ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 1

[otto]

Yes it does happen but all in the party are swept out to sea, not one. And we have evidence she was never in the water to begin with.

A motive is present, he has a bad rap sheet, and fits the profile.

Just need to find the body.

There actually doesn't seem to be evidence that she wasn't in the water. I have read that she was a strong swimmer and liked sports. Her high school profile includes sports. She may not have rented, brought, or bought snorkeling equipment, but he may have brought two sets.

As for the hair extensions, I've also heard that they have to be redone once a week, so I don't know what to think about that.

From a facebook page for Robyn Gardner: high school profile

 

[HatesSociopaths]

There actually doesn't seem to be evidence that she wasn't in the water. I have read that she was a strong swimmer and liked sports. Her high school profile includes sports. She may not have rented, brought, or bought snorkeling equipment, but he may have brought two sets.

As for the hair extensions, I've also heard that they have to be redone once a week, so I don't know what to think about that.

From a facebook page for Robyn Gardner: high school profile

I haven't seen anything about her swimming skills, just that she didn't like to go above the waist and had the hair extensions.

Either way, there should be a search for the body on all parts of that island.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

If we take things at face value, we have the posting on facebook at 2 AM saying "this sucks", then the email at 3 PM saying that she wants to work things out, they were seen at a cafe near the snorkel location in the afternoon of Aug 2 and as far as I can tell, there's a gap between around 3 and 6:25 for maybe and hour or two that is unaccounted for.

Do you have a link to Dutch law stating that a body is required in order to bring a murder charge? That doesn't sound quite right to me.

They reportedly had lunch at the cafe, why there is no exact time given I don't know. The last known time she was alive is that message to boyfriend at 3, then she is reported missing 3 hours later. We don't know what happened in those 3 hours.

Regarding Dutch law, google "no body, no crime, dutch law" - I would give you an authoritative link if I had one. It's discussed in many places on the web, though.

 

[otto]

They reportedly had lunch at the cafe, why there is no exact time given I don't know. The last known time she was alive is that message to boyfriend at 3, then she is reported missing 3 hours later. We don't know what happened in those 3 hours.

Regarding Dutch law, google "no body, no crime, dutch law" - I would give you an authoritative link if I had one. It's discussed in many places on the web, though.

When Natalie Holloway disappeared in Aruba, many people suggested that Paul van der Sloot, a prosecutor, claimed: "No body, no crime." Because of this, many internet references are available claiming that this is Dutch law. I've never seen Dutch law to that effect so I was hoping you had ... perhaps it's out there somewhere.

There are 3 hours and 23 minutes unaccounted for. His divorce lawyer said that he doesn't do anything without calculating it in advance. If this is true, then when did he decide to kill her? Perhaps it was before her last email to her boyfriend. Perhaps it was as early as when they had lunch in the cafe. I wonder what cell tower her phone pinged from ... also at Nanki Beach, but perhaps further North.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

When Natalie Holloway disappeared in Aruba, many people suggested that Paul van der Sloot, a prosecutor, claimed: "No body, no crime." Because of this, many internet references are available claiming that this is Dutch law. I've never seen Dutch law to that effect so I was hoping you had ... perhaps it's out there somewhere.

There are 3 hours and 23 minutes unaccounted for. Her lawyer says that he doesn't do anything without calculating it in advance. If this is true, then when did he decide to kill her? Perhaps it was before her last email to her boyfriend. Perhaps it was as early as when they had lunch in the cafe. I wonder what cell tower her phone pinged from ... also at Nanki Beach, but perhaps further North.

It may well be an urban myth, thanks for pointing that out.

I have wondered about the cell phone pings also.

I've gone back and forth on how far ahead he planned this. When I heard the no body, no crime thing I really began to suspect he flew her there with that in mind. However, since neither of us have found an actual source for this (and I thought I would find it here: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/160206.pdf) I do think it's just an urban myth.

My theory at this point is that he was genuinely interested in a relationship with her. The guy was 50 and he had a 35 year old blonde bombshell. It's not hard to connect him to that idea. I think he had visions of a big future with her, and was trying desperately to win her over. Granted, this guy is a nut job based on the other women who have come forward. But I think he was really hoping this was going to be a long-term relationship.

Then it went all wrong. Monday night was clearly a night of contention and strife, based on her comment "This sucks." Also, some people saw them in the hotel and they were not sitting close together. Anyway, my theory basically is that he got his hopes and dreams destroyed, realized she was going to stay with her boyfriend, and he was the guy holding the short end of the stick. They must have had a big argument that night. Perhaps he starts to plot this out that night, and then executes the plan after lunch the following day.

 

[otto]

It may well be an urban myth, thanks for pointing that out.

I have wondered about the cell phone pings also.

I've gone back and forth on how far ahead he planned this. When I heard the no body, no crime thing I really began to suspect he flew her there with that in mind. However, since neither of us have found an actual source for this (and I thought I would find it here: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/160206.pdf) I do think it's just an urban myth.

My theory at this point is that he was genuinely interested in a relationship with her. The guy was 50 and he had a 35 year old blonde bombshell. It's not hard to connect him to that idea. I think he had visions of a big future with her, and was trying desperately to win her over. Granted, this guy is a nut job based on the other women who have come forward. But I think he was really hoping this was going to be a long-term relationship.

Then it went all wrong. Monday night was clearly a night of contention and strife, based on her comment "This sucks." Also, some people saw them in the hotel and they were not sitting close together. Anyway, my theory basically is that he got his hopes and dreams destroyed, realized she was going to stay with her boyfriend, and he was the guy holding the short end of the stick. They must have had a big argument that night. Perhaps he starts to plot this out that night, and then executes the plan after lunch the following day.

I suppose it's possible that he thought she was the real deal, and upon realizing that she was in it for the "free" trip, he got really angry. His lawyer suggested that he plans things out. It's possible that he started planning it at 2 in the morning. I guess he overlooked something since he's sitting in jail.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I suppose it's possible that he thought she was the real deal, and upon realizing that she was in it for the "free" trip, he got really angry. His lawyer suggested that he plans things out. It's possible that he started planning it at 2 in the morning. I guess he overlooked something since he's sitting in jail.

It's interesting to look at it from her perspective. According to the boyfriend, she was at his house 6 nights a week, they were talking marriage, etc. According to the roommate girlfriend she had known GG for over a year, and seen him a couple times a month over that year. Maybe she just liked the free dinner and booze.

Whether or not they were having sex is in doubt. He may have just been spending money on dinners and gifts over that time, listening to her complain about her boyfriend and hoping for his chance. He thought the trip to Aruba was his moment of truth. On the island they start drinking, having a good time and then she starts flirting with some other guy. He feels like he is getting played, and he snaps.

 

[otto]

There are very few witnesses that saw the two together in Aruba, and certainly none so far about them going out with her flirting with other men. She was seeing two men: one she had dated for up to 2.5 years, another that she saw a couple of times a month for a year. She met them both on the dating site match.com. She was half living with one of the boyfriends, and the other was offering her cruises, vacations to Aruba and a solution to all future financial concerns. Maybe she didn't take either of them seriously because she met them on a dating website ... maybe she was toying with men in a way that reminds me of Jasmine Fiore. She was murdered.

Someone asked about the "Looking for Mr Goodbar" movie reference ...which I remember as a movie about a woman that was always looking for a little more excitement than the man before ... until she was ultimately murdered.

 

[otto]

It's quite possible they were in the hotel room for the most part, possibly drinking on the night between Aug 1 and Aug 2. That might be when GVG realized that Robyn was in it for the free trip. Perhaps he felt taken or used and perhaps he felt that women generally took advantage of him without ever really being there ... at the same time, he was probably unwilling to acknowedge that he's a bit freaky in relationships.

I suppose she was strangled and thrown off a cliff somewhere in Aruba. He had heard about the disappearance of N. Holloway so he probably under-estimated the long hand of the law ... a bit convinced that murder investigators in Aruba are useless. He was through customs when he was detained, so he was probably thinking he was home free.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

It's quite possible they were in the hotel room for the most part, possibly drinking on the night between Aug 1 and Aug 2. That might be when GVG realized that Robyn was in it for the free trip. Perhaps he felt taken or used and perhaps he felt that women generally took advantage of him without ever really being there ... at the same time, he was probably unwilling to acknowedge that he's a bit freaky in relationships.

I suppose she was strangled and thrown off a cliff somewhere in Aruba. He had heard about the disappearance of N. Holloway so he probably under-estimated the long hand of the law ... a bit convinced that murder investigators in Aruba are useless. He was through customs when he was detained, so he was probably thinking he was home free.

Maybe he proposed and she said no. He would have gotten her a ring so his records could be checked.

By the way, why do you think he refused a DNA test?

 

[JeannaT]

There actually doesn't seem to be evidence that she wasn't in the water. I have read that she was a strong swimmer and liked sports. Her high school profile includes sports. She may not have rented, brought, or bought snorkeling equipment, but he may have brought two sets.

As for the hair extensions, I've also heard that they have to be redone once a week, so I don't know what to think about that.

From a facebook page for Robyn Gardner: high school profile

Do you remember where you read that she was a strong swimmer? Because all I've ever heard is friends saying - unequivocally - that she would NOT have put her head underwater, period. No wavering, she would not have put her head in the water. (friends sometimes get things wrong, and in place like Aruba people who normally don't get wet might be persuaded by the beautiful water and the adventure). Do you remember where you read that?

 

[Dushi]

He took her to a restaurant in the snorkeling rental place, and they didn't rent any gear for her.

He could have taken her to the site where he says they snorkeled, but I can imagine him saying something to her like: I'm scouting areas to take photos.

True, but we bring our own gear

 

[belimom]

Do you remember where you read that she was a strong swimmer? Because all I've ever heard is friends saying - unequivocally - that she would NOT have put her head underwater, period. No wavering, she would not have put her head in the water. (friends sometimes get things wrong, and in place like Aruba people who normally don't get wet might be persuaded by the beautiful water and the adventure). Do you remember where you read that?

I haven't read "strong" swimmer but I have read this in a few places - that it was more of a concern for her hair/makeup:

Forester said Gardner has "never been a fan of snorkeling. She wasn’t that interested. She is a swimmer, but would prefer to be in a pool.”

“She’s too concerned about her hair, about her makeup -- at this point in the [day,] being in a place like Aruba, she’s probably had a couple of drinks and she’s not going to stop to go swimming in the ocean ... she’s probably getting ready to go out to dinner, [out] for the evening.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...chard-forester-gary-giordano-aruba-today-show

 

[Elphaba]

Re the picture posted pages back: that is NOT a deer mask, it is a jackalope mask... notice the bunny ears behind the horns. Jackalopes are mythical creatures that supposedly are to be feared because of their violent nature.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18277

 

[CuriousHousewife]

The term "model" is often an euphemism for someone who works in the "adult" industry, so yes, that crossed my mind.

You mean like "dancers"?

 

[CMac2]

I think we have to be careful about what we "know" and what we don't know.

For example, most of us assume she was dating her boyfriend for 2.5 years, but that's only because that's what HE claimed. Unfortunately, he's also been quoted as saying they had been dating for 6-7 months, and 8 months in yet another interview. For all we really "know", Robyn could have been seeing (in whatever capacity- platonic of otherwise) GG before she starting dating RF. While RF is busy ever-extending the seriousness and longevity of his relationship with Robyn, one thing that has remained consistent is the reports stating that Robyn met GG about a year ago.

The same thing can be said for Robyn's affinity (or lack thereof) to swimming. RF is the only person (that I'm aware of) saying Robyn wouldn't have gone snorkeling, wouldn't have gotten her hair wet, wouldn't have gone in water over her waist. I'm not saying this isn't true, but I think RF has changed his story enough times of late to warrant taking everything he says with a huge grain of salt.

While I fully understand and support the family's decision to remain quiet in the media while this investigation is ongoing, it would help tremendously if we had other sources- friends and relatives- speaking out. That way we'd have a better idea of what is really "known" about Robyn, and what RF wants us to know. I have a feeling that if/when her family chooses to speak to the media, some of what they have to say may be completely different than what RF has stated to-date.

JMO

 

[CMac2]

Not sure if this has been posted or not...

"Sandals, pink shirt found as Aruba cops search mine in hunt for missing Robyn Gardner"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44129960/ns/world_news-americas/

Some factors

lead to the conclusion she is dead... Police have recovered her passport from her belongings and don't believe she could have left the island by air with a false identity. They have also found no evidence that she left Aruba by boat.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I've been following this case but haven't posted...but, this discussion on "model" vs "dancer" vs "other" is driving me nuts !!
Looking at this womans pictures...they look like portfolio pics to me....she is absolutely gorgeous!! IMO...AND from looking at magazines/circulars/TV, there IS definitely a need for 30 something models....even 40, 50, 60, etc.
Who poses for clothing aimed at that age frame?? A teen or 20 year old with "old people" make up on? You can look at magazines for Eddie Bauer, L.L. Bean, even KMart and see WOMEN in an older age frame....I've YET to see someone who looks like a teen or 20 something in these magazines, except for where the clothes ARE for teens, etc. As people have mentioned...we're most likely not talking about runway models or Victoria Secret...but 30 something is FAR from out of the "modeling" phase. Check out the "help I've fallen and I can't get up" lady...LOL

That being said, just because she IS beautiful doesn't make her a dancer, escort, etc. IMO, what she IS just happened to be someone who was far too trusting of a potentially crazy man. We've ALL seen it before....women "trust" someone because they seem "nice" or "normal". They leave bars with them, they accept rides from them, and, unfortunately, meet them on a dating site, that "appears" reputable for all intents and purposes.
Again, IMO, in agreement with all the other posts saying this same thing...the "this sucks" post was an indication of how her trip was going. She DID perhaps think she was going on a trip with a purely platonic male friend. He, on the other hand, thought being on a romantic island on the beach, etc. would take the relationship to the next level.
I believe she went on this trip just to basically "see" if she even wanted to take THIS relationship with GG more serious, as opposed to platonic. She and her current BF had a fight/argument and even though it was "over", she might have thought this would be a nice getaway...thinking/contemplating the future. She realized she had made a BIG mistake, let GG know things weren't going in "that" direction, he gets enraged, perhaps feels emasculated, and goes off on her.

I do NOT believe he/they brought their own equipment...snorkling is, IMO, one of those things that you feel you're "supposed to do" while on an island...just like parasailing.
Seems like a good idea, but having "boat drinks" ends up seeming like a better idea.

All just MOO.

 

[concentric]

While I fully understand and support the family's decision to remain quiet in the media while this investigation is ongoing, it would help tremendously if we had other sources- friends and relatives- speaking out. That way we'd have a better idea of what is really "known" about Robyn, and what RF wants us to know. I have a feeling that if/when her family chooses to speak to the media, some of what they have to say may be completely different than what RF has stated to-date.

JMO

One of her girlfriends is scheduled to be on the Dr. Drew Show on Monday. I know there are snippets of info. derived from a girlfriend in the news articles. For example, when Robyn went to NY with one of her girlfriends instead of going on a cruise with GG, he apparently was very angry about it, sending her text messages that her girlfriend saw. (It's in one of the articles)

So, I imagine this is the same friend who will further elaborate.

 

[lonetraveler]

It may well be an urban myth, thanks for pointing that out.

I have wondered about the cell phone pings also.

I've gone back and forth on how far ahead he planned this. When I heard the no body, no crime thing I really began to suspect he flew her there with that in mind. However, since neither of us have found an actual source for this (and I thought I would find it here: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/160206.pdf) I do think it's just an urban myth.

My theory at this point is that he was genuinely interested in a relationship with her. The guy was 50 and he had a 35 year old blonde bombshell. It's not hard to connect him to that idea. I think he had visions of a big future with her, and was trying desperately to win her over. Granted, this guy is a nut job based on the other women who have come forward. But I think he was really hoping this was going to be a long-term relationship.

Then it went all wrong. Monday night was clearly a night of contention and strife, based on her comment "This sucks." Also, some people saw them in the hotel and they were not sitting close together. Anyway, my theory basically is that he got his hopes and dreams destroyed, realized she was going to stay with her boyfriend, and he was the guy holding the short end of the stick. They must have had a big argument that night. Perhaps he starts to plot this out that night, and then executes the plan after lunch the following day.

BBM: I think that this theory is very plausible. I, too, think she decided that she actually wanted to keep the relationship with her back home boyfriend and had second thoughts about the trip to Aruba and the man she was with. This guy may have shown his "real colors" to her and she saw his violent side. She may have revealed her decision to stay with her boyfriend at home and this guy felt that she led him on by coming to Aruba with him and that she used him. I think you are correct in your thinking that this guy wasn't very happy with her decision.