Alternate cord source

[BlueCrab]

BC, I disagree that the absence of the items indicates that a 5th person was in the house that night. Have you forgotten that John, Patsy, and Burke were not searched when they left the house on the 26th? Patsy could have removed the items all by herself, in her purse. And don't forget Auntie Pam's famous sweep of the house. She could have removed evidence without even knowing it, just by picking up things the Ramseys asked for.

IMO

Ivy, I fully appreciate what you are saying, but the laws of probability have to be considered when there are multiple choices -- all of them possible. It's just not likely a Ramsey had the items on their person when talking with the cops that morning. The items are relatively bulky.

Also, besides the cord and duct tape there are other missing or apparently missing items of evidence. For instance, the murder weapon may be missing; the tip of the paint brush handle is missing; the dark blue cloth used to wipe down the body is missing (which was likely an article of the perp's clothing); the size six panties is missing; the red ink pen used to draw the "heart" is missing; nine pages torn from the notepad from which the ransom note was written are missing; the stun gun is missing; and therefore it can be said the intruder or houseguest likely invited into the house that night (the fifth person), and who took the items with him when he left in the wee hours of the morning, is missing.

JMO

 

[DocWatson]

I'm a BDIer because of the obvious coverup being orchestrated by the Ramseys to protect Burke, but there's something about the cord and tape that should be acknowledged -- the likelihood that these two items came from the house is low. The probability that the killer brought the cord and tape into the house is high because the BALANCE of these items were not found in the house.


I think there was a fifth person in the house that night. It's the only reasonable explanation for the missing cord and tape and several other crime scene items of evidence.

JMO

Good sleuthing, BlueCrab! This indeed is very solid intruder evidence. Now all you have to do is marry this with a logical theory of the crime. That the killer brought these items points to premeditation. But premeditation is NOT consistent with an accidental killing involving Burke/Doug and AEA games. Nor is it in any way consistent with parents covering up. Think about it: a cold-blooded killer manipulates 9-year old Burke into gaining access to the house, involves him in playing AEA games with his sister and the sister dies. So the motivation of the parents is to cover this up??????? The truth comes out in the GJ proceedings and LE also covers this up??????? Who taught you Logic 101? Something seriously does not compute.

 

[DocWatson]

Ivy, I fully appreciate what you are saying, but the laws of probability have to be considered when there are multiple choices -- all of them possible. It's just not likely a Ramsey had the items on their person when talking with the cops that morning. The items are relatively bulky.


JMO

Indeed, the laws of probability DO have to be considered, which is why any theory that involves hard evidence of premeditation combined with an accidental death should be rejected as absurdly implausible on its face. Your BDI theory appears to be impervious to your own account of the evidence (what innocent explanation would underlie an intruder's arriving with tape and cord in tow?) and your own views about logic and probability.

 

[Shylock]

Indeed, the laws of probability DO have to be considered,

Glad you said that DocWat, because the laws of probability do not allow for a stranger to break into a person's house, murder a child, and then write a note that has dozens of exemplars that match the child's mothers writing. That is not possible in any probability that exists. And we don't need dueling experts to tell us what the story is with the ransom note. Anybody with a brain and near 20/20 vision can see for themselves how many of the ransom note characters match Patsy's known writings. The proof is in the PDF file below, Patsy wrote the ransom note, she knows who killed JonBenet.

 

[Shylock]

I think there was a fifth person in the house that night. It's the only reasonable explanation for the missing cord and tape and several other crime scene items of evidence.

Do you own a house, BlueCrab? If you do, then you, like myself, probably know a dozen little places in that house where something can be hid and never found. Especially in a house with a basement, where items can be dropped into walls or air ducts and the entire house would have to be dismantled in order to find those items. With the amount of money the BPD spent on this investigation they should have done just that, bought the house and torn it down from the inside out.

I always found it pecular that when the Ramsey lawyers bought the house the first thing they did was had the wine celler bricked-up. I wonder what's hidden within it's walls...

 

[BlueCrab]

Do you own a house, BlueCrab? If you do, then you, like myself, probably know a dozen little places in that house where something can be hid and never found. Especially in a house with a basement, where items can be dropped into walls or air ducts and the entire house would have to be dismantled in order to find those items. With the amount of money the BPD spent on this investigation they should have done just that, bought the house and torn it down from the inside out.

I always found it pecular that when the Ramsey lawyers bought the house the first thing they did was had the wine celler bricked-up. I wonder what's hidden within it's walls...

Yes Shylock, I own my own house, and after I retired early from the corporate world I was a building contractor for over 10 years. I sort of agree with you and have told myself I wish I had a chance to look for those missing items in the house.

The Ramseys did give the cops permission to destructive-search the house, which they did to a limited degree (they tore out some toilets and drywall, etc.,). But concrete building blocks are hollow and can effectively hide things. However, the cops didn't have a million bucks in their budget to buy the house and destroy it.

JMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I always found it pecular that when the Ramsey lawyers bought the house the first thing they did was had the wine celler bricked-up. I wonder what's hidden within it's walls...

Shylock, when it is you think the bricking up was done?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

The cord used on JonBenét was identified by Steve Thomas as Stansport brand, 32-strand, woven, 3/16-inch nylon cord. ST purchased packages of 50-foot lengths from both the Boulder Army Store and McGuckin's Hardware, after a tip from MaskedMan (and, I believe, from Jeff Shapiro).

It's soft, pliable, and feels silky.

Because it is very narrow and "cuts" into your hand painfully if you pull against it, I think that's the reason a handle was used on the garrote cord.

 

[Ivy]

Since the "intruder" left no fingerprints, he must have been wearing gloves...so how could the cord have hurt his hands? The handle is typical of kid-type gadgets. I have two sons, so I've seen many.

IMO

 

[Shylock]

Shylock, when it is you think the bricking up was done?

I know exactly what time frame it was done in. John arranged for his lawyer buddies to buy the house. Before they put the house on the market they had the room bricked-up.

If I remember right, Katie Couric took a tour of the house with Lou Smit during that time period and Smit showed her the bricked-up wall. That was the same broadcast where Smit climbed through the window and showed that it was impossible not to sit on the window sill and disturb dirt that the crime scene photos show had been there for months.

 

[Shylock]

It's soft, pliable, and feels silky.
Because it is very narrow and "cuts" into your hand painfully if you pull against it, I think that's the reason a handle was used on the garrote cord.

You have the description right. But I have a package of this cord and you can pull on it for a LONG period of time without hurting your hands. At least a man can, LovelyPigeon. Maybe you just made a good case for Patsy or Burke making the garrote.

I personally think the garrote was made by Burke as a toy, and may not have even been constructed that night.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

JonBenét's hair is caught inside the knot of the garrote handle. Hair had to be cut to remove the garrote from her neck. The knots were tied while JonBenét was right there.

I believe that in order to pull the cord to tighten it around JonBenét's neck one would have to wrap it around their hand, not just pull on the end of the cord. Wrapping it around and pulling is painful. I think the handle was added for the convenience, comfort, and control of the killer.

 

[Shylock]

JonBenét's hair is caught inside the knot of the garrote handle. Hair had to be cut to remove the garrote from her neck. The knots were tied while JonBenét was right there.

This is not a hard fact LP, think about. The only way to tell if her hair was "tied" into the knot would be to untie the knot. We don't know if that has ever been done.

Otherwise, her hair could have just been PULLED unto the knot when the garrote was yanked tight. This happens all the time, and anyone who has tied back their hair has experienced it. I even get a similar situation with my dog's collar which is braided and has to be cut off at bath time--and I certainly didn't braid it on the dog...LOL.

There is no proof the garrote was tied on JonBenet (that we know of).

 

[TLynn]

It's my understanding the garrote was NOT a slip knot...so, there would've been no tightening by pulling the handle.

I thought it was a double knot wrapped around the neck (I believe the hair was included during that process).

 

[Shylock]

It's my understanding the garrote was NOT a slip knot...so, there would've been no tightening by pulling the handle.

I think there is a photo which clearly shows it being a slip knot. Perhaps our new moderator, the keeper of the JBR photo vault, can find it and post it.
How about it MakeToast?

 

[Ivy]

Here's a link to a photo of the cord device from ACR's site:

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote3.jpg

IMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I think I have all views of the garrote that have been made public on this page:
http://www.geocities.com/lovelypigeon/neck_photos_garrote.html

Hair is clearly caught up inside the knot on the handle. Not even Smit and ST disagree on that point. Meyer makes note of the hair inside the knot in the autopsy report.

I don't think names of the knots used in the garrote have ever been released--if Van Tassell even identified any knots by name.

 

[BlueCrab]

I don't think names of the knots used in the garrote have ever been released--if Van Tassell even identified any knots by name.

In the autopsy report Meyer said "Wrapped around the neck with a double knot in the midline of the posterior neck is a length of white cord ...". But he didn't try to give the "double knot" a specific name.

It could have been a slip knot that didn't work properly by not gently loosening up during EA and thus accidentally killed JonBenet by asphyxiation. In that scenario the violent part of the strangulation that followed was staging.

JMO

 

[TLynn]

Meyer calls it a "double knot" - not a slip knot. The photos are a tough call, but I don't see a slip knot - just cord tightly threading through another knot.

 

[BlueCrab]

After reviewing LP's photos of the ligature above (post #37), it appears the knot could be a noose.

Here's what various noose knots look like:

http://www.realknots.com/knots/noose.htm

JMO