ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #10

[Dushi]

It's clear to me that LC is simply saying that GG and Robyn went to the Rum Reef and the Baby Beach area two days in a row. That's something we've all known since the beginning.

Wherever CJ got her information, we have no idea if it is credible or truthful. That she says it's a "lie" is at least an exaggeration which is totally different than a mix up in the date, so it leads me to question her own veracity.

CJ returned home to MD acting as though she had all the answers by her actions, because she immediately announced that she was donating all of Robyn's belongings to a battered women's shelter :clap: as though she had had some sort of psychic epiphany while she was in Aruba, and magically had discovered all the answers. She got what she wanted out of her moment of fame on national television with her psychic friends, then basically declared Robyn dead. All I can say, is that her psychics must be really good, :lol:, so psychics, where is Robyn?

And is this really necessary? Isn't that like screaming? Just askin'.

I thought CAPS was screaming, but what do I know

Why are you so willing to find fault with CJ? She is the only friend that went to Aruba to TRY and find information

Why is it acceptable that she is looking for fame, but can't be considered when discussing the fisherman?

I listened to a video yesterday that stated CJ had a meeting with LE while in Aruba
Perhaps she got her information from LE

And yes, I will find and post the link

 

[Dushi]

Witness statements are considered evidence. The fact that there were more than one documented statement that GG left is strong evidence that he lied about staying in that location to snorkel. You have to consider who has more to gain by giving a false statement. Certainly not the witnesses. Why would they all want to risk arrest for giving a false statement and lying to LE. jmo

So, evidence was leaked to the media

 

[Dushi]

http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/gardner-s-friend-looks-for-body-in-aruba/17yv2dbz5

This is the video that states CJ met with Aruban police for several hours

 

[LambChop]

So, evidence was leaked to the media

No, that information was given to GMA by the Aruban authorities as they claimed to have seen all the witness statements claiming he and RG got into the car and left the area. Either GG left the area as the witnesses claimed or he stayed. Who has the most to gain here. Certainly not the witnesses. It's a small country, as you know, and I'm sure at that end of the island the police are very aware of which witness is reliable and which one is not. To discount all those witnesses is like "throwing the baby out with the bath water."

As for the dive shop owner if he was still there at the shop he heard it first hand from GG when LE arrived. I'm sure it caused quite a stir and would not have gone unnoticed by this person. There are too many witnesses to discount what they are all saying. Plus if they are telling the truth, and there is nothing to believe they are not, all their stories would be consistently the same and it appears they are. They all agree that RG and GG got into the car and left and they did not get into the water. The fact there is no body backs up their statements.

I highly doubt the Arubans told CJ anything other than what they released to the public. It was still an ongoing investigation and remains so today. jmo

 

[LambChop]

http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/gardner-s-friend-looks-for-body-in-aruba/17yv2dbz5

This is the video that states CJ met with Aruban police for several hours

This would not play for me but you have to wonder what she expects them to do. jmo

 

[Dushi]

No, that information was given to GMA by the Aruban authorities as they claimed to have seen all the witness statements claiming he and RG got into the car and left the area. Either GG left the area as the witnesses claimed or he stayed. Who has the most to gain here. Certainly not the witnesses. It's a small country, as you know, and I'm sure at that end of the island the police are very aware of which witness is reliable and which one is not. To discount all those witnesses is like "throwing the baby out with the bath water."

As for the dive shop owner if he was still there at the shop he heard it first hand from GG when LE arrived. I'm sure it caused quite a stir and would not have gone unnoticed by this person. There are too many witnesses to discount what they are all saying. Plus if they are telling the truth, and there is nothing to believe they are not, all their stories would be consistently the same and it appears they are. They all agree that RG and GG got into the car and left and they did not get into the water. The fact there is no body backs up their statements.

I highly doubt the Arubans told CJ anything other than what they released to the public. It was still an ongoing investigation and remains so today. jmo

I misunderstood

You are saying that Aruban authorities gave evidence to the media

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

And is this really necessary? Isn't that like screaming? Just askin'.

Snipped for space:


Hi Neesaki,

Answering questions posed to you and providing links, if necessary, is something you are very good at. Respectfully I add that is why your comments are always clear, weather we agree or not.

If I may say---!!!!!!!!!!!!----is something I am very much inclined to do also in some instances, at least for me it is like "SCREAMING". What else can one do when you have repeatedly asked a post to explain it's "references" for answers it hase provided. Repeating one's belief as an answer, only makes one continuously have to respond with the question "again", and again, and again, until the person wanting the answer Gives Up or is provided the link
they originally asked for---usually not by the post it was directed to, but someone like you, kind enough to see the futility of situation. LOL!!

I sincerely hope this is allowed to be posted, since it is not "attacking" the poster, rather the 'Post" (which I might add is always another way "a" post can end the questioning. Just something to "Please" think about.:twocents:

 

[LambChop]

I misunderstood

You are saying that Aruban authorities gave evidence to the media

GMA claims LE showed them the witness statements. This is information that would have been readily available to the public because they were witnesses. It's not as if it were some piece of evidence they found at the scene that they did not want to disclose. They released information that was already known by the general population of Arubans long after the statements had been taken. Why wouldn't they do that even just to disspell misinformation by the American press? Witnesses talk to friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. It was not confidential material.

We all listened to T. Stein talk about the camera, pictures, GG's inconsistencies. That was all examined as evidence, too, so they decide what can be released and what should be held confidential. jmo

 

[Dushi]

ABC News reviewed witness statements given to Aruban investigators by Gardner's family and friends. A female friend of Gardner told investigators that Giordano, 50, and Gardner, 35, had previously planned a vacation together but Gardner backed out because of Giordano's "scary behavior."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/aruba-judge-orders-robyn-gardner-suspect-stay-jail/story?id=14418807


ABC has seen statements by family and friends

 

[LambChop]

ABC News reviewed witness statements given to Aruban investigators by Gardner's family and friends. A female friend of Gardner told investigators that Giordano, 50, and Gardner, 35, had previously planned a vacation together but Gardner backed out because of Giordano's "scary behavior."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/aruba-judge-orders-robyn-gardner-suspect-stay-jail/story?id=14418807


ABC has seen statements by family and friends

Yes, I believe they said they saw all of the witness statements. Many of the statements were done in front of others so they are not confidential. Any of these people could have come forward and given a statement to the press on their own. Nothing stopping them from doing that so their statements are not considered confidential to LE's investigation but obviously critical in giving a picture of who they are dealing with. jmo

 

[neesaki]

I thought CAPS was screaming, but what do I know

Why are you so willing to find fault with CJ? She is the only friend that went to Aruba to TRY and find information

Why is it acceptable that she is looking for fame, but can't be considered when discussing the fisherman?

I listened to a video yesterday that stated CJ had a meeting with LE while in Aruba
Perhaps she got her information from LE

And yes, I will find and post the link

Ok, so you weren't screaming, what do I know :dunno:.

Actually, I can't say what CJ's motivation was for going to Aruba, and she is the only one that has declared Robyn dead without any evidence.

As far as Aruba LE, I am becoming more and more skeptical of them and their handling of this investigation at this point , so I personally can't say I can trust what they may have told CJ or anyone.

 

[neesaki]

Snipped for space:


Hi Neesaki,

Answering questions posed to you and providing links, if necessary, is something you are very good at. Respectfully I add that is why your comments are always clear, weather we agree or not.

If I may say---!!!!!!!!!!!!----is something I am very much inclined to do also in some instances, at least for me it is like "SCREAMING". What else can one do when you have repeatedly asked a post to explain it's "references" for answers it hase provided. Repeating one's belief as an answer, only makes one continuously have to respond with the question "again", and again, and again, until the person wanting the answer Gives Up or is provided the link
they originally asked for---usually not by the post it was directed to, but someone like you, kind enough to see the futility of situation. LOL!!

I sincerely hope this is allowed to be posted, since it is not "attacking" the poster, rather the 'Post" (which I might add is always another way "a" post can end the questioning. Just something to "Please" think about.:twocents:

Ok, so now it is screaming, lol.

I didn't see where anyone was repeatedly asking for a link or reference. LC simply commented on what CJ posted on FB.

Also, I don't see any attacking going on, but do find part of your post a little unclear, so maybe I'm missing something, wouldn't be the first time, lol. Even if it is an attack, hey, I'm tough, I can take it.

 

[LambChop]

Ok, so you weren't screaming, what do I know :dunno:.

Actually, I can't say what CJ's motivation was for going to Aruba, and she is the only one that has declared Robyn dead without any evidence.

As far as Aruba LE, I am becoming more and more skeptical of them and their handling of this investigation at this point , so I personally can't say I can trust what they may have told CJ or anyone.

I'm not sure what there is to handle. GG appears to have lied about going into the water in that location. They never had to hold GG if they felt the witnesses statements were false. They could have just let him go and it would have been considered a drowning where the body was not recovered. It certainly would have been easier for them to do that than to detain him and question him and investigate further with all the negative feedback they have been getting. I'm sure they have to go with what they have and it obviously was not enough to keep him there. Does not change the fact that RG is missing and no body/remains were ever recovered which makes RG a statistic in the very low percentage of bodies never recovered from a drowning within sight of a beach. jmo

 

[neesaki]

I'm not sure what there is to handle. GG appears to have lied about going into the water in that location. They never had to hold GG if they felt the witnesses statements were false. They could have just let him go and it would have been considered a drowning where the body was not recovered. It certainly would have been easier for them to do that than to detain him and question him and investigate further with all the negative feedback they have been getting. I'm sure they have to go with what they have and it obviously was not enough to keep him there. Does not change the fact that RG is missing and no body/remains were ever recovered which makes RG a statistic in the very low percentage of bodies never recovered from a drowning within sight of a beach. jmo

The long delay in bringing in search dogs I have always had a problem with. As well as their lackadaisical approach in handling the forensic evaluation of the electronics. This should have been done at the very beginning instead of waiting several months.

Another is their territorial, closed door policy to allowing the FBI to be actively involved in the investigation in Aruba, rather than just be on the periphery, when it could have been nothing but beneficial to allow them to assist.

Also, ALE's not providing a few morsels of valid information and updates on the case to the public is another fault I see with how they have handled things. No one expects an agency to give away critical information that may impede or compromise the case, yet part of any LE's responsibility is also, in the U.S. or elsewhere, answering to the public and it's citizens. Even in the case of Americans or foreigners in general who go to their island and support their tourist industry. It's been three months and they haven't offered a word on the status of the case. Are they even doing anything at all or have they just dropped the ball, it's anyone's guess.

I just keep thinking of the Natalee Holloway case and how ALE obstructed that investigation and allowed evidence to be destroyed and for some time didn't even look for Natalee. Her father had to go and do his own searches.
And that case has never been solved and probably never will be.

It's very sad to say, but this is starting to look like a repeat to me.

 

[Dushi]

Any word on the Grand Jury?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Ok, so now it is screaming, lol.

I didn't see where anyone was repeatedly asking for a link or reference. LC simply commented on what CJ posted on FB.

Also, I don't see any attacking going on, but do find part of your post a little unclear, so maybe I'm missing something, wouldn't be the first time, lol. Even if it is an attack, hey, I'm tough, I can take it.

Neesaki,
I am just saying , I am guilty of the "!!!!!!!" thingy, and for Me it is like screaming ....a frustrating scream. Not speaking for anyone but myself.
It is like saying to the poster " You are missing the POintlease: Yikes, what will it take"

I don't see "attacking" going on either, but have had responses to some of my comments suggesting that is exactly what I am doing.
......and speaking for myself, I would never "attack" or use the "!!!!!!" for your posts because "you get it".

You have never seen posts here that repeat "points" they are trying to make , but never give an MSM reference to back up those points?? LOL well I know I am one of them, but then I admit that I don't have the link and ask for help with that.

 

[LambChop]

The long delay in bringing in search dogs I have always had a problem with. As well as their lackadaisical approach in handling the forensic evaluation of the electronics. This should have been done at the very beginning instead of waiting several months.

Another is their territorial, closed door policy to allowing the FBI to be actively involved in the investigation in Aruba, rather than just be on the periphery, when it could have been nothing but beneficial to allow them to assist.

Also, ALE's not providing a few morsels of valid information and updates on the case to the public is another fault I see with how they have handled things. No one expects an agency to give away critical information that may impede or compromise the case, yet part of any LE's responsibility is also, in the U.S. or elsewhere, answering to the public and it's citizens. Even in the case of Americans or foreigners in general who go to their island and support their tourist industry. It's been three months and they haven't offered a word on the status of the case. Are they even doing anything at all or have they just dropped the ball, it's anyone's guess.

I just keep thinking of the Natalee Holloway case and how ALE obstructed that investigation and allowed evidence to be destroyed and for some time didn't even look for Natalee. Her father had to go and do his own searches.
And that case has never been solved and probably never will be.

It's very sad to say, but this is starting to look like a repeat to me.

That is one way to look at it. Another way is this is their country they have their rules and regulations and standards on how they proceed in an investigation which I don't see as too much different than what we do in the US. Their problem is water. It erases all evidence. So we blame LE when it is the suspect who has done a good job of erasing, hiding and concealing the evidence that would surely convict him. Or it doesn't exist.

Until they have evidence that she is dead they can't go any further unless they can prove he planned to do this. The FBI had his home computer and retrieved it right away. Whatever else they took into custody it does not matter if it sat in Aruba or in Holland for a couple of months. These things take time and cost money so why look at the computer 10 times when once will do the trick. Sometimes it takes time to gather information for them to do a search. It's not uncommon in the US to do so also. Police have their procedures and they do them according to whatever timeline is appropriate for what they are trying to find.

A Grand Jury sits for up to two years. Special Grand Juries can sit up to 36 months. They meet, I believe, once a month to go over evidence in pending cases and the identities of the jurors are always kept secret. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Neesaki,
I am just saying , I am guilty of the "!!!!!!!" thingy, and for Me it is like screaming ....a frustrating scream. Not speaking for anyone but myself.
It is like saying to the poster " You are missing the POintlease: Yikes, what will it take"

I don't see "attacking" going on either, but have had responses to some of my comments suggesting that is exactly what I am doing.
......and speaking for myself, I would never "attack" or use the "!!!!!!" for your posts because "you get it".

You have never seen posts here that repeat "points" they are trying to make , but never give an MSM reference to back up those points?? LOL well I know I am one of them, but then I admit that I don't have the link and ask for help with that.

I think we are all trying to get to the truth and it is frustrating because there is so little proof. jmo

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Well the rules state MSM only. And yes there are times they get information incorrect but this has been stated by various articles and GMA about the witnesses. I don't think the Aruban authorities would have given GMA statements that they had not already verified. Witnesses statements are very important when they are consistent and it apppears from numerous reports that they are very consistent and do not agree with what GG has stated. It is possible there was another "fisherman" who had the information wrong, we just don't know that. We only know that 3 fishermen and a dive shop owner did have consistent info about them leaving. Those are documented.

Other than his lying and inconsistencies when he would retell his story it appears all they had were the witnesses which was probably one of the reasons for holding for that length of time. It certainly goes along with them not finding her body in that location,nor any signs of her snorkel equipment, her extensions to her hair (I would think that glue would have desolved pretty quickly in that water) jmo

Since we keep going back to those "witness statements", and this post indicates there a numerous reports with regards to these statements, could you post the numerous , documented reports , so we will all be on the same page.

I still am confused as to how many "fisherman " witness statements there are.
3--with Silva, 2 without Silva, and the above post suggests a 4th?Maybe there is only ONE, with 3 different statements??

.....and I don't think I know where the info regarding her snorkel equipment and extensions came from. I find her "hair extensions" humorous (sorry), since they are having problems finding her entire body---why would they even think hair extensions would be floating around.

Let's just put these witness statements to rest, it would be good to have those reports so we were all working with the same number of witnesses.TIA

 

[LambChop]

Since we keep going back to those "witness statements", and this post indicates there a numerous reports with regards to these statements, could you post the numerous , documented reports , so we will all be on the same page.

I still am confused as to how many "fisherman " witness statements there are.
3--with Silva, 2 without Silva, and the above post suggests a 4th?Maybe there is only ONE, with 3 different statements??

.....and I don't think I know where the info regarding her snorkel equipment and extensions came from. I find her "hair extensions" humorous (sorry), since they are having problems finding her entire body---why would they even think hair extensions would be floating around.

Let's just put these witness statements to rest, it would be good to have those reports so we were all working with the same number of witnesses.TIA

The hair extensions were my opinion. The snorkel gear GG claims she was wearing but there is no proof other than is statement.

We have gone over the witnesses time and time again. The links have also been posted numerous times.

Posted under facts/rumors:

Witnesses: Fishermen:

Second video has information on this link.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=14361836

The latest witness account and the photographs of Gardner and Giordano together emerged just one day after a witness came forward to dispute Giordano's account of what happened the day Gardner disappeared.

The witness says he was fishing on a beach on that day and he saw the two take a walk along the reef around 4 p.m., but they never went in the water.

A short time later, the couple drove away and he never saw either of them again, the witness says.

Witnesses when GG went for help and Mr. Silva's statement:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/aruba-murde...ry?id=14403446

1. A witness who gave LE an account that night to dispute what happened.
2. Following day a fisherman on the beach gave an account of them leaving.
3. Mr. Silva gave an account of them leaving.
4. The fisherman out on the boat gave an account of the leaving.

It's not clear that the first account LE received was a fisherman or just a witness. So it is possible the dive shop owner was the first witness but we do not know that only that he stated he saw them.

More than one is all they needed to verify that GG was lying. I think LE has enough proof GG lied. jmo