Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

[Footwarrior]

following up on this case and going to start reading this thread from the beginning so i can post with everyone. not really sure what my opinion is on all of this yet

You may want to read this summary:

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/CaseSummary.html

 

[aa9511]

actually, you completely misunderstood him.

kc: and he is now serving 16 years in prison for the crime and you believe justice has been served?
rs: well, uh, i have other ideas about the enjailment in general
kc: you think his sentence should've been longer?
rs: i don't want to judge... for what i experienced, for me, the enjailment has no reason at all. So it's not the number of years you spend in prison that can relieve pain like that.

he's talking about HIS enjailment... it has no reason at all... b/c he's innocent.

it's sad how the facts get so minsinterpreted in this case. another example was someone posting that AK's footprint in blood was found in the hallway. no, it was not.






http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-01.html

Sorry, but I don't think I misunderstood him, at least not the way you describe. In fact, after re-playing a few times I'm more sure that is exactly what he meant.
KC: Rudy Guede is now serving 16 years in prison. So do you believe justice has been served?
RS: Well, I have other ideas of enjailment in general.
KC: So you think the sentence should have been longer?
RS: Well, I don't want to judge....from what I experienced, for me, enjailment has no reason at all. So,...it's...it's not the amount of years that you spend in prison that can relieve a kind of pain like that.

For your interpretation to work, you would have to completely take out the sentence "Rudy Guede is now serving 16 years in prison." It would just have to be "So do you believe justice has been served?" based solely on Raffaelo's imprisonment. In other words, Katie would have to have been asking ONLY about Raffaelo's imprisonment, NOT Rudy G's, which is what she was actually talking about. And Raf clearly understood that she said "Rudy Guede is now serving 16 years in prison." Which is what all the subsequent quesions in that little exchange were about.

Another thing to note is that Raf said "the enjailment" and is not THE as in how we use it in English, he says the enjailment as in French or something where they would say le or la [insert French or Italian word for imprisonment}. I'm not sure what the exact words are in Italian, but you get what I mean. So he didn't literally mean THE enjailment, as in MY enjailment. So like in your translation, you wrote "well, uh, I have other ideas about the enjailment in general," making it sound like he was talking about his own specific imprisonment. But he was actually saying "I have other ideas about enjailment in general." For example, in English we would write "I have other ideas about cups," but the French would write something like "I have other ideas about 'those' cups", using les, but it would still mean the same thing. If you'll forgive me, I don't remember exact words in French, but I remember the way they use le, la, les, I think Italian would be the same way. That is just Raffaelo trying to translate his Italian into English in his head, a lot of Europeans do that.

Another translation you did was "for me, the enjailment has no reason at all," but my translation of that is "for me, enjailment has no reason at all" as in IN HIS VIEW, imprisonment does not really help anything. I really really think what he's saying there is that jailing someone, what's the point, it's not going to bring back the loved one, it's not going to help anything in the end. I am sticking to that, I know that's what he meant. "THE enjailment" means the same thing as imprisonment IN GENERAL, it just gets lost in the translation and how he translates it into English.

And might I add one more thing....I think you don't want to see it for how he meant it because it would show how uncaring/unfeeling he is for Meredith's death. B/c that is a pretty cruel thing to say that serving 16 years is, in his opinion, too long for Meredith's death. But I have to say that I WAS NOT looking for Raffaelo to say something like that or show any side like that in his interview. I had already listened to another one he did, where he said all of the "right" things. And I had already listened to a few of Amanda's where she also said all of the right things and appeared very mature and responsible and also innocent if you go based solely on her word. I started listening to this interview thinking of course, he would say the "lines" he was supposed to, of course he would not say something out of line. After all, this was nationally televised, I had no expectations that either of them would say anything that would make them look bad.

But then I heard that and I understood it for what it meant. And it took me by surprise. My point is, I was not listening to it trying to nit-pick and find something he would say "wrong."

 

[dog.gone.cute]

:seeya: Court will reconvene tomorrow, October 4.


Here is the Twitter link for Andrea Vogt who will be at the courthouse tweeting updates.


https://twitter.com/andreavogt

 

[A.D.A McCoy]

To avoid the horrors of going to a store and buying new underwear?

:banghead:

Amanda was locked outside of her apartment for an indefinite time. She has no clothes other than the ones she was wearing when the body was discovered.

< modsnip>

How many pairs of underwear did she buy? What other articles of clothing did she buy? Did she buy extra socks, t-shirts, bras, a toothbrush, shampoo, an extra pair of jeans, etc.? Afterall, according to you, poor Amanda was locked out of her apartment with "no clothes other than the ones she was wearing when the body was discovered."

I'm curious. Do you know? Or did she only walk around in her underwear, and that was her priority?

 

[rose222]

Sorry, but I don't think I misunderstood him, at least not the way you describe. In fact, after re-playing a few times I'm more sure that is exactly what he meant.
KC: Rudy Guede is now serving 16 years in prison. So do you believe justice has been served?
RS: Well, I have other ideas of enjailment in general.
KC: So you think the sentence should have been longer?
RS: Well, I don't want to judge....from what I experienced, for me, enjailment has no reason at all. So,...it's...it's not the amount of years that you spend in prison that can relieve a kind of pain like that.

For your interpretation to work, you would have to completely take out the sentence "Rudy Guede is now serving 16 years in prison." It would just have to be "So do you believe justice has been served?" based solely on Raffaelo's imprisonment. In other words, Katie would have to have been asking ONLY about Raffaelo's imprisonment, NOT Rudy G's, which is what she was actually talking about. And Raf clearly understood that she said "Rudy Guede is now serving 16 years in prison." Which is what all the subsequent quesions in that little exchange were about.

Another thing to note is that Raf said "the enjailment" and is not THE as in how we use it in English, he says the enjailment as in French or something where they would say le or la [insert French or Italian word for imprisonment}. I'm not sure what the exact words are in Italian, but you get what I mean. So he didn't literally mean THE enjailment, as in MY enjailment. So like in your translation, you wrote "well, uh, I have other ideas about the enjailment in general," making it sound like he was talking about his own specific imprisonment. But he was actually saying "I have other ideas about enjailment in general." For example, in English we would write "I have other ideas about cups," but the French would write something like "I have other ideas about 'those' cups", using les, but it would still mean the same thing. If you'll forgive me, I don't remember exact words in French, but I remember the way they use le, la, les, I think Italian would be the same way. That is just Raffaelo trying to translate his Italian into English in his head, a lot of Europeans do that.

Another translation you did was "for me, the enjailment has no reason at all," but my translation of that is "for me, enjailment has no reason at all" as in IN HIS VIEW, imprisonment does not really help anything. I really really think what he's saying there is that jailing someone, what's the point, it's not going to bring back the loved one, it's not going to help anything in the end. I am sticking to that, I know that's what he meant. "THE enjailment" means the same thing as imprisonment IN GENERAL, it just gets lost in the translation and how he translates it into English.

And might I add one more thing....I think you don't want to see it for how he meant it because it would show how uncaring/unfeeling he is for Meredith's death. B/c that is a pretty cruel thing to say that serving 16 years is, in his opinion, too long for Meredith's death. But I have to say that I WAS NOT looking for Raffaelo to say something like that or show any side like that in his interview. I had already listened to another one he did, where he said all of the "right" things. And I had already listened to a few of Amanda's where she also said all of the right things and appeared very mature and responsible and also innocent if you go based solely on her word. I started listening to this interview thinking of course, he would say the "lines" he was supposed to, of course he would not say something out of line. After all, this was nationally televised, I had no expectations that either of them would say anything that would make them look bad.

But then I heard that and I understood it for what it meant. And it took me by surprise. My point is, I was not listening to it trying to nit-pick and find something he would say "wrong."

You understood it correctly. He's one of *those* who thinks that prisons serve no purpose. How did this guy make it through high school? No need for prisons ya know. Just butcher the life out of people and get set free. Life's a ball! :banghead:

 

[Bit Analyzer]

following up on this case and going to start reading this thread from the beginning so i can post with everyone. not really sure what my opinion is on all of this yet

MOO. I have followed this case extensively since the beginning. Anyone new to the case can read the most comprehensive information at this site:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page

On the left side of the site, there are direct links to case wiki summary, and translations of each courts findings, IMO, mandatory reading jumping in at this stage, to fully grasp the complexities of the case, the Italian court workings, and the extensive PR effort inserted on behalf of Amanda Knox.

English translations of the previous courts rulings, and the last appeal court admonitions and overturning leave no doubt in my mind that all three are culpable. Who administered the fatal slash may remain a mystery until or unless one confesses. MOO

 

[Tugela]

No, the source claimed Meredith's DNA was not in the Luminol footprints. It was. The Luminol footprints are considered to have been made in blood because there are no alternatives for anything else that reacts to Luminol like blood does. The DNA only confirms this. We had this discussion many times.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Luminol_Traces

But, if the footprints were made from blood, then cleaned up, the blood would be smeared out and not in the form of footprints. The luminol would in that case produce a broad swath across the floor.

If there were luminol positive footprints, and there was not blood there, the footprints were made in some way other than with blood. Luminol reacts with many common materials which might occur in a home. One way they might have been left there is if someone walked over a recently cleaned floor in bare feet, the residue from their feet (sweat, skin, etc) could have produced a mask which protect the residual cleaning agent from subsequent washing. If that was subsequently treated with luminol it would light up, and you would not require blood for that to happen at all.

Meredith lived in her apartment. Her DNA would have been literally all over the place. Finding traces would not be surprising.

If these luminol footprints were made from blood, there would be lots of biological material still there in cracks and crevices and they would be stiff with her DNA. That apparently was not the case, so IMO the evidence shows that the footprints are not part of the crime scene as envisaged by the prosecution. I am pretty sure they are completely wrong about that.

I think a lot of people have a major misunderstanding when it comes to luminol. It is NOT specific for blood, it will react with many things, blood among them (specifically, the iron in blood). It is not used in the way depicted on TV. It is used to locate sites in a crime scene where blood potentially might be found. Once a potential site has been located, a more detailed examination is then done to find the blood itself.

 

[redheadedgal]

My point is, I was not listening to it trying to nit-pick and find something he would say "wrong."

i stand by what i said.

like i said, witch hunt

 

[rose222]

Thanks for this link. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Luminol_Traces
<modsnip>

 

[sherlockh]

But, if the footprints were made from blood, then cleaned up, the blood would be smeared out and not in the form of footprints. The luminol would in that case produce a broad swath across the floor.

If there were luminol positive footprints, and there was not blood there, the footprints were made in some way other than with blood. Luminol reacts with many common materials which might occur in a home. One way they might have been left there is if someone walked over a recently cleaned floor in bare feet, the residue from their feet (sweat, skin, etc) could have produced a mask which protect the residual cleaning agent from subsequent washing. If that was subsequently treated with luminol it would light up, and you would not require blood for that to happen at all.

Meredith lived in her apartment. Her DNA would have been literally all over the place. Finding traces would not be surprising.

If these luminol footprints were made from blood, there would be lots of biological material still there in cracks and crevices and they would be stiff with her DNA. That apparently was not the case, so IMO the evidence shows that the footprints are not part of the crime scene as envisaged by the prosecution. I am pretty sure they are completely wrong about that.

I think a lot of people have a major misunderstanding when it comes to luminol. It is NOT specific for blood, it will react with many things, blood among them (specifically, the iron in blood). It is not used in the way depicted on TV. It is used to locate sites in a crime scene where blood potentially might be found. Once a potential site has been located, a more detailed examination is then done to find the blood itself.

And if they put fruit pulp on their feet it wouldn't smear? I looked it up once. There is only very few things that react to Luminol in the same way as blood does. Sorry, but I don't believe in 'DNA all over the place'. More people lived there and more people visited there. Their DNA isn't all over the place. The DNA traces found are all very specifically connected to the murder IMO.

 

[sherlockh]

Today there was a very short trial. The testing team for the knife was assigned to the Carabinieri Ris. They have about a month to present the results on November 6th. Then there was the prison witness Aviello who first said his brother did it, then said he was bribed so he had to be reheard, and today he said again his brother did it. He appeared in women's clothing and didn't make much sense from what I read. I am not sure if he even has a brother So next trial is on November 6th.

 

[Snoopster]

:seeya: Court will reconvene tomorrow, October 4.


Here is the Twitter link for Andrea Vogt who will be at the courthouse tweeting updates.


https://twitter.com/andreavogt

Based on a tweet of hers this morning, Andrea is attending and presenting at a journalism conference today.

She said for tweets from the courtroom today to go here:


https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione

(unfortunately it is in Italian)

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Based on a tweet of hers this morning, Andrea is attending and presenting at a journalism conference today.

She said for tweets from the courtroom today to go here:

https://twitter.com/qn_lanazione

(unfortunately it is in Italian)

:seeya: I am so sorry about that ! I did not see anything on her main page stating that she would not be attending Court today when I posted the link ...

If I find any tweets in English or in English translation, I will post them !

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Today there was a very short trial. The testing team for the knife was assigned to the Carabinieri Ris. They have about a month to present the results on November 6th. Then there was the prison witness Aviello who first said his brother did it, then said he was bribed so he had to be reheard, and today he said again his brother did it. He appeared in women's clothing and didn't make much sense from what I read. I am not sure if he even has a brother So next trial is on November 6th.

:seeya: Thanks for the update !

Aviello's "story" that his brother did it is just as "outrageous" as he is ... and from what I read recently, Aviello's brother is no longer alive. How convenient !

:twocents: I do believe Aviello was "bribed" by the Sollecito defense forces, and was hoping that he would at least tell something of the "truth" today ...

Obviously, those "bribes" kept coming because he was back to story #1, which is BS ...

:moo:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

"The new trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for the murder of the British student Meredith Kercher took a surreal turn on Friday when a convicted mafia gangster told a court that her brother was responsible for the death in 2007.

Lucia Aviello, who first made her claims in court in 2011, said: "I totally confirm the accusations against my brother Antonio, who is guilty ..."


http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-retrial-transgender-mafioso-meredith-kercher



BBM: Aviello is a convicted mafia gangster which makes him / her -- totally UNBELIEVABLE !

Also, there is a reference that Aviello's brother is deceased.


:twocents: Oh, one more thing : NOT ONE trace or shred of evidence to support Aviello's "story" was found at the cottage !

:moo:

 

[rose222]

"The new trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito for the murder of the British student Meredith Kercher took a surreal turn on Friday when a convicted mafia gangster told a court that her brother was responsible for the death in 2007.

Lucia Aviello, who first made her claims in court in 2011, said: "I totally confirm the accusations against my brother Antonio, who is guilty ..."


http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-retrial-transgender-mafioso-meredith-kercher



BBM: Aviello is a convicted mafia gangster which makes him / her -- totally UNBELIEVABLE !

Also, there is a reference that Aviello's brother is deceased.


:twocents: Oh, one more thing : NOT ONE trace or shred of evidence to support Aviello's "story" was found at the cottage !

:moo:

Thanks. Why do they give these crazies any importance at all and allow them to testify? :scared:

No evidence = no relevance!

 

[Harmony 2]

But, if the footprints were made from blood, then cleaned up, the blood would be smeared out and not in the form of footprints. The luminol would in that case produce a broad swath across the floor.

If there were luminol positive footprints, and there was not blood there, the footprints were made in some way other than with blood. Luminol reacts with many common materials which might occur in a home. One way they might have been left there is if someone walked over a recently cleaned floor in bare feet, the residue from their feet (sweat, skin, etc) could have produced a mask which protect the residual cleaning agent from subsequent washing. If that was subsequently treated with luminol it would light up, and you would not require blood for that to happen at all.

Meredith lived in her apartment. Her DNA would have been literally all over the place. Finding traces would not be surprising.

If these luminol footprints were made from blood, there would be lots of biological material still there in cracks and crevices and they would be stiff with her DNA. That apparently was not the case, so IMO the evidence shows that the footprints are not part of the crime scene as envisaged by the prosecution. I am pretty sure they are completely wrong about that.

I think a lot of people have a major misunderstanding when it comes to luminol. It is NOT specific for blood, it will react with many things, blood among them (specifically, the iron in blood). It is not used in the way depicted on TV. It is used to locate sites in a crime scene where blood potentially might be found. Once a potential site has been located, a more detailed examination is then done to find the blood itself.

The field kits like luminol are preliminary screening tests for the possible presence of blood. The suspicious print or stain is then further tested with highly sensitive presumptive tests to determine whether the stain IS blood or not. The presumptive test used in this case was Tetramethylbenzidine.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bc...es/forensic-programs-crime-scene-luminol.aspx
http://www.cbdiai.org/Articles/grispino_8-91.pdf

A wide range of domestic and industrial substances that might be mistaken for haemoglobin in the forensic luminol test for blood

some care should be taken when surfaces covered with terracotta or ceramic tiles, polyurethane varnishes or jute and sisal matting are involved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11512147

http://tritechforensics.com/store/product/tetramethylbenzidine-tmb-blood-test-kit/

From Massei report (English Version) page 256-257:

“With respect to the Luminol-positive traces found in Romanelli’s room, in Knox’s room and in the corridor, she stated that by analysing the SAL cards “we learn, in contradiction to what was presented in the technical report deposited by the Scientific Police, and also to what was said in Court, that not only was the Luminol test performed on these traces, but also the generic diagnosis for the presence of blood, using tetramethylbenzidine, and this test, gave a negative result on all the items of evidence from which it was possible to obtain a genetic profile”

In answer to specific questions about the Luminol-positive traces, she stated that from the technical report one exclusively learn that at the crime scene, these traces returned a positive reaction, like that which has come to be defined as the generic analysis made with Luminol, whereas in fact it could be seen from examining the SAL cards that testing specifically for blood had been carried out and had "resulted as negative "

http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf


http://www.newscientist.com/article...tion-can-affect-court-cases.html#.Uk0Dw8Mo7IU

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/How-innocent-man-s-DNA-was-found-at-killing-scene-4624971.php

 

[otto]

I guess we wait another month before the appeal moves forward. Aviello's testimony was some sort of formality, an opportunity for him/her to clarify his/her confusing, contradictory testimony. It seems that she/he hasn't added anything to the process. (note: he/she is in the process of undergoing a sex change operation in prison)

November 6, we should hear results from the analysis on the DNA sample that was found on a groove of the knife blade.

In many ways, Sollecito and Knox permanently damaged their lives and futures by lying during a murder investigation, making false accusations against an innocent man and presenting bizarre behavior/remarks. Although they may not spend more time in prison, I think that they will always live in a type of hell due to their involvement in the murder of Meredith Kercher. Their drug history and dishonesty will always limit their opportunities, and many people will always have a lingering doubt about their innocence even if they are successful in this appeal.

 

[aa9511]

You understood it correctly. He's one of *those* who thinks that prisons serve no purpose. How did this guy make it through high school? No need for prisons ya know. Just butcher the life out of people and get set free. Life's a ball! :banghead:

Thank you, Rose. I just thought it was a slight opening into how his mind works, also of course just like Amanda, it's about ME ME ME. Oh no, forget about the girl who got butchered, what's wrong about this whole prison system is that I had to suffer. And not only do I have to suffer, but the person who we know 100% is guilty of the crime....oh no, he doesn't deserve prison either, donchaknow??

Also, IMO, it shows how little he valued Meredith's life to begin with. That he could even fathom that someone who raped her and stabbed her TO DEATH....well, why does he have to "suffer" for so many years? Come on, Meredith's family....GET A CLUE...she ain't never coming back, so why don't y'all just get over it. What is all this you're doing, it's never gonna relieve your pain? So what's the point? Why are you making all the rest of us suffer b/c of your dum$ little emotions, including why are you making the known killer suffer?

 

[aa9511]

i stand by what i said.

like i said, witch hunt

It's not a witch hunt when you are just listening to someone and THEY SAY SOMETHING which is very strange and uncaring.