Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL* #2

[otto]

Maybe an example will help explain why people are shocked that Knox and Sollecito were happily buying lingerie and publicly talking sex shortly after the murder. Every once in a while, a school aged child dies accidentally. The normal reaction, where I'm from, is for the school to contact grief counsellors and ensure that children have an opportunity to appropriately process the experience and cope with the loss. That service can last a couple weeks, longer if required - where the utmost respect is shown to all that feel a loss. All the children seem to understand that, even if they did not know the deceased child well, it is inappropriate to fool around and disrespect the people that are feeling sad about the loss.

What Knox and Sollecito did, in the eyes of many, was to fool around and disrespect the people that really did care about Meredith. They did this very publicly at a time when they should have known that a more sober attitude was necessary.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

IMO, "eyebrows lifting" would be done regardless of their actions, inactions, smirks, laughs, tears, thongs, tighty whitys, etc. It's just what people do when they are looking to support their "gut instinct" on which they rely. We all apply our own emotions to others and then compare and contrast to deem what is normal. It's an inherent but primal part of us.

 

[SMK]

Seems that this appeal trial is not going all that great for the prosecution:

The Aviello testimony was bad and they have cut dates and so would seem to be rushing the trial.
Any thoughts on this?

 

[otto]

IMO, "eyebrows lifting" would be done regardless of their actions, inactions, smirks, laughs, tears, thongs, tighty whitys, etc. It's just what people do when they are looking to support their "gut instinct" on which they rely. We all apply our own emotions to others and then compare and contrast to deem what is normal. It's an inherent but primal part of us.

There was no "gut instinct" at the time that this happened. Knox and Sollecito were not arrested and no one had any way of knowing that they were lying to police about their activities on the night of the murder. All the witness of this bizarre behavior knew was that the room mate of the murdered student was acting up in the lingerie department a couple of days after "her friend" was found murdered with 43 injuries.

 

[otto]

Seems that this appeal trial is not going all that great for the prosecution:

The Aviello testimony was bad and they have cut dates and so would seem to be rushing the trial.
Any thoughts on this?

Aviello first claimed that his brother murdered Meredith. Then, he claimed that Sollecito's lawyer offered him a bag of cash in exchange for that testimony. The bag of cash was to be used for the sex change operation. On Friday, Aviello said that he lied when he said that Sollecito's lawyer offered him a bag of cash. He is currently on trial for perjury regarding other false testimony that he has given.

He was heard in court on a procedural matter, as far as I understand. His testimony ... whether his brother murdered Meredith and whether he was offered money to provide false testimony, doesn't have much to do with the verdict in the appeal.

How do you see the testimony of Aviello, a known liar facing perjury charges, as influencing the appeal court's decision?

 

[rose222]

Knox and Sollecito did very inappropriate things and made very inappropriate remarks immediately after Meredith was murdered.

They did go shopping for underwear two days after Meredith was murdered. While they were shopping, they were very affectionate and apparently were overheard making remarks about having sex after purchasing the new underwear. The point is not so much the type of underwear that was purchased, but the inappropriate behavior and remarks during the shopping trip. That struck people as highly inappropriate, or shocking, given that Knox claims that Meredith was "her friend". People have had trouble resolving the "she was my friend" comment with Knox's actions: canoodling in the lingerie department and publicly planning sex so soon after the murder. It resulted in people believing that Knox was emotionally disconnected from the murder.

Unfortunately, the discussion about the inappropriate behavior during the shopping trip usually devolves into a comment about they type of underwear that was purchased ... whereas that is not entirely the point that raises eyebrows.

When you consider the brutality of the murder and just how devastated Meredith's friends were and then contrast this with Knox's reactions it's really beyond cruel. Being unable to cry or talk after a tragedy is one thing. Some people stay in shock when a tragedy occurs. I get that.

On the other hand, laughing, having or at least talking about sex on the day of the memorial etc. is indicative of guilt. Scott Peterson ordered p$rn after Laci went missing. He was talking to Amber during the vigil for Laci. Casey was having sex with Tony and buying lingerie in the weeks following the death of Caylee. Why is it that most of us agreed that those were signs of guilt but when it comes to Knox this bizarre behaviour is excused away? If she had done this to an American girl she'd be as hated as Casey and Jodi.

 

[SMK]

Aviello first claimed that his brother murdered Meredith. Then, he claimed that Sollecito's lawyer offered him a bag of cash in exchange for that testimony. The bag of cash was to be used for the sex change operation. On Friday, Aviello said that he lied when he said that Sollecito's lawyer offered him a bag of cash. He is currently on trial for perjury regarding other false testimony that he has given.

He was heard in court on a procedural matter, as far as I understand. His testimony ... whether his brother murdered Meredith and whether he was offered money to provide false testimony, doesn't have much to do with the verdict in the appeal.

How do you see the testimony of Aviello, a known liar facing perjury charges, as influencing the appeal court's decision?

I am taking most of my information from the "True Justice for Meredith Kercher" site, and the running commentary within. I had lost track of this whole trial and did not even know until today that it had begun in Florence on Sep. 30. I wonder why some of the posters are taking the view that things are not going well? (see below)

<modsnip>

 

[otto]

I am taking most of my information from the "True Justice for Meredith Kercher" site, and the running commentary within. I had lost track of this whole trial and did not even know until today that it had begun in Florence on Sep. 30. I wonder why some of the posters are taking the view that things are not going well? (see below)

<modsnip>

I can't begin to respond to comments posted on some other discussion board.

From following the case, I understand that Aviello is a known liar and a mafia person that injected himself into this case. He is in court facing perjury charges related to another matter. He is also in process of becoming a woman. I do not see how anything he says could influence a legal decision in a murder trial. Clearly, he is an unreliable, confused person.

 

[Cappuccino]

When you consider the brutality of the murder and just how devastated Meredith's friends were and then contrast this with Knox's reactions it's really beyond cruel. Being unable to cry or talk after a tragedy is one thing. Some people stay in shock when a tragedy occurs. I get that.

On the other hand, laughing, having or at least talking about sex on the day of the memorial etc. is indicative of guilt. Scott Peterson ordered p$rn after Laci went missing. He was talking to Amber during the vigil for Laci. Casey was having sex with Tony and buying lingerie in the weeks following the death of Caylee. Why is it that most of us agreed that those were signs of guilt but when it comes to Knox this bizarre behaviour is excused away? If she had done this to an American girl she'd be as hated as Casey and Jodi.

BBM.

You're over looking an important difference - Drew Peterson was married to the victim, Casey Anthony was the victim's mother, but Amanda Knox and Meredith Kercher had only known each other a few weeks. I would expect a difference in the level of grief shown by a husband/parent, and two room mates who were unrelated and had known each other a short time.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

BBM.

You're over looking an important difference - Drew Peterson was married to the victim, Casey Anthony was the victim's mother, but Amanda Knox and Meredith Kercher had only known each other a few weeks. I would expect a difference in the level of grief shown by a husband/parent, and two room mates who were unrelated and had known each other a short time.

I agree. Our expectations of grief shown vary with the relationship to the victim. Personally I would be too busy shaking in my boots about the recent murder in my home to be smooching and carrying on. But people react differently in distress. However, I wouldn't expect much mourning behavior.

 

[SMK]

I can't begin to respond to comments posted on some other discussion board.

From following the case, I understand that Aviello is a known liar and a mafia person that injected himself into this case. He is in court facing perjury charges related to another matter. He is also in process of becoming a woman. I do not see how anything he says could influence a legal decision in a murder trial. Clearly, he is an unreliable, confused person.

Obviously , posters at TJMK thought he would "blow up the pot" , whatever that may mean, and were gravely disappointed. As far as cancelled dates and the appeal being shortened, that could be bad for the prosecution. Depends what the reasons were.

 

[redheadedgal]

I don't see the pic but in general the brightest illuminations were from the feet. The area around it doesn't react so strong. I think there could be several explanations. My best guess is that it was from their cleaning activities before they were stupid enough to put their feet on the floor. I never understood how this is supposed to explain away the bright reactions to Luminol from their bare feet anyway. You can't expect me to explain every singe blue dot on the Luminol pictures. It is those bright reactions from the feet that matter. JMO.

sorry if my album privacy setting was wrong... i'll link it again below.

so you infer they cleaned the floor with bloody feet? and then walked all over the cleaned floor with those bloody feet? wouldn't that negate the reason to clean the floor in the first place? personally, i would clean my bloody feet off before i cleaned a bloody floor. this just makes no sense to me...

it's not just blue dots... it's all along the grouting. and, imo, and in the opinion of others, if they'd cleaned the floor, there would've been streaks even with minimal amounts of blood. i'll link a pic of a version of this too.

like i said before, if you are asserting the blue is blood, you cannot then state the rest of the blue isn't blood.

The court has ruled and there is no excuse for not paying. Besides it is not smart to show no respect for the courts rulings at the start of your own appeal.

isn't AK appealing the slander conviction? has that been dealt with yet? maybe she's appealing the defamation judgment too? would one be contingent on the other? maybe legalities are the reason no payment has been made?

The only reason I can see for this is that she is essentially PRESERVING EVIDENCE. I can see no other explaination.

she was preserving evidence of RG? but didn't mention him to the ILE?

or, maybe she was just lazy? (hasn't this been said about her many times? lack of care and concern about cleaning habits?)

Much is made of he "strange" behavior of AK and RS on the morning of Nov. 2nd leading right up to the event after the arrival of the Communications Police and finding MK's body.

Knox and Sollecito did very inappropriate things and made very inappropriate remarks immediately after Meredith was murdered.

despite accusations based on their behavior, Lindy Chamberlain and Tara McDonald were not responsible of the deaths of their daughters:

The pressure to bring about the desirable result caused a loss of objectivity. Lindy Chamberlain`s behavior and image simply weren`t right for a religious, grieving mother.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...86_1_schepisi-leonard-nimoy-lindy-chamberlain

Not enough that she suffered the rumours and innuendo of accusation that swirled around not only her small town of Woodstock, but the nation as well.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/07/toris-mom-talks-about-unsavoury-past

Scott Peterson ordered p$rn after Laci went missing. He was talking to Amber during the vigil for Laci. Casey was having sex with Tony and buying lingerie in the weeks following the death of Caylee.

i never found these reasons indicative of guilt. there was plenty other evidence against both SP and CA. completely different situations, imo.

and if it was a canadian girl who was killed? with the same lack of forensic evidence and issues of contamination? i would not feel differently.

 

[SMK]

Originally Posted by sherlockh
The court has ruled and there is no excuse for not paying. Besides it is not smart to show no respect for the courts rulings at the start of your own appeal.

isn't AK appealing the slander conviction? has that been dealt with yet? maybe she's appealing the defamation judgment too? would one be contingent on the other? maybe legalities are the reason no payment has been made?

If Knox is found not guilty, she will likely appeal the calumnia charge also.

 

[redheadedgal]

The question I would ask is: How is it possible that the evidence on the item from Sollecito is allegedly a result of contamination, but the nearby evidence on the same item from Guede is authentic.

you mean the dna belonging to RG that was found on the bra strap? (not the clasp... that was that collected 40-some days later? and passed around? and put back on the floor)

remind me... when was the bra (and strap) collected? and is there video of the bra being passed around? of being placed back on the floor?

Any thoughts on why there was no DNA evidence of Knox on the lamp that was in her bedroom?

what do you think the significance of this is?

 

[sherlockh]

If Knox is found not guilty, she will likely appeal the calumnia charge also.

That is not possible. The calumnia charge is final. Confirmed by the SC.

 

[sherlockh]

sorry if my album privacy setting was wrong... i'll link it again below.

so you infer they cleaned the floor with bloody feet? and then walked all over the cleaned floor with those bloody feet? wouldn't that negate the reason to clean the floor in the first place? personally, i would clean my bloody feet off before i cleaned a bloody floor. this just makes no sense to me...

it's not just blue dots... it's all along the grouting. and, imo, and in the opinion of others, if they'd cleaned the floor, there would've been streaks even with minimal amounts of blood. i'll link a pic of a version of this too.

like i said before, if you are asserting the blue is blood, you cannot then state the rest of the blue isn't blood.

Snipped. Thanks. It is not so easy to clean bloody feet. They dry quickly and it is very difficult to scrub off all the blood. Just look at the bathmat print. Why is it always suggested that blood must leave streaks but 'fruit pulp' doesn't? I never understood that one. I don't agree that you must leave streaks. I think it is possible to clean a footprint completely. There are footprints missing after all. These discussions about the exact order in which they left the bloody footprints, or the grout, or the ruler, or the police boots are simply distractions from what really matters here which is that there were bloody footprints in the first place. You can't explain these with some 'fruit pulp'. They never claimed to have put any such substance on their feet. There is blood all over the place. Nothing else makes any sense. JMO.

 

[SMK]

That is not possible. The calumnia charge is final. Confirmed by the SC.

Knox's defense team could use these sorts of judicial process issues to appeal to the ECHR as it was unjust to have the Lumumba calunnia charge tried concurrently with the murder charges - some legal experts are arguing that Massei made a grievous error in ruling that the calunnia and murder charges were in continuance - and that they ought to have been tried separately.

If Knox is acquitted on the murder charges a case could be made in the ECHR on the calunnia conviction; her defense can argue that the judicial panel which heard the calunnia charge should not also have been hearing the murder charges. Why else has she refrained from paying, except that her defense has plans relating to the charge?

 

[sherlockh]

Knox's defense team could use these sorts of judicial process issues to appeal to the ECHR as it was unjust to have the Lumumba calunnia charge tried concurrently with the murder charges - some legal experts are arguing that Massei made a grievous error in ruling that the calunnia and murder charges were in continuance - and that they ought to have been tried separately.

If Knox is acquitted on the murder charges a case could be made in the ECHR on the calunnia conviction; her defense can argue that the judicial panel which heard the calunnia charge should not also have been hearing the murder charges. Why else has she refrained from paying, except that her defense has plans relating to the charge?

Did Knox or her lawyers ever state that that is the plan? Don't you have to appeal to ECHR within 6 months? The calumnia charge was finalized on March 25, 2013. Why haven't they started the appeal yet?

 

[aa9511]

Much is made of he "strange" behavior of AK and RS on the morning of Nov. 2nd leading right up to the event after the arrival of the Communications Police and finding MK's body. If there is anything that really seems "off the charts" unaccountable to me, it is the fact that AK finds a turd in the toilet in the second bathroom and is outraged and repulsed by it and mentions it to Filomina when she calls and to the Communication police when they are there but fails to do what would be the obvious: she doesn't FLUSH THE TOILET. The only reason I can see for this is that she is essentially PRESERVING EVIDENCE. I can see no other explaination.

ooohhh....good point!!

 

[aa9511]

BBM:

:seeya: Hi Molly ... you might get splinters if you sit on that fence too long ... :floorlaugh:

As to your comment that IF this case happened in the USA, here is my :twocents:

IF this case happened in the US, I think a conviction would be a slam dunk ...

I said this before, but she is lucky she did not commit this crime in Maricopa County because with Juan Martinez as a prosecutor, she would definitely be sitting on death row !


It's not just the DNA evidence that supports Knox and Raf were present, it is the TOTALITY of the evidence, which IMO outweighs the DNA.

Too much "weight" IMO is given to DNA evidence :

One cannot ignore the cell phone records and computer records of Knox and Sollecito -- the "stories" given by both do NOT match up to the cell and computer records ...

One cannot ignore the "staged break-in" and the "clean-up of the cottage" ...

And one cannot ignore the FACT that Knox BLAMED an INNOCENT MAN for the murder of Meredith ! And when she blamed Mr. Lumumba, she IMPLICATED HERSELF !

:twocents: <modsnip>

:moo:

I don't know....take the Levi Chavez case, there was a lot of evidence in the total, but the jury still came back not guilty. Levi explained away each evidence point, and the jury bought that and did not look at the circumstances and evidence as a whole.
He did the same thing Amanda did....the cell phone, oh there's an excuse for that, the laptop, oh I have a good excuse for that, etc. etc.. And the jury bought it.
Now, if Juan was prosecuting, then yes I believe the jury would come back guilty. But unfortunately, I don't think so if there was any other prosecutor.