ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #10

[redheadedgal]

... They weren't drinking rum, they were drinking vodka. He didn't bring attention to the mistake by correcting himself. He'd been jailed for three months - The Rum Reef was, by then, branded into his mind.

sometimes while talking to me (or about me to someone else in my presence) my mom will call me my sister's name and sometimes even my father's... 30+ years of me having my own name. fwiw.

 

[neesaki]

According to this map, the only notable diving/snorkeling area near where GG allegedly took Robyn is the Baby Beach reef. But that's not where he claims they went in the water, he claims they went in at Nanki Beach, and there aren't any places that show recommended diving / snorkeling spots in that area, at least on this map. So why would he want to go snorkeling somewhere that wasn't recommended as a prime snorkeling spot, I mean, they're all around the island. :maddening: Yet he drove up and down, back and forth, between their hotel and the Rum Reef Bar and grill for two days to supposedly find a good place to snorkel, and he ended up at Nanki Beach, one of the few places there isn't one? :waitasec:

Also, I thought he was an experienced scuba diver. Scuba divers go to places like Aruba to go diving. He went all the way to Aruba and didn't go diving?
Am I remembering incorrectly about him being a scuba diver? Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.aruba.com/traveltoaruba/maps.aspx

 

[neesaki]

Has anyone even looked at the map in the link I posted? Would it be too much to ask, since he did mention "rum runner" during his interview, to consider the possibility he slipped? Robyn's somewhere, just not anywhere they've looked.

The Rum Runner, as described in the link I gave and on this photo, position 28, is in the same area as Palm Beach - where, after much arguing, we decided they were staying. That's about 30 minutes from Baby Beach.

Are there no other restaurants or snorkeling sites close to where they were staying? They weren't drinking rum, they were drinking vodka. He didn't bring attention to the mistake by correcting himself. He'd been jailed for three months - The Rum Reef was, by then, branded into his mind.

Another site that mentions it.... http://www.geographia.com/aruba/diving.htm

I see what you're saying, vl, it's interesting.... One question I have is regarding the location of the Rum Runner dive site, it appears to be on the other side of the hotel, in the opposite direction from Baby Beach, which would mean more time to get there and back. Also, I wonder how far out that dive site is from the shore, and is that a pretty isolated area? :dunno: TIA

 

[vlpate]

sometimes while talking to me (or about me to someone else in my presence) my mom will call me my sister's name and sometimes even my father's... 30+ years of me having my own name. fwiw.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty common mistake -- especially when you are used to saying two or three names all the time. My mom does the same thing.

Parapraxis (Freudian slips), occur when repressed thoughts or feelings inadvertently ''pop out'' in speech.

I'm not saying he took her to the sunken cruise ship, that would be ridiculous, but I think there could be a connection in his mind to the area. They were gone two hours and no one at baby beach saw them get out of the car and go into the water, not in that area of the island. Someone did see them get into the car and drive off. Where did they go for two hours? Was GG familiar with the Palm Beach area of the Island? Did he stay at the Palm Beach Marriott when he'd visited before? He carefully planned so many things. The insurance and making sure they were on video at the Rum Reef. Surely we don't believe he picked this restaurant, regardless of its popularity, out of the air. He needed cameras...do all of the restaurants have cameras? Why at the furthest point of the island?

Where's the snorkeling gear? Where's Robyn's dress? Where are the panties she was wearing? The bra? Her earrings, sunglasses....jewelry. Did Robyn wear contacts?

We can only talk about the side, front, or back of the restaurant for so long - the video of his lax attitude and movement, but there's nothing there that is going to lead us to where else he may have gone that day - where else he may have gotten in an argument with Robyn.

There's not a single witness to two hours of Robyn and GG running in and out of the water, grabbing a towel only to go back in, swim out, and drown while poor GG struggles back to shore in his heavy shoes.

Why didn't GG park in front of the steps where he first entered the restaurant on the video? Why the side of the restaurant where there are no cameras? He likely knew just where that spot was.

Even LE talked about how hard it was to identify him on videos because he was always changing his toupees....why? All tolled - it's doubtful Robyn is anywhere near the Rum Reef or Baby Beach.

 

[vlpate]

I see what you're saying, vl, it's interesting.... One question I have is regarding the location of the Rum Runner dive site, it appears to be on the other side of the hotel, in the opposite direction from Baby Beach, which would mean more time to get there and back. Also, I wonder how far out that dive site is from the shore, and is that a pretty isolated area? :dunno: TIA

35 to 40 minutes each way.

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, I think that's a pretty common mistake -- especially when you are used to saying two or three names all the time. My mom does the same thing.

Parapraxis (Freudian slips), occur when repressed thoughts or feelings inadvertently ''pop out'' in speech.

I'm not saying he took her to the sunken cruise ship, that would be ridiculous, but I think there could be a connection in his mind to the area. They were gone two hours and no one at baby beach saw them get out of the car and go into the water, not in that area of the island. Someone did see them get into the car and drive off. Where did they go for two hours? Was GG familiar with the Palm Beach area of the Island? Did he stay at the Palm Beach Marriott when he'd visited before? He carefully planned so many things. The insurance and making sure they were on video at the Rum Reef. Surely we don't believe he picked this restaurant, regardless of its popularity, out of the air. He needed cameras...do all of the restaurants have cameras? Why at the furthest point of the island?

Where's the snorkeling gear? Where's Robyn's dress? Where are the panties she was wearing? The bra? Her earrings, sunglasses....jewelry. Did Robyn wear contacts?

We can only talk about the side, front, or back of the restaurant for so long - the video of his lax attitude and movement, but there's nothing there that is going to lead us to where else he may have gone that day - where else he may have gotten in an argument with Robyn.

There's not a single witness to two hours of Robyn and GG running in and out of the water, grabbing a towel only to go back in, swim out, and drown while poor GG struggles back to shore in his heavy shoes.

Why didn't GG park in front of the steps where he first entered the restaurant on the video? Why the side of the restaurant where there are no cameras? He likely knew just where that spot was.

Even LE talked about how hard it was to identify him on videos because he was always changing his toupees....why? All tolled - it's doubtful Robyn is anywhere near the Rum Reef or Baby Beach.

Witnesses said they walked along the jetty and then left about 4:30 and we know he was back by 6pm, or sooner, because he would have had to put down the towels, get his feet wet and then run down to the restaurant. So that is approximately only 1 1/2 hours from the time they were last seen. Driving back to Palm Beach at that hour of the day would have taken some time. Traffic in San Nicholas is not that bad but Oranjestad is different, lots of traffic with people leaving work, etc. Plus there are just too many people up in Palm Beach. It's like a small city, people out walking, going to dinner, workers out on the beach putting equipment away for the evening. He would have wanted an area where there were no people which, at that time of day, would be the eastern coastline. Most tourist who were in that area would have headed back to the hotels around 4pm.

I imagine he parked the car away from the front entrance of the restaurant so people could not see what he was doing. That would make sense if your line of thinking is that he was up to no good.

Also, and I know it has not been confirmed as fact, but I still think it is possible that if the story about the couple seeing a man beating on a woman at the pet cemetary were true it would make sense that this is area where he put her into the water. The coastal area is made up of mostly high cliffs and small little beach areas that are cut into the rocks at remote spots. There is no long beach where her body could have easily washed ashore. But that is just my theory based on the fact that they found no body in a relatively calm sea and he supposedly went for help right away. They had no problem finding the other person who drowned there recently. So that is highly suspicious.

There are just too many variables for his story to be correct. As they say, "if it walks like a duck....." jmo

 

[Saracen]

BBM. That's exactly right.

Oh, he was quite adamant in the interview that he absolutely did not take Robyn to an isolated area, that Baby Beach was right there, that the dive shop was just a 100 yards away, of course he fails to mention it was closed and vacated at that time. Quite convenient for his purposes I'd say.

That is not my quote.I am of course referring to post 217

 

[neesaki]

That is not my quote.I am of course referring to post 217

You're right. That quote should say by Katydid.

Sorry about that Saracen. I clicked on the "quote" button and that's how it came out and I don't know how to fix it. :dunno:

 

[LambChop]

You're right. That quote should say by Katydid.

Sorry about that Saracen. I clicked on the "quote" button and that's how it came out and I don't know how to fix it. :dunno:

Solar flares......causing all kinds of disruptions. My cell phone kept lighting up yesterday on it's own. lol

 

[Saracen]

You're right. That quote should say by Katydid.

Sorry about that Saracen. I clicked on the "quote" button and that's how it came out and I don't know how to fix it. :dunno:

No problem, I have not been at this long, but i am gradually getting into it..:giggle:

 

[LambChop]

No problem, I have not been at this long, but i am gradually getting into it..:giggle:

Yep. Every once in awhile the quotes and posts seem to take on a life of their own. lol But usually nothing serious. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Its still misquoting posts

Look above LOL

 

[concentric]

Why did GG choose that particular area to go "snorkeling" at that particular time of day? Did he know that the restaurant and the dive shop would both be closed? Did he suspect that Baby Beach would most likely be deserted that late in the day as well? My guess would be yes, as he would have discovered that the day before when he did his trial run. jmo

In this video, retired FBI profiler Brad Garrett states that GG is walking around like he doesn't really care, and is not acting like a "normal person" who would be very excited, desperately beating on doors trying to find someone.

But then, perhaps it would be difficult to appear excited or desperate to find help if one didn't really want to get help, especially if one had knowledge that the victim was already dead at their own hands. jmo

---------
Yes.

I am looking at this from the standpoint of an actor or director. And, no doubt, that in doing the "reinactment" they arrived at the same conclusion.

If this was a scene in a movie where the actor was to accurately portray a character desperately trying to get help for his friend who was missing in the water, drowning:

let's just say that the director would be shouting cut so many times it would drive him/her crazy. The director might also be having several conversations with the actor about making it: believable, or you're out, and bring in the replacement.

Now, if that actor was portraying a character who was just going through the motions to routinely cover all of the bases, then those seemingly nonchalant actions and attitude (unconcerned, indifferent) would be in character.

 

[vlpate]

Witnesses said they walked along the jetty and then left about 4:30 and we know he was back by 6pm, or sooner, because he would have had to put down the towels, get his feet wet and then run down to the restaurant. So that is approximately only 1 1/2 hours from the time they were last seen. Driving back to Palm Beach at that hour of the day would have taken some time. Traffic in San Nicholas is not that bad but Oranjestad is different, lots of traffic with people leaving work, etc. Plus there are just too many people up in Palm Beach. It's like a small city, people out walking, going to dinner, workers out on the beach putting equipment away for the evening. He would have wanted an area where there were no people which, at that time of day, would be the eastern coastline. Most tourist who were in that area would have headed back to the hotels around 4pm.

I imagine he parked the car away from the front entrance of the restaurant so people could not see what he was doing. That would make sense if your line of thinking is that he was up to no good.

Also, and I know it has not been confirmed as fact, but I still think it is possible that if the story about the couple seeing a man beating on a woman at the pet cemetary were true it would make sense that this is area where he put her into the water. The coastal area is made up of mostly high cliffs and small little beach areas that are cut into the rocks at remote spots. There is no long beach where her body could have easily washed ashore. But that is just my theory based on the fact that they found no body in a relatively calm sea and he supposedly went for help right away. They had no problem finding the other person who drowned there recently. So that is highly suspicious.

There are just too many variables for his story to be correct. As they say, "if it walks like a duck....." jmo

Except for the fact they wouldn't have gone through Oranjestad, they would have gone all the way around on route 4 - which looks to be a mostly residential drive. If he had already made a plan, and if he drugged her while at the restaurant, it wouldn't have taken more than an hour to get to Palm Beach, or close to Palm Beach, and back.

One of the searches was around the correctional facility where GG was being confined - anyone know why? It was supposedly based on information they received from GG and witnesses.

 

[vlpate]

I was looking at Baby Beach on Google Earth and this image was in the water - so freaky. I took a screen shot and circled the face on Paint, otherwise, I did nothing to the image...

 

[LambChop]

I was looking at Baby Beach on Google Earth and this image was in the water - so freaky. I took a screen shot and circled the face on Paint, otherwise, I did nothing to the image...

Looks as if it's a rock. They have a lot of rocks in the water. jmo

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Witnesses said they walked along the jetty and then left about 4:30 and we know he was back by 6pm, or sooner, because he would have had to put down the towels, get his feet wet and then run down to the restaurant. So that is approximately only 1 1/2 hours from the time they were last seen. Driving back to Palm Beach at that hour of the day would have taken some time. Traffic in San Nicholas is not that bad but Oranjestad is different, lots of traffic with people leaving work, etc. Plus there are just too many people up in Palm Beach. It's like a small city, people out walking, going to dinner, workers out on the beach putting equipment away for the evening. He would have wanted an area where there were no people which, at that time of day, would be the eastern coastline. Most tourist who were in that area would have headed back to the hotels around 4pm.

I imagine he parked the car away from the front entrance of the restaurant so people could not see what he was doing. That would make sense if your line of thinking is that he was up to no good.

Also, and I know it has not been confirmed as fact, but I still think it is possible that if the story about the couple seeing a man beating on a woman at the pet cemetary were true it would make sense that this is area where he put her into the water. The coastal area is made up of mostly high cliffs and small little beach areas that are cut into the rocks at remote spots. There is no long beach where her body could have easily washed ashore. But that is just my theory based on the fact that they found no body in a relatively calm sea and he supposedly went for help right away. They had no problem finding the other person who drowned there recently. So that is highly suspicious.

There are just too many variables for his story to be correct. As they say, "if it walks like a duck....." jmo

LC,

Not only has the "car beating" not been confirmed , it has been dismissed as "rumor". Lets not start bringing this back into the conversation, it only confuses matters. Agreed??

....and perhaps the only reason they did not find Robyn's body was because they waited until the next day for search by helicopters, and boats. The other women went down where her husband could identify the exact spot and divers were in the water immediately. We will nrver know the exact spot for Robyn.:twocents:

 

[LambChop]

Except for the fact they wouldn't have gone through Oranjestad, they would have gone all the way around on route 4 - which looks to be a mostly residential drive. If he had already made a plan, and if he drugged her while at the restaurant, it wouldn't have taken more than an hour to get to Palm Beach, or close to Palm Beach, and back.

One of the searches was around the correctional facility where GG was being confined - anyone know why? It was supposedly based on information they received from GG and witnesses.

I've driven both. Route 1 is the fastest because it is all highway and you travel at highway speeds until you get into the towns and there are only a few traffic lights along the way. Route 4 has more lights and also you can't travel that fast with the residential neighborhoods. I had to detour onto 4 when I was headed to the airport once and it took twice as long to get there as Route 1. Also they left the restaurant at 4:12pm and from the witnesses accounts they were there until at least 4:30pm before they left. He was at the restaurant asking for help at 6:15pm so he really only had an hour and a half real time after he left to get back and put the towels down, throw her dress on the rocks, get his feet wet and then run for help.

Wherever he ended up it was probably a half hour drive to, 15 minutes at the site and another half hour back and a few more at Baby Beach. He would have never made it to Palm Beach and it is so populated there with hotels and people everywhere so highly doubtful he would have taken her there. He would have been noticed.

It would be interesting to see if his computer shows searches for remote spots on the island. Not that this would prove anything but it would be of interest. jmo

 

[LambChop]

LC,

Not only has the "car beating" not been confirmed , it has been dismissed as "rumor". Lets not start bringing this back into the conversation, it only confuses matters. Agreed??

....and perhaps the only reason they did not find Robyn's body was because they waited until the next day for search by helicopters, and boats. The other women went down where her husband could identify the exact spot and divers were in the water immediately. We will nrver know the exact spot for Robyn.:twocents:

The helicopters fly along the coast many, many times during the day. I think it is highly unlikely they did not look the first night and there are photos of GG standing on the beach with LE pointing to where they were supposedly snorkeling. You can see from the satellite that water is very clear. One picture also showed divers in the water. Until it became too dark to see I would think they would search. I don't recall seeing a report that they did not search that evening.

I believe I stated that it was not confirmed by LE. But the fact remains they did bring in the dogs right after that "rumor" to search the very spot where this took place. And I'm just throwing out a theory here because there is no proof but how did NE get the information about the pet cemetary. It's not common tourist knowledge and I certainly did not know about it all the times I had been down there. So, yes, it is rumor and should be treated as such.

It would be nice if they had Dr. Lee look at the blood splatter on that towel. jmo

 

[vlpate]

I've driven both. Route 1 is the fastest because it is all highway and you travel at highway speeds until you get into the towns and there are only a few traffic lights along the way. Route 4 has more lights and also you can't travel that fast with the residential neighborhoods. I had to detour onto 4 when I was headed to the airport once and it took twice as long to get there as Route 1. Also they left the restaurant at 4:12pm and from the witnesses accounts they were there until at least 4:30pm before they left. He was at the restaurant asking for help at 6:15pm so he really only had an hour and a half real time after he left to get back and put the towels down, throw her dress on the rocks, get his feet wet and then run for help.

Wherever he ended up it was probably a half hour drive to, 15 minutes at the site and another half hour back and a few more at Baby Beach. He would have never made it to Palm Beach and it is so populated there with hotels and people everywhere so highly doubtful he would have taken her there. He would have been noticed.

It would be interesting to see if his computer shows searches for remote spots on the island. Not that this would prove anything but it would be of interest. jmo

Throw her dress on the rocks? They found her dress on the rocks? I didn't realize they found her dress.

I guess the talk of the front, the back, the side of rum reef and whether or not his pants were wet, has exhausted me so I started watching his interviews again....trying to find clues as to where he may have taken her.

His heading back to Palm Beach, or to an area between there and Baby Beach is as feasible, if not more, than human traffickers taking her.

The witnesses who said they saw him at 4:30 - I wonder, did they look at their watch because that moment was going to be important? How close to them were they? Could they have had the day mixed up with the day before? According to LE, there were no credible or helpful witness statements. The re-enactment didn't include a walk on the levy.

Knowing the geography of the beach as a tourist, and knowing back roads and shortcuts to remote areas are two different things. I don't doubt Giordano, if this was planned, had scoped the island out - probably on trips and on google earth.

Heck, maybe he had someone helping him that he paid off with a promise of more once the insurance money came in. I realize that's a stretch, but it happens all the time.