst side of ppl when alcohol is involved, especially when are talking about a person with an out of control drinking tendency..

With that said I have been thinking the last couple of days about the timing of J*** being ousted from the home... He, being at a teen age is more likely to be up later at night...Kaine in bed at an early hour as he had work at an early morning hour and then don't forget there were also business trips where Kaine would be completely absent from the home for at the VERY LEAST OVERNIGHT and more likely a couple of days away.. But nonetheless NOT present to witness some of Terri's "monsterous" warpaths{with and withOUT alcohol involved}

J*** may very well have not only witnessed alot of Terri's late night drunken behaviors but some of those times when that "monsterous" viciousness was unleashed on little 7yr old Kyron.. It would be only natural for a "big brother" to try and protect his helpless little brother{J*** had been in Ky's life pretty much since day one so I'd say they were very much as close as if they were bio bros and not just step-bros}.. I have a feeling that J*** may have one too many times intervened on Terri's vicious lashing out on Kyron... If you remember Kaine says that it was while he was away on one of those biz trips that he got the shocking call that Terri had ousted J**** from their home after one too many times of butting heads, fights, arguments, etc btwn mom and son..

Now putting more and more pieces of this puzzle together I am really thinking its quite possible that something quite similar could be the case and the dynamics of what was truly going on behind closed doors there on NW Sheltered Nook...

Am curious to hear others opinions of this possibility{and as always am open to any AND ALL opinions, views, etc... even those that feel this is completely far fetched..)

I, personally find it quite plausible...

 

[akashana]

I think that Kaine is probably suffering more than anyone knows because of his choice to stay with Terri. We all make mistakes. Yes, he should have told Desiree, but maybe just maybe he didn't realize how bad her problem was until he was actually out of the situation. Looking back. Sometimes while you are living "in" a problem you can't see it. I think it's really sad that he and Desiree are being criticized for these choices. Who would ever think in a million years that someone could harm a child? I know that sounds naive on my part, but everytime I hear that someone has done something to a child I'm shocked. They will both punish themselves for the rest of their lives because of their choices, I think the proper person should be punished, the one who did this, and I don't think we should be piling it on his parents.

ITA with your post. Of course he should have shared with Desiree any problems Kyron was having, but I am sure that he viewed Terri's drinking as a problem of their marriage, rather than a problem involving Kyron. Even though we know that alcoholism is a family disease, there is usually a tendency to believe that it can be hidden from the children, even though that rarely - if ever - is possible. Even if he was aware that her drinking had a negative impact on Kyron, I can't imagine that he thought that she was capable of making him disappear. Many of us are still trying to wrap our heads around that now. Imagining a faceless stranger abducting our children may be scary, but it is nothing compared to the concept that the woman sleeping beside you, the one who rears your children, whom your children love, could ever be capable of doing them harm.

We can play Monday morning quarterback all we want with this case, discussing the things Kaine could have done, should have done, but I think excoriating him or Desiree for what we perceive as their shortcomings as parents, serves no useful purpose at this point.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I haven't commented in a while, but when alcohol abuse entered the picture I had to voice my opinion. No one can say if Terri is an alcoholic but Terri, however she does have characteristics of the disease. Alcoholism is the disease of denial. I have been in recovery 25+ years. An average every day mom does not drive in a car with her child while under the influence of alcohol. No one would have ever imagined that I had an alcohol problem, everything on the outside was perfect, everything on the inside was not. Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people. There is never enough of anything for us, not enough attention, love, sex, alcohol, money, etc. etc. etc. We always think that if one more thing were different, we would be happy. When that one thing happens we are STILL not happy, because the issue is with us. We love to blame others for our unhappiness. When choosing partners we tend to pick people who will lie for us and protect us and our disease. When they start to catch on, we leave and find someone else. We are addicted to alcohol, our partners are addicted to us. We are manipulators and tend to get what we want out of people by showing them someone that doesn't exist. Pathological liars. Our partners are very much in denial about our alcohol abuse because what is normal living to them while we are drinking is not so normal in the real world. If the allegations of alcohol abuse are true Terri's underlying issue may have been anger, not just anger, rage. Maybe she thought everything would be fine without Kyron, if he was gone she would have a perfect life, who on earth would think that getting rid of a little boy would make their life better? If that's what happened. Why would you get rid of a little boy who's Mom wanted him? I'm thinking maybe she was punishing several people for her unhappiness, if all this is true. These are ONLY my opinions. I am not making excuses for Terri in any way. I have always thought that she knows what happened to Kyron, I never imagined she could have harmed him. I'm beginning to change my thinking. Kaine is suffering, you can tell by how he looks. He not only is dealing with the loss of his child, he is dealing with reality smacking him in the face. Every day he's away from Terri, a little more reality sinks in. Not a pretty picture. He did not tell Desiree about the drinking, because he is just beginning to see life the way it really was, instead of how he wanted it to be. You cannot cure an alcoholic, but you can pick up your kids and leave, and he probably regrets that every day. I by the way am grateful that I no longer have to live that way.

Quote
Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people.

I can say I do not believe all alcoholics are like that.I was not.I was very passive and very codependent and very much a caretaker and I did not drink everyday.I am saying I do not see her driving with a DUI after that 5 years ago.So I feel maybe she was trying to do something about that by not driving again drunk.

 

[SurfieTX]

Quote
Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people.

I can say I do not believe all alcoholics are like that.I was not.I was very passive and very codependent and very much a caretaker and I did not drink everyday.I am saying I do not see her driving with a DUI after that 5 years ago.So I feel maybe she was trying to do something about that by not driving again drunk.

"Their relationship had many ups and downs, but Kaine said after the drunken-driving arrest that her attitude and their home life improved.

As a family, the couple played video games and occasionally took trips, visiting Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., and traveling to Israel. Every other weekend, Terri, Kaine or Greg McCullough, Desiree's first husband, shuttled J****, Kyron, and Desiree and Greg's son, Q****, to Shari's restaurant in Springfield for a handoff. J**** stayed with the Tarvers in Roseburg and Kyron and Q*** went with Desiree to Medford, where she lives with her husband, Tony Young.

At the end of 2006, Kaine sold the Aloha house, and in January 2007 the family moved to rural Northwest Portland. Terri found the secluded, wooded property on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road, and Kaine bought the house.

Three months later, the couple got married in their bathing suits in a small ceremony presided over by Kaine's dad on a beach in Kauai, Hawaii. On Mother's Day, Kaine gave his bride a brand-new candy apple red Ford Mustang GT."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

 

[akashana]

I think that Kaine is probably suffering more than anyone knows because of his choice to stay with Terri. We all make mistakes. Yes, he should have told Desiree, but maybe just maybe he didn't realize how bad her problem was until he was actually out of the situation. Looking back. Sometimes while you are living "in" a problem you can't see it. I think it's really sad that he and Desiree are being criticized for these choices. Who would ever think in a million years that someone could harm a child? I know that sounds naive on my part, but everytime I hear that someone has done something to a child I'm shocked. They will both punish themselves for the rest of their lives because of their choices, I think the proper person should be punished, the one who did this, and I don't think we should be piling it on his parents.

Bern, I hear you and agree up to a point. However, I think Terri's DUI qualifies as "something really bad" happening, and would certainly give me pause about leaving her in charge of my child.

Certainly DUIs are bad. Getting a DUI with your minor child in the car is even worse. However, that was five years ago, and a life can certainly turn around in five years. Terri would definitely have a vested interest in making it appear as if she changed. Kaine as well would want to believe her drinking is no longer problematic.

I would also like to point out that getting a DWI does not necessarily mean that person is an alcoholic, or even a person with a drinking problem. It should certainly be cause to reflect upon one's drinking habits, to examine the factors that led up to the incident, but many people have driven after drinking with no unforseen consequences whatsoever. I am not advocating doing so in any way, however. But all it takes to get a DWI is to leave a bar or party after having a drink or two on an empty stomach, a moment of distraction with the radio or a slight hesitation at a light to attract the attention of a cop, and then what would normally have resulted in just a warning or a ticket becomes a DWI when the cop smells a whiff of alcohol on the breath. Face it - people drink and drive all the time without incident. They drive to the bar, drink, and drive home. Not all of them are arrested. I have no idea of the circumstances of Terri's DWI, or what led to her driving with her minor child in the car, but as it was five years in the past, kaine may have believed that she had addressed the problem and put it behind her.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I think that Kaine is probably suffering more than anyone knows because of his choice to stay with Terri. We all make mistakes. Yes, he should have told Desiree, but maybe just maybe he didn't realize how bad her problem was until he was actually out of the situation. Looking back. Sometimes while you are living "in" a problem you can't see it. I think it's really sad that he and Desiree are being criticized for these choices. Who would ever think in a million years that someone could harm a child? I know that sounds naive on my part, but everytime I hear that someone has done something to a child I'm shocked. They will both punish themselves for the rest of their lives because of their choices, I think the proper person should be punished, the one who did this, and I don't think we should be piling it on his parents.

EXCELLENT POST, KATHRYANN!

And IMO could not be more "spot on" with where the "fault" lies...with the person that did this monsterous act....

AND CONGRATS ON 25+ YRS OF SOBER LIVING THAT IS AN OUTSTANDING ACCOMPLISHMENT IN AND/OF ITSELF!

 

[Billylee]

Ok, am not completely sure if this is the appropriate thread but after having scrolled thru the thread titles it did seem the one that this post would most likely belong...So mods feel free to move to a different thread if there is a thread it would fit more appropriately...

My reason for choosing this specific thread is because IMO the time that Terri's "monsterous" side was unleashed was possibly when alcohol was involved{don't get me wrong I totally and COMPLETELY believe that this monsterous side of Terri was very much there and unleashed when she was stone cold sober as well}...but as many may know when alcohol is involved the "real deal" is harder to hide meaning you see the worst of the worst side of ppl when alcohol is involved, especially when are talking about a person with an out of control drinking tendency..

With that said I have been thinking the last couple of days about the timing of J*** being ousted from the home... He, being at a teen age is more likely to be up later at night...Kaine in bed at an early hour as he had work at an early morning hour and then don't forget there were also business trips where Kaine would be completely absent from the home for at the VERY LEAST OVERNIGHT and more likely a couple of days away.. But nonetheless NOT present to witness some of Terri's "monsterous" warpaths{with and withOUT alcohol involved}

J*** may very well have not only witnessed alot of Terri's late night drunken behaviors but some of those times when that "monsterous" viciousness was unleashed on little 7yr old Kyron.. It would be only natural for a "big brother" to try and protect his helpless little brother{J*** had been in Ky's life pretty much since day one so I'd say they were very much as close as if they were bio bros and not just step-bros}.. I have a feeling that J*** may have one too many times intervened on Terri's vicious lashing out on Kyron... If you remember Kaine says that it was while he was away on one of those biz trips that he got the shocking call that Terri had ousted J**** from their home after one too many times of butting heads, fights, arguments, etc btwn mom and son..

Now putting more and more pieces of this puzzle together I am really thinking its quite possible that something quite similar could be the case and the dynamics of what was truly going on behind closed doors there on NW Sheltered Nook...

Am curious to hear others opinions of this possibility{and as always am open to any AND ALL opinions, views, etc... even those that feel this is completely far fetched..)

I, personally find it quite plausible...

I would find it plausible too, but then there's this. I don't think J***** is a liar.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

(snipped)

J*****, who is staying with his father, Ron Tarver, in Roseburg, said his mother treated Kyron like her own son.

"The only difference between her relationship with Kyron and me was the difference in ages," he said.

(snipped)

Although the couple fought, they did so in private. J*****said he only heard his mother and Kaine fight once in eight years. He described Kaine as calm but strict. "If you didn't follow the rules, you'd get in trouble," J***** said.


I wonder if they've had J***** take a LDT?

 

[cluciano63]

I'm thinking there were a whole lot of silent fights in the household between TH and KH, if not loud battles for J to overhear. And from what little we have heard about June 4th as far as when Kaine got home, he never even mentioned if he greeted Terri, spoke with her, asked her about her day, nothing. I think it was kind of an armed truce in that house. The tension may have been unbearable. Just speculation.

 

[SurfieTX]

I would find it plausible too, but then there's this. I don't think J***** is a liar.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

(snipped)

J*****, who is staying with his father, Ron Tarver, in Roseburg, said his mother treated Kyron like her own son.

"The only difference between her relationship with Kyron and me was the difference in ages," he said.

(snipped)

Although the couple fought, they did so in private. J*****said he only heard his mother and Kaine fight once in eight years. He described Kaine as calm but strict. "If you didn't follow the rules, you'd get in trouble," J***** said.


I wonder if they've had J***** take a LDT?

That's an interesting question because Kaine stated yesterday that "their/his lawyers" were keeping him from speaking with J****. J lived with Kaine and Terri for 8 years. That's a pretty significant time, IMO.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

"James said he misses his little sister — and would like to see Kaine as well.

"He was like a dad to me," James said. "I lived with him for eight years."

 

[Pensfan]

I haven't commented in a while, but when alcohol abuse entered the picture I had to voice my opinion. No one can say if Terri is an alcoholic but Terri, however she does have characteristics of the disease. Alcoholism is the disease of denial. I have been in recovery 25+ years. An average every day mom does not drive in a car with her child while under the influence of alcohol. No one would have ever imagined that I had an alcohol problem, everything on the outside was perfect, everything on the inside was not. Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people. There is never enough of anything for us, not enough attention, love, sex, alcohol, money, etc. etc. etc. We always think that if one more thing were different, we would be happy. When that one thing happens we are STILL not happy, because the issue is with us. We love to blame others for our unhappiness. When choosing partners we tend to pick people who will lie for us and protect us and our disease. When they start to catch on, we leave and find someone else. We are addicted to alcohol, our partners are addicted to us. We are manipulators and tend to get what we want out of people by showing them someone that doesn't exist. Pathological liars. Our partners are very much in denial about our alcohol abuse because what is normal living to them while we are drinking is not so normal in the real world. If the allegations of alcohol abuse are true Terri's underlying issue may have been anger, not just anger, rage. Maybe she thought everything would be fine without Kyron, if he was gone she would have a perfect life, who on earth would think that getting rid of a little boy would make their life better? If that's what happened. Why would you get rid of a little boy who's Mom wanted him? I'm thinking maybe she was punishing several people for her unhappiness, if all this is true. These are ONLY my opinions. I am not making excuses for Terri in any way. I have always thought that she knows what happened to Kyron, I never imagined she could have harmed him. I'm beginning to change my thinking. Kaine is suffering, you can tell by how he looks. He not only is dealing with the loss of his child, he is dealing with reality smacking him in the face. Every day he's away from Terri, a little more reality sinks in. Not a pretty picture. He did not tell Desiree about the drinking, because he is just beginning to see life the way it really was, instead of how he wanted it to be. You cannot cure an alcoholic, but you can pick up your kids and leave, and he probably regrets that every day. I by the way am grateful that I no longer have to live that way.

Thank you for your excellent testimony. May whatever higher power you believe in bless you for sharing this with us. It has provided us with a lot of useful insight.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I would find it plausible too, but then there's this. I don't think J***** is a liar.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

(snipped)

J*****, who is staying with his father, Ron Tarver, in Roseburg, said his mother treated Kyron like her own son.

"The only difference between her relationship with Kyron and me was the difference in ages," he said.

(snipped)

Although the couple fought, they did so in private. J*****said he only heard his mother and Kaine fight once in eight years. He described Kaine as calm but strict. "If you didn't follow the rules, you'd get in trouble," J***** said.


I wonder if they've had J***** take a LDT?

Yes, billylee I have pondered this as well.. and am still torn at the moment...

As I said my post ^above^ is just a possibility.. Another possibility that i FIND EQUALLY AS PLAUSIBLE/POSSIBLE is that it was at this stage in Terri's plotting/planning of Kyron's "disappearance" that Terri decided it best to not have James in the picture{i.e. no longer living in the house, nor even in the vicinity}..

This could be for a number of reasons {e.g. COULD NOT/WOULD NOT be implicated whatsoever in Ky's "disappearance", could not be even a possible "witness" to any actions/words immediately leading up to the "disappearance", etc..}

and then of course it could easily be as Kaine has described...with Terri's deterioration physically, emotionally, mentally, etc due to those "issues" Terri and J**** relationship would have also naturally suffered as well... Terri not being able to "deal" with butting heads with him at that time...thus sending him off...

But I am not in any way accusing J**** of being a liar...However if you are to talk with those who deal with counseling/treating teenaged children from a not so stable upbringing with a parent who at times has had alcohol/substance "issues" ... Especially when that parent is for the most part their sole primary care provider{for alot of James upbringing it was he and Terri}.. In talking to someone who has for years dealt with counseling these exact children in these circumstances{my sister is a psychologist that's entire career has been dedicated to adolescents in this exact category and last night we had a convo specifically about this situation}... It seems as tho these children do many times "rewrite" history in their minds{of course not for nefarious reasons of any kind rather a safety mechanism}..Therefor you do have a "skewed" version of events..

As I said and want to reiterate... I am in no way saying that J**** is "covering for", lying, or anything nefarious in nature at all... Rather just giving a realistic example of what adolescent children's minds can alter the true nature of events that have occurred. The minds way of protecting the child from some of the horrors of which they MAY truly have witnessed...

So, in closing I am not "tied to" any certain one of these possibilities...As I said they are all possible/plausible...

 

[SmoothOperator]

That's an interesting question because Kaine stated yesterday that "their/his lawyers" were keeping him from speaking with J****. J lived with Kaine and Terri for 8 years. That's a pretty significant time, IMO.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

"James said he misses his little sister — and would like to see Kaine as well.

"He was like a dad to me," James said. "I lived with him for eight years."

Thanks for this info...I wasn't aware of this and am wondering why a teenaged boy whom lived with Kaine and had a relationship for 8 yrs...that has expressed that he would like to see/speak/visit with Kaine...

why this wouldn't be allowed? and is it all attys involved that are not allowing this? or one side that is not allowing it?

Either way I do not understand why Kaine's atty nor Terri's lawyers would oppose this?

 

[feddup]

In your opinion it's very wrong. In my opinion it's mild and 1000% justified. And I believe she's a big drinker. I took one look at her in that very first video and saw the telltale signs. I thought she was drinking heavily and/or taking meds WAY before KH said one word about it. Her before and after photos, KH's words, and other things that have been said here and there about her appearance and her demeanor, just confirmed it.

I also think KH didn't want to talk about it before, for obvious reasons. Not the least of which is embarrassment and because he'd kept it from DY. I think at some point he just decided it was better to come clean, even if his credibility and public perception about how he handled the situation took a blow. I keep remember DY's words about how what you do *now* is what makes the difference (total paraphrase). I know she was talking to TH, but I'm wondering if KH didn't make a similar decision at his "crossroads" jmoo

Im sorry but after reading all of this why didnt he just let Kyron stay with his bio Mother and her husband? Even the bio Mom, didnt it upset her when a 7 yr old seemed VERY upset about having to leave her? I think Kyron had a very confusing life. I wish he couldve stayed with his bio Mom. She ALSO HAD A RIGHT to know step Mum was drinking so I dont think much of her X but......Im the type no 7 yr old of mine wouldve lived with someone else no way. In the pics, TH does seem to love Kyron and do alot with him but maybe she secretely resented him. Well, from what Desiree now says from reading emailsI guess she did
This has just turned into one big mud slinging fiasco with a little boy GONE probably dead somewhere. As far as the Dad not talking about it before, he did owe it to the bio Mom to talk about it, it involved her sons safety IMO. She seemed clueless although she had Kyron crying alot when he had to leave her.

 

[Billylee]

Yes, billylee I have pondered this as well.. and am still torn at the moment...

As I said my post ^above^ is just a possibility.. Another possibility that i FIND EQUALLY AS PLAUSIBLE/POSSIBLE is that it was at this stage in Terri's plotting/planning of Kyron's "disappearance" that Terri decided it best to not have James in the picture{i.e. no longer living in the house, nor even in the vicinity}..

This could be for a number of reasons {e.g. COULD NOT/WOULD NOT be implicated whatsoever in Ky's "disappearance", could not be even a possible "witness" to any actions/words immediately leading up to the "disappearance", etc..}

and then of course it could easily be as Kaine has described...with Terri's deterioration physically, emotionally, mentally, etc due to those "issues" Terri and J**** relationship would have also naturally suffered as well... Terri not being able to "deal" with butting heads with him at that time...thus sending him off...

But I am not in any way accusing J**** of being a liar...However if you are to talk with those who deal with counseling/treating teenaged children from a not so stable upbringing with a parent who at times has had alcohol/substance "issues" ... Especially when that parent is for the most part their sole primary care provider{for alot of James upbringing it was he and Terri}.. In talking to someone who has for years dealt with counseling these exact children in these circumstances{my sister is a psychologist that's entire career has been dedicated to adolescents in this exact category and last night we had a convo specifically about this situation}... It seems as tho these children do many times "rewrite" history in their minds{of course not for nefarious reasons of any kind rather a safety mechanism}..Therefor you do have a "skewed" version of events..

As I said and want to reiterate... I am in no way saying that J**** is "covering for", lying, or anything nefarious in nature at all... Rather just giving a realistic example of what adolescent children's minds can alter the true nature of events that have occurred. The minds way of protecting the child from some of the horrors of which they MAY truly have witnessed...

So, in closing I am not "tied to" any certain one of these possibilities...As I said they are all possible/plausible...

Well, I guess I'm just different. My parents were both alcoholics. It was a tumultuous home life. I remember every horrible fight they had, and I also remember the good times, though they were fewer and farther between. There weren't any glasses that were rosey enough for me to hide behind. I can remember sitting in my room with my headphones on and turning the volume waaaaay up to try and escape it all. I can say this, though, as a teenager I did not like to tell people about it. It was embarrassing to say the least, but I never lied either. I just didn't mention it.

So, like I said, since J**** is putting it out there that he and Kyron were treated the same, and that he only heard Terri & Kaine fight once in 8 years, I believe him and that leads me to think that Kaine may just be exaggerating, as people tend to do in custody cases. We'll see, I guess.

 

[akashana]

Im sorry but after reading all of this why didnt he just let Kyron stay with his bio Mother and her husband? Even the bio Mom, didnt it upset her when a 7 yr old seemed VERY upset about having to leave her? I think Kyron had a very confusing life. I wish he couldve stayed with his bio Mom. She ALSO HAD A RIGHT to know step Mum was drinking so I dont think much of her X but......Im the type no 7 yr old of mine wouldve lived with someone else no way. In the pics, TH does seem to love Kyron and do alot with him but maybe she secretely resented him. Well, from what Desiree now says from reading emailsI guess she did
This has just turned into one big mud slinging fiasco with a little boy GONE probably dead somewhere. As far as the Dad not talking about it before, he did owe it to the bio Mom to talk about it, it involved her sons safety IMO. She seemed clueless although she had Kyron crying alot when he had to leave her.

MY BOLD

I agree with you that I wouldn't let my child live elsewhere at 7. But I also know that there are circumstances that could arise in others' lives wherein that would appear to be the best solution at the time. Kaine was his father, after all, ostensibly as well-equipped to care for him as Desiree, and she apparently had serious medical issues with which she was dealing. Kyron crying when he had to leave her does not seem that unusual, IMO. It could simply be a normal reaction of separation anxiety by a sensitive little boy. Also, kids learn early on to turn on the waterworks to manipulate their parents, especially the absent ones. While I am not saying that was what occurred here, it would not be that unusual for a 7 y/o to become clingy and cry upon leaving one parent, perhaps thinking it might encourage his parents to reunite.

I also don't think it would be unusual to withhold details of trouble at home with the [resent wife from an ex-wife. Custody cases can be tricky, and information can become a powerful tool that can be turned against him later in court. Perhaps he thought it was simply a temporary relapse brought on by stresses of everyday life. if he ran to Desiree and confided that to her, who's to say she wouldn't have taken Kyron from him? While the world now knows that decision would definitely have been in the best interests of Kyron, none of us, including Kaine, were privy to that information at the time. He was just a regular guy trying to slog through life with his wife and kids.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Well, I guess I'm just different. My parents were both alcoholics. It was a tumultuous home life. I remember every horrible fight they had, and I also remember the good times, though they were fewer and farther between. There weren't any glasses that were rosey enough for me to hide behind. I can remember sitting in my room with my headphones on and turning the volume waaaaay up to try and escape it all. I can say this, though, as a teenager I did not like to tell people about it. It was embarrassing to say the least, but I never lied either. I just didn't mention it.

So, like I said, since J**** is putting it out there that he and Kyron were treated the same, and that he only heard Terri & Kaine fight once in 8 years, I believe him and that leads me to think that Kaine may just be exaggerating, as people tend to do in custody cases. We'll see, I guess.

Yes, sounds a bit like my recall of homelife...No rosey glasses for me, either.. Quite vivid memory of all good and bad, even remembering my thoughts at the time that certain situations were happening..

But yes we are all different because I have a sister who grew up in the exact same home with the exact same parents and were fairly close in age... she has a recollection of our homelife that when I am present and she is "telling a story of all of our childhoods"...well, I'll just say the rest of us siblings look at one another knowing full well IT IS NOT AN ACCURATE PICTURE OF WHAT TRULY HAPPENED... she in essence has rewritten history in her mind for whatever reason...I suppose it is easier for her to cope, deal with, etc...

So, yes we all are different.. even when growing up in the same home, same parents, etc...

 

[SurfieTX]

Thanks for this info...I wasn't aware of this and am wondering why a teenaged boy whom lived with Kaine and had a relationship for 8 yrs...that has expressed that he would like to see/speak/visit with Kaine...

why this wouldn't be allowed? and is it all attys involved that are not allowing this? or one side that is not allowing it?

Either way I do not understand why Kaine's atty nor Terri's lawyers would oppose this?

I found it really, REALLY strange. If I'm remembering correctly after transcribing the presser yesterday, Kaine said, "His lawyers are keeping me from talking to him."

I don't have the time right now to go back and listen to the presser, but I did link the raw video in the news section. It can also be kinda-sorta cross-referenced by the closed thread of the presser as to where it was mentioned. I think it was after the middle, toward the end, but not quite.

 

[kathryann]

Quote
Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people.

I can say I do not believe all alcoholics are like that.I was not.I was very passive and very codependent and very much a caretaker and I did not drink everyday.I am saying I do not see her driving with a DUI after that 5 years ago.So I feel maybe she was trying to do something about that by not driving again drunk.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but for the most part and after attending AA meetings for all these years, MOO is that alcoholics are selfish and self-centered while NOT in recovery or while using. A person is not in recovery if they are not getting help, even though they may be sober, that's the way I learned it anyway. I am also co-dependent and qualified for many of the 12 Step programs. I have been on both sides of the fence unfortunately. I am an alcoholic and married one. I really don't recall reading anywhere that Terri was attending AA meetings, and for me that is a very important factor in recovery. I honestly don't think she could have been living a very sober life if she was hiring MFH landscapers and sexting. The 12 Steps and these things just don't go together. MOO. Once an alcoholic crosses the line (DUI?) they are an alcoholic for life as far as I know. This is MOO.