Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

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  • #201
It is possible that she underwent psychosis on the day that she killed TA. it could explain the memory gap, and the sheer brutality of the killing.

That might be a possibility, but the murder seems much more premeditated than a brief psychotic episode could account for. If we believe the circumstantial evidence, she began to plan Travis murder before she left Yreka. The stolen gun, the rental car, etc. etc.
 
  • #202
I think she has a gooey, chewy, psychopath center wrapped up in a layer of antisocial personality, covered in a candy shell of borderline personality features.

She's a psychopath who has no empathy for others, she can't connect to anyone in her family, she is narcissistic and believes she can charm her way through life, uses sex to get what she wants. She wants what (and who) she wants and you better not go against her will, you might just die for it.
 
  • #203
This question has nothing to do with whether or not JA deserves to be punished for her grievous crime as clearly she does. But, is a borderline personality aware that that's what they are? I mean, do they have any control over their character? Does a psychopath?

This question ties in with understanding mental illness as awareness of it has been promoted in the media a lot lately. It seems there's sympathy when one kills theirself but not when one kills another human being. That's understandable but any killing action creates grief, sadness and destruction.

Since we know these types of people exist, we can teach other people what to look for/be aware of as far as behaviors go when they meet new people whether it be at college, church or the workplace. Many of the mental illness terms were foreign to me prior to my exposure to WS.

Knowledge about these illnesses/conditions might help people identify odd behaviors earlier even when they are couched behind claims of friendship/goodwill. Plus it's dangerous to jump into a relationship too quickly when you know nothing about a person's history/background.

Oprah - my other psychiatrist, lol! - has a saying that I believe Maya Angelou told her. It is, "when someone shows you who they are,
believe them."

I like that quote, I remember it as "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

From what I've read, you wouldn't be happy with a borderline personality in your life, and I hope you don't meet a psychopath, at least those who will kill.

There are plenty of sociopaths/psychopaths walking around and you'll know them by their phony emotions, displaying to you what they think you want to see. Their lack of empathy, their tendency to want what they want at all costs. The kind of person who feels that if only one of you can be happy, it will be him/her. Think of Ted Bundy without the murderer, then just add in the murderer part and you've got the psychopath who will kill.

JA modeled herself according to what the people she was around wanted; she could be sweet, innocent, caring, submissive or assertive, a good Mormon, a vixen. Whatever was necessary to get what she wanted. She must have asked Travis to take her to Cancun and not Mimi, and he refused.
 
  • #204
Some of the greatest minds and the arts are of those that have struggled with mental health disorders.

This is true, just not, um, um, psychopaths.
 
  • #205
I think she has a gooey, chewy, psychopath center wrapped up in a layer of antisocial personality, covered in a candy shell of borderline personality features.

She's a psychopath who has no empathy for others, she can't connect to anyone in her family, she is narcissistic and believes she can charm her way through life, uses sex to get what she wants. She wants what (and who) she wants and you better not go against her will, you might just die for it.

Lol that description has made my day.
 
  • #206
This is true, just not, um, um, psychopaths.

Ted Bundy was a smart guy and he knew it. Just like the in general population
Variety of intelligence. Wonder if she is still Mormon? She could be DE-EDIFYING the faith by recanting her place in it.
 
  • #207
i think Travis was a thrill kill and she can't wait to do it again.

she loved it, meant to steal the camera, meant to get away with it...meant every damm thing she did. Including her journal which is just garbage.
 
  • #208
I think she has a gooey, chewy, psychopath center wrapped up in a layer of antisocial personality, covered in a candy shell of borderline personality features....

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Accurate and funny too, imho!
 
  • #209
I like that quote, I remember it as "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

From what I've read, you wouldn't be happy with a borderline personality in your life,

We are not that bad.. At least those of us that aren't batshit crazy. I can get away with that kind of joke, because I have it.

We can function with others. It's when people get to close to us that problems develop and then sometimes it only shows itself with a significant other, and with others of us it affects friendships and relationships. On a more casual basis, in most cases, we're fine.

It also involves the person without bpd being smart by
1. knowing how to set personal boundaries
2. Is the person getting treatment, because if they're not then it's reasonable you can expect trouble, and NOT killing kind of trouble. You'd experience our anger, saying hurtful things, and then later regrets/apologies (this is the unstable relationship pattern discussed in the diagnostic criteria.)


The person without bpd isn't always the innocent party that they make themselves out to be. There are those that claim to have befriended us because they thought they could help and they felt bad for us or we needed them. It seems like it's almost always a "non" bpd male trying to save the bpd female. The "non" will present themselves as a "I'm just a nice guy trying to help someone" of course this is ********. These people deserve what they get, because almost always they have some sort of hidden agenda. It's basically the white knight syndrome.


this was written by a person with aspd. I think it gives some good insight. Please be respectful with comments. I placed it here to learn from a different perspective not to belittle or make fun of..
Antisocials are capable of feeling the full spectrum of human emotion. They are typically individuals who were socialized to be criminals, although genetics may be a factor. Children who are exposed to criminal, violent, and/or otherwise antisocial behaviour tend to model that behaviour. They are capable of feeling guilt, but they usually rationalize criminal acts. They believe that their target deserved having been harmed because they "fell for it" and "it's survival of the fittest" or any other such whimsical notion. On the other hand, they do feel guilty for harming one of their friends or family. Gangs are a good example of this. Other antisocials may have been able to feel guilt and empathy, but it was never developed during those essential early years of childhood. This is usually due to abusive or negligent parents. It's more that they can't develop healthy relationships in which trust and empathy can flourish than truly not feeling guilt or empathy.

And then there are the psychopaths... These are the sort that don't feel empathy or remorse at all for anyone. It's a brain abnormality. Primary psychopaths can feel certain emotions to a far lesser degree than most people, and what emotions we do feel are usually fleeting. Complex emotions we're completely oblivious to. For example, I'll jump at loud noises, feel irritated by annoying company, content, interested, etc ... But I'll never understand empathy, horror, selfless love, compassion, etc.

I read a book which stated that secondary psychopaths feel guilt constantly. During childhood, secondary psychopaths were punished regardless of what they did, which lead to high guilt and anxiety that was never associated with a bad deed. It was an interesting concept, but I can't seem to find the book at the moment. If I do, I'll be sure to post bits of it.
 
  • #210
i think Travis was a thrill kill and she can't wait to do it again.

she loved it, meant to steal the camera, meant to get away with it...meant every damm thing she did. Including her journal which is just garbage.

She does seem more giddy about the pictures and things than I'd expect if she weren't also warped about the violence of the crime. I think she didn't just do it as a means to a psychopathic end, yeah. I think she's one of those even sicker ones who truly like the gore aspect.

If any of y'all haven't seen her excitement about getting to see the crime scene photos during one of those first interviews, check it out. It's pretty mind boggling. She did find it thrilling, I think. She enjoyed it.
 
  • #211
There's a difference in owning your sexuality and using it as a weapon. JA, IMO, uses it as a weapon. She doesn't have to be all " yeah I'm a freak whatever". But don't cry rape when there are nude photos of you, sex tapes, and you drove states away to hook up with the dude. Don't act like Miss Frazzle from the Magic School Bus when I've seen you trying to rock the cheerleader look. I won't say TA was just a "dude", but he was not thinking with his brain. Sex releases endorphins and JA had him hooked. If she can call him abusive, I'm calling her a drug dealer. Sounds stupid, right? JA is manipulative and is still manipulating from behind bars. Her murder of TA reminds me of Ted Bundy almost. It's creepy and sick. Just like Bundy, she can't take responsibility.

The warning or moral of the story, I guess, is that men had better begin thinking more with their brains. It's clearly unfair that TA lost his life but their ongoing interactions had something to do with the outcome of his life. Weren't Ted Bundy's victims strangers he plucked off the street? His crimes aren't at all the same from a psychological perspective to me.

We can't turn back the clock, so I'm highlighting aspects of dangerous liaisons and reasons why something like this can escalate and happen in the first place. I agree, JA is unwilling to accept total responsibility for what she did to TA.
 
  • #212
I agree that Jodi butchered Travis savagely.
The difficulty I have with labelling her with any kind of PD (as yet), is because she has maintained reasonably long term relationships, and has no record of prior offending.
My own take at the moment is that these were two very damaged people, both of them with narcissistic wounding. It attracted them to each other, (the amazing 'Attraction Theory' lol), but seriously it is well recognised in therapy that we attract people based on unfinished business from our childhood.
The problems start when the 'business' can't be finished because the person we choose is likely to perpetrate the same wounding we experienced in childhood.
So for Travis, Jodi likely represented one of his parental figures, we know they were both drug addicted, and similar to any type of addiction (such as sexual addiction for instance). Any 'addiction' for Travis is not going to sit well.
Ultimately, their relationship was doomed to fail, because neither of them got their simmering childhood needs met. Of course I am speculating here, because we appear to know very little about Jodi's childhood, but it might suggest a sexual abuse past IDK...
What I see in Jodi, is a deep narcissistic wound and dissociation from reality, maybe PTSD or Complex PTSD regarding childhood abuse?
Complex PTSD can mimic BPD.
Travis wasn't responsible for the initial wounding but he certainly didn't help matters much. Her perceptions of his 'abuse' might be altered who knows? She was certainly insulted and rejected by him and his friends, and continues to be.
They both seem to have dealt with their baggage in different ways, internalising and externalising.
I'm just putting another scenario out there - to me they both look like the opposites of the wounded narcissistic coin.
Prepared to be dissuaded, but don't throw things at me please.
(Ducking for cover)

This sums up a complicated human tendency very nicely. I agree.
 
  • #213
Hi kids, forgot to record today but did catch some of the "questions". JA said her aunt found her sell phone that was lost/stolen in her grandfathers car. She used this terminology "my aunt that is sitting in the audience". This was so bang on to her view of herself. She is on stage and we are the audience. I'll be so glad to see her curtain closed.

Good observation. JA has said over and over again that she wanted, liked and enjoyed TA's attention no matter what they were doing. When they engaged in sexual activity, she had his full attention. Other times, not so much (except they took a bunch of trips together). That indicates she has very low self esteem. It doesn't sound as if they went on normal dates either - ones where the man buys dinner or pays for a movie.

Interestingly, JA has had everyone's attention for 18 days and counting now. Guess when you crave attention that much, it doesn't matter how you get it. :waitasec: She almost seems happy at times which is a big disconnect to me considering her circumstances. It must be because she has center stage.

In the videos I've seen, TA seems very boisterous and long winded as if he commanded everyone's attention. Just an interesting observation.
 
  • #214
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  • #215
I like that quote, I remember it as "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

From what I've read, you wouldn't be happy with a borderline personality in your life, and I hope you don't meet a psychopath, at least those who will kill.

There are plenty of sociopaths/psychopaths walking around and you'll know them by their phony emotions, displaying to you what they think you want to see. Their lack of empathy, their tendency to want what they want at all costs. The kind of person who feels that if only one of you can be happy, it will be him/her. Think of Ted Bundy without the murderer, then just add in the murderer part and you've got the psychopath who will kill.

JA modeled herself according to what the people she was around wanted; she could be sweet, innocent, caring, submissive or assertive, a good Mormon, a vixen. Whatever was necessary to get what she wanted. She must have asked Travis to take her to Cancun and not Mimi, and he refused.

bbm ~ huh, who would?
Thank you for your good wishes. :what:

I agree, JA tried to define herself through other people.
I'm not certain that's a psychopath though - could be.
 
  • #216
Well she fits several of these!

JA does fit these catagories, but she seems to have "something" more disturbing inside her. I believe it to be a demonic spirit. She has black lifeless eyes. She had supernatural strength to stab TA 27 times, drag that heavy body up and down the hallway, slit his throat and then dump him back into the shower stall.
 
  • #217
  • #218
Cool, I am new. How do I find the autopsy report for Travis Alexander??

Nurse help...I don't even get how this website works. I read the FAQ, but am still at a loss. This is a random reply cuz I don't know where to go. Any simple layman instructions on how to get around??? I am lost
 
  • #219
I'm new on these boards so just jumping in here as I've become an avid watcher of this trial. My two cents: I think Jodi is a borderline personality with narcissistic and sociopathic personality disorders combined. Borderline personality would account for an inability to accept rejection, to be extremely manipulative, and to exact revenge on those who abandon her. Her sexual manipulation of Travis was the only thing she had to reel him in but it wasn't enough to sustain the relationship. I think Travis was very immature when it came to sexcapades - once she opened that door he couldn't get enough but I do believe she was in control most of the time. Right now I think she's in way over her head and she's beginning to realize it. She thinks she's smarter than everyone in that courthouse. Today when she said something like if she's convicted she knows it will be her own fault....well, she's using what she thinks is reverse psychology on the jurors - she thinks that no one would believe that a guilty person would say such a thing. Many times she states that the "fight" in the bathroom "escalated" and she was in fear for her life but she can't describe what "escalate" means. The more she goes over that testimony the more it sounds weak and feeble because there was nothing to be afraid of. She won't admit to anger because it was more than that, it was rage. Anyway, that's my two cents.
;-) Zaza
 
  • #220
I'm new on these boards so just jumping in here as I've become an avid watcher of this trial. My two cents: I think Jodi is a borderline personality with narcissistic and sociopathic personality disorders combined. Borderline personality would account for an inability to accept rejection, to be extremely manipulative, and to exact revenge on those who abandon her. Her sexual manipulation of Travis was the only thing she had to reel him in but it wasn't enough to sustain the relationship. I think Travis was very immature when it came to sexcapades - once she opened that door he couldn't get enough but I do believe she was in control most of the time. Right now I think she's in way over her head and she's beginning to realize it. She thinks she's smarter than everyone in that courthouse. Today when she said something like if she's convicted she knows it will be her own fault....well, she's using what she thinks is reverse psychology on the jurors - she thinks that no one would believe that a guilty person would say such a thing. Many times she states that the "fight" in the bathroom "escalated" and she was in fear for her life but she can't describe what "escalate" means. The more she goes over that testimony the more it sounds weak and feeble because there was nothing to be afraid of. She won't admit to anger because it was more than that, it was rage. Anyway, that's my two cents.
;-) Zaza

Your post was worth much more than two cents! It was thoughtful and well written. Thanks for your contribution and I'm looking forward to reading more. Welcome to the board!
 
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