Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 *AL extortion trial* *Guilty* #3

[NuttMegg]

Facts matter: Van der Sloot confessed to murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez on the 5th year anniversary of Natalie vanishing, and was sentenced to serve 28 years in prison.

VDS said he found her using his laptop to read information about the Holloway case. After the murder VDS fled to Chile, where he was captured and extradited to Peru.

The prosecution asked for a 30-year sentence for first-degree murder and theft (stole her winnings), while VDS attorney argued his client was in an extreme case of psychological distress when he committed the murder and that his confession should be considered during sentencing.

As I said before, this phony defense didn't work for Stephany, and it doesn't work for Holloway either. MOO

https://ictnews.org/archive/van-der-sloot-sentenced-to-28-years-for-murder-of-peruvian-woman

He hasn't been accused of any crime in the Holloway case, he's not an le designated suspect. Unless you're referring to the extortion charge.

We're all talking about a case with 3 mutually exclusive parts. At least in my pov. I can't just say He's BAD, he did it all, despite no evidence of kidnapping, rape or murder ever happening by anyone.

So all the grisly facts of Stephany's murder don't have anything to do with Aruba.

I stand by all that I've said. For better or worse I doubt he'll be sent back to Peru. I think in the eyes of the us gov, the Netherlands trumps Peru, and NL will be closely monitoring the fairness of his treatment in America.

Imo

 

[NuttMegg]

From what I recall, LE wasn't cooperating or moving beyond a molasses pace, claiming in most cases they find the partying girls in an abandoned house a few days later because they OD'd. If you were Natalee's mother, would you not have pursued any angle you could have at the time, inc approaching the home of the person she was last seen with? What would you have suggested she do instead?

Work with LE instead of circumventing them. At the time that 12 people from Alabama confronted Paulus VDS in his driveway, it still was unknown who last saw Natalee.

 

[Arkay]

This has been the Beth Holloway show since day 1, when she and 11 others of the Alabama posse went to Joran's house to confront him and his father.

With respect, <modsnip: personalizing>

IMO as a mother and grandmother, she would have done anything to have Natalee just have arrived home safely. I’m certain the very last thing she ever wanted to do was to take a “posse” far away to question the last person who saw her daughter alive.

jmo

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Work with LE instead of circumventing them. At the time that 12 people from Alabama confronted Paulus VDS in his driveway, it still was unknown who last saw Natalee.

Did you follow the case then? She got nowhere with them initially!

 

[NuttMegg]

With respect, <modsnip: personalizing>

IMO as a mother and grandmother, she would have done anything to have Natalee just have arrived home safely. I’m certain the very last thing she ever wanted to do was to take a “posse” far away to question the last person who saw her daughter alive.

jmo

It was a show. You had to have seen the dozens of programs where she accused the boys of heinous crimes against her daughter. Other mothers' young sons. How long does a "pass" last? I just posted the link from Daily Mail where she is still saying that JVDS kidnapped and murdered her daughter.

One thing I can say in her favor is that, imo, she was crassly exploited and encouraged by a media person for program content. I saw the program, or yes, show where BH and GS took tv cameras into the Aruba police station to harass the clerks behind the counter, who had no decision making responsibilities.

I know you probably don't mean to equate the cases, but Watts confessed, bodies were found, and proof of a crime existed.

In Aruba there was no proof of a crime. Much less that anyone specific did "it".

 

[NuttMegg]

Did you follow the case then? She got nowhere with them initially!

She and Jug and the ten others went to confront Joran's father in his own driveway before it was determined who saw NH last. I posted these links just a few hours ago. Jug, BH's husband had gone to Aruba LE to threaten to "burn the island down" if LE didn't do what Jug and BH wanted.
And yes I followed the case as it happened, so long ago. That doesn't mean that I recall everything perfectly, but I'm sure I'll be corrected if I make an error!

 

[Mica]

Van der Sloot 'emotionally immature,' psych report says​

Lima, Peru (CNN) - Joran Van der Sloot has a low tolerance for frustration and "doesn't value the female role," according to excerpts from a psychological investigation report given to a judge by prosecutors Monday.

According to the document, van der Sloot, suspected of killing a Peruvian woman late last month, "does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him. It generates in him a challenging attitude."

The report calls him "emotionally immature," which elicits strong changes in behavior that can send him out of control.

"He reflects a certain dominance over the opposite sex. He doesn't value the female role," the document states.

Its adds, "he presents traits of an anti-social personality" and is "indifferent towards others' well being."

Despite this, the report says, "he doesn't show any psychopathological trauma that impedes him from perceiving and evaluating reality."

more…

Van der Sloot 'emotionally immature,' psych report says - CNN.com

Joran van der Sloot has a low tolerance for frustration and "doesn't value the female role," according to excerpts from a psychological investigation report given to a judge by prosecutors Monday.

www.cnn.com

 

[Mica]

Confessions of a lady killer​

[…]

Despite his comfortable upper-middle-class lifestyle, van der Sloot began to show signs of instability in his teens.

He stole money from his parents, lied compulsively and became aggressive toward his younger brothers. The family “shrank away from him, terrorized by a young man they couldn’t comprehend,” the book says. He once complained to his mother that he couldn’t stop himself from lying.

His parents allowed him to live in an apartment outside of the family home, mostly because they were terrified of him.

Van der Sloot had bouts of aggression, throwing a homeless man off a bridge, pushing a classmate through a glass display case; but what made his story unique from other angry teens was he hardly ever got in trouble.

Meanwhile, drinking and gambling had become serious issues for the teenager. Van der Sloot bragged that he could consume a case of beer and 20 to 30 shots of whiskey before getting drunk. He spent most of his nights drinking and gambling in the island’s casino.

It may have been because of his country-club good looks or his soft brown “trusting” eyes — but many people said he had a natural “believability” to him.

Still, his mother sent him to a psychologist, first believing his problems were due to early-onset puberty and then to bipolar disorder.

He approached life the way he approached the casinos: with a poker face.

Van der Sloot also had a voracious appetite for sex. He lost his virginity at 14 and maintained a steady stream of girlfriends. He and his friends (kids from a local public school) called themselves the “Pimpology Crew,” spending their nights trolling for female tourists. American girls, van der Sloot once said, were the “loosest of the lot.”

more…

Confessions of a lady killer

( )Portrait of a Monster Joran van der Sloot, a Murder in Peru, and the Natalee Holloway Mystery by Lisa Pulitzer and Cole Thompson St. Martin’s Press Joran van der Sloot sits in a rat-infested sol…

nypost.com

 

[DeDee]

<< PSBM >>

<modsnip: victim blaming>

Another cringe-worthy meme being put out is that some how only B Holloway has fought for justice for her daughter...A mother never gave up!! I'd rather be reading how "Natalee's parents miss her desperately, and have worked endlessly to find her and bring her home.". Dave Holloway searched in Aruba for many months, even searching a stinking fetid tropical garbage dump by hand. His few TV appearances were respectful and factual. Yes, I think it's sad, and not right to imply that only one of NH's parents seek justice for her.

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>

Who among us can forget seeing Dave wipe sweat from his face while searching Aruba for his child?Beth was able to get away from the States and immediately fly to Aruba; whereas, Natalee's father(s - Dave and George) had to make arrangements for their businesses first. Both of them support Beth's efforts, afaik. It was NancyG and GretaVS who set up camp on the small island that made it news every night. Beth didn't have the power to do that.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

She and Jug and the ten others went to confront Joran's father in his own driveway before it was determined who saw NH last. I posted these links just a few hours ago. Jug, BH's husband had gone to Aruba LE to threaten to "burn the island down" if LE didn't do what Jug and BH wanted.
And yes I followed the case as it happened, so long ago. That doesn't mean that I recall everything perfectly, but I'm sure I'll be corrected if I make an error!

Joran killed Natalee. He confessed it on tape to his friend, while they smoked a joint in the car.

You think he brutally killed his girl Stephany, but didn't do the same thing years earlier, when he had a beautiful but drunk teen in his car, then alone with him on a beach?

He is a brutal, punk killer and deserves to be on trial for Natalee's senseless murder. Her mother is a warrior and without her Mama Bear efforts, nothing would have been done.

 

[katydid23]

This has been the Beth Holloway show since day 1, when she and 11 others of the Alabama posse went to Joran's house to confront him and his father. Without LE, and before LE even had a chance to complete survellience. (In my links, above). Those 3 boys she constantly and publicly accused of "gang rape" and "murder" had mothers too. Both mothers had to experience the joy of being dealt with by american media, and Mrs Holloway in a manner no mother should have to endure. I posted the articles just a few hours ago. Just cuz a kid is big at 17 does not mean he does not have a kid's brain. He was singled out and attacked by Holloway <modsnip: Name calling is not allowed>

This is pretty funny, because on nearly every thread we are reminded by other posters that people are innocent until proven guilty even though already charged with a crime. Yet this does not apply to kids from foreign countries I guess, who are not suspects and have been accused by LE of no crime.


Imo

The Beth Holloway SHOW????? Her teen daughter was raped and murdered and you think she was concerned with putting on a show?

 

[SteveS]

But I don't see how they can morph this relatively puny charge into a murder or disappearing the body confession. Also I don't see any 40 yrs sentence, although it really doesn't matter, he's got so much time to serve in Peru anyway.

I agree with the first part (that there's no reason to expect a murder charge or a confession). But ...
1 I don't think this charge will prove to be "puny" at all -- it's only puny by comparison, to a murder. And the evidence here of his guilt is compellingly strong.
2 I think he could actually get MORE than 40 years, because of the enhancement provision (ie, the fact he is a convicted murderer does impact the sentencing).
3 I don't think a conviction here is meaningless at all to him (or to the rest of us, any of whom might come into contact with him eventually if he walks the streets). He kills, when he has a whim. His time remaining in Peru would allow him to get out at age 50, with perhaps 20-30 years left to live and fly off the handle and kill someone else. But tack on another 40-50 years in the US, and people everywhere are slated to be safer as a result since he will die in prison.

The only question in my mind is whether a looming 40-50 year pop added on top of what he already has could persuade him to fess up about the murder, and what happened to Natalie, in exchange for a reduction. Unfortunately, it's probably not a deal worth chasing, since it would be a deal made to get the truth, and even if you got a "confession" out of him and a statement of what he says happened to Natalie, how could you ever believe a word he said?

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting "back story" on Van Sloot, that he was basically a "bad seed". Psychiatric care ain't gonna "fix" psychopathy.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Back in 2008, Tricia made a decision that discussing Beth Holloway was allowed as she basically made herself a public figure.

Having said that, members can not trash her, call her names, or post disrespectfully about her or your post will be removed and there may be a loss of posting privileges.

 

[otto]

ADMIN NOTE:

Back in 2008, Tricia made a decision that discussing Beth Holloway was allowed as she basically made herself a public figure.

Having said that, members can not trash her, call her names, or post disrespectfully about her or your post will be removed and there may be a loss of posting privileges.

Vanity Fair covers public figures, and has been linked here for almost 20 years.

Linking ...

"Thus began a long night's search that brought the Twitty family face-to-face with the Dutch teenager they would come to believe was responsible for the disappearance of their daughter, a search that within days would captivate America, or at least that sizable part of it that watches the nightly "justice shows" on cable television. Soon Beth Twitty would become a recognizable media fixture, giving interviews or meeting with everyone from Greta Van Susteren to Diane Sawyer to Dr. Phil to Condoleezza Rice ... "

Missing White Female

The disappearance of beautiful, blonde teenager Natalee Holloway on Aruba has become America’s most tragic reality show.

www.vanityfair.com

 

[Sillybilly]

Vanity Fair covers public figures, and has been linked here for almost 20 years.

<rsbm>

Maybe I've missed your point. Tricia made the decision in 2008, not that BH became a public figure that year.

 

[SteveP]

Hope not. Alabama juror's might be saturated with Joran allegations and convict him of kidnap, rape and murder rather than the charges he's facing ... thinking that they're giving justice to Natalee's family ... <modsnip - trashing the victim's family> Even trial by Judge alone in Alabama is something no one in Joran's circumstances wants to face.

Given the federal charges, is it an option to transfer the case to a different State, where some people may be less familiar with B. Holloway's pursuit of Joran?

BBM...I don't really understand your statement that I have bolded. Surely you are not implying that an Alabama judge would be incapable of impartially rendering a fair verdict, due to either corruption or incompetency. I do not think Natalee Holloway's mother wields that kind of power. I also do not believe that the citizens of Alabama are incapable of rendering a fair verdict either, as your post seems to suggest. JMO

 

[otto]

BBM...I don't really understand your statement that I have bolded. Surely you are not implying that an Alabama judge would be incapable of impartially rendering a fair verdict, due to either corruption or incompetency. I do not think Natalee Holloway's mother wields that kind of power. I also do not believe that the citizens of Alabama are incapable of rendering a fair verdict either, as your post seems to suggest. JMO

I don't know. I live in Canada. I worry when I see an Alabama court drag a Dutchman out of Peru Hell Prison to face charges related to a sting operation where the FBI did not show up. It sounds personal and irregular.

Everything about the journalist and the mom crusading to haul Joran v.d.Sloot out of prison to get Alabama Justice ... sounds off.

Was it a police investigation that resulted in Joran v.d.Sloot arriving in Alabama? We know there's a legal loophole where prisoners in Peru can be extradited to other countries and then returned to Peru to serve consecutive sentences in other countries after release from Peru Hell Prison.

Do Alabama Judges take human rights into consideration even though the law is punitive? ... even though it violates an extradition treaty with Peru?

 

[NuttMegg]

BBM...I don't really understand your statement that I have bolded. Surely you are not implying that an Alabama judge would be incapable of impartially rendering a fair verdict, due to either corruption or incompetency. I do not think Natalee Holloway's mother wields that kind of power. I also do not believe that the citizens of Alabama are incapable of rendering a a fair verdict either. JMO

The defendant will be tried for extortion under the laws in the USA. I can easily see massive problems for the judge (and the outcome of the appeals/mistrials) if he allows the prosecution or their witnesses to slander or defame the defendant before his day in court, should that happen. Seems pretty obvious to me.
Imo

 

[NuttMegg]

I think this trial is already in trouble due to all the accusations made on TV and other media even since the sting, but unrelated to the sting. Witness impeachment, imo. On both sides.
------‐-------
"In the US, a party has the option of discrediting a witness through impeachment by cross-examining the witness about facts that reflect poorly on the witness's credibility or, in some cases, by introducing extrinsic evidence that reflects negatively on the witness's truthfulness or knowledge."
Witness impeachment - Wikipedia