ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 7

[otto]

That's right. But Robyn would I would think or her server would have never taken a picture of her.

I don't think the dye job is what attracted attention to Robyn. I suspect that what caught people's attention started below the neck ... like the tattoos.

 

[otto]

I agree... if she made up her mind to drink and take sleeping pills
However we don't know if it was her decision or for that matter, if she did it at all
We only have GGs word for it

True ... it's irrelevant whether she took a sleeping pill or had vodka. No one but Robyn is responsible for those decisions.

 

[Dushi]

That's a good point ... but in the mean time we discovered that he bought a bottle of vodka, that Robyn had a couple of drinks earlier in the day (almost as soon as she woke up IIRC) and he was ducking out to the car with the blue cups. Also, as posted upthread, even authorities thought he was drunk. I see no good reason for GG to get any insurance money.

All of the information about Robyns drinking early in the day came from GG
If they ordered nothing at the bar, nobody would have known what or if she drank that day,
GG told the story
He can't recant it now

 

[otto]

LC, you are mixing up various legal concepts of "negligence." The negligence in a charge of Negligent Homicide (if Aruba even has such a charge) is not the same as "negligence" in a civil case, such as suing the bar that provided alcohol to a drunk driver.

I don't know enough about Aruban law to say what, if anything, might apply here

We can all speculate ... but maybe a lawyer will drop by and answer the legal questions that have come up.

Personally, I don't think Baez has any moral and ethical standards, regardless of what is expected of lawyers.

 

[Dushi]

True ... it's irrelevant whether she took a sleeping pill or had vodka. No one but Robyn is responsible for those decisions.

Yes

If she did
She isn't here to tell her side of the story
We only have garys

 

[Dushi]

Maybe a lawyer will drop by and answer some of the legal questions.

Where is Just a Guy??

 

[vlpate]

True ... it's irrelevant whether she took a sleeping pill or had vodka. No one but Robyn is responsible for those decisions.

Yes, she is responsible for her decision to drink the drinks given to her....but it was GG's MORAL responsibility not to take advantage of her or take her into the ocean drunk....no matter where the jurisdiction.

 

[otto]

Yes, she is responsible for her decision to drink the drinks given to her....but it was GG's MORAL responsibility not to take advantage of her or take her into the ocean drunk....no matter where the jurisdiction.

Unless he deliberately drowned her, he is not responsible for her actions.

Would she be responsible for his actions if she were driving and he disappeared beneath the surf?

 

[LambChop]

I think it is odd that Gary is telling the server/LE RG took a sleeping pill in the middle of the day. Who would do that knowing you are going to snorkel? I think he told them so when her body returned to shore and they did blood tests they would fine the drug in her system and he would have already given them an explanation. Seems a little strange to tell people someone took a sleeping pill when it's only 4pm in the afternoon.

It's also strange to here him say he bought insurance for the trip just in case he "disappeared". Who would say that? Wouldn't you say in case I died, or something happened to me. Why would you be so specific??? jmo

 

[vlpate]

I know...I was grabbing at straws. I just don't think it was an accident. He paid for her trip, paid for the insurance, paid for their hotel, paid for the car, probably the booze and my guess the meals, too. So she was pretty much a captive audience. I sure would like to know if the sighting at the dog's grave yard really did happen. It would explain a lot.

I don't think Aruba has a Dram Shop Act, lol. And I doubt they have the charge of negligent homicide. I do know they protect their own. jmo

I don't think it's about protecting their own. As you know, Aruba depends on tourism to a great degree. They wanted Joran to go away and they wanted GG to go away - it's bad publicity and causes them to lose tourists. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[LambChop]

Unless he deliberately drowned her, he is not responsible for her actions.

Would she be responsible for his actions if she were driving and he disappeared beneath the surf?

Essentially you are correct but when someone has become so impaired that they don't understand how dangerous a situation is and you go ahead and encourage them to do something that could cost them their life you should be held accountable for your actions. He knew she'd been drinking, he knew she took sleeping pills (or he gave them to her without her knowledge), he took her to the location and according to a fisherman they did not get into the water right away but left. He then returned and supposedly they went into the water, swam out to deep water where at that time of day it would be impossible to see the bottom. He had to have known when he was waist deep that there was nothing to see so why didn't he go back in. His whole story reaks. Of course if he never got deeper than ankle deep he would not know had unbelievable his story sounds.

I don't blame Aruba for not wanting him back. My guess is the FBI will handle it from this end. I certainly hope so. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I don't think it's about protecting their own. As you know, Aruba depends on tourism to a great degree. They wanted Joran to go away and they wanted GG to go away - it's bad publicity and causes them to lose tourists. That's my opinion anyway.

JB said there was zero evidence and that is not true or they would not have held him and that is proven by the judge letting him go when he did. There just was not enough under Aruban law to hold him any longer. That does not mean he could not be charged here and there would be enough circumstancial evidence to indict him. His story does not match what facts are know. That would be considered evidence. He's not cute, petite, nor does he wrinkle his nose in a suggestive manner so if JB is saying it worked for KC it will not work for GG, IMO. jmo

 

[otto]

Essentially you are correct but when someone has become so impaired that they don't understand how dangerous a situation is and you go ahead and encourage them to do something that could cost them their life you should be held accountable for your actions. He knew she'd been drinking, he knew she took sleeping pills (or he gave them to her without her knowledge), he took her to the location and according to a fisherman they did not get into the water right away but left. He then returned and supposedly they went into the water, swam out to deep water where at that time of day it would be impossible to see the bottom. He had to have known when he was waist deep that there was nothing to see so why didn't he go back in. His whole story reaks. Of course if he never got deeper than ankle deep he would not know had unbelievable his story sounds.

I don't blame Aruba for not wanting him back. My guess is the FBI will handle it from this end. I certainly hope so. jmo

If two impaired people go swimming and one drowns, is the other automatically responsible? Robyn is/was an adult ... made her own decisions about what she ingested, made her own decisions about what she did and I simply cannot see how anyone would be responsible for her choices.

 

[LambChop]

Oh, they protect their own. Try getting a police report when an Aruban has hit your car and not reported it or you have a breakin in your condo. You have to track down the officer and basically tell them you will stand there until you get your report or you are not getting on that plane. lol

 

[gajonka]

III
Plus, just the fact that he was going t the car to fill up in "whatever" it may be... it shows that he is broke... in need of money. This guy.. is dead broke, and he knows what he did to solve that problem.

 

[LambChop]

If two impaired people go swimming and one drowns, is the other automatically responsible? Robyn is/was an adult ... made her own decisions about what she ingested, made her own decisions about what she did and I simply cannot see how anyone would be responsible for her choices.

But that is an assumption. GG told the server she had taken sleeping pills not RG. We have no idea if she took them or was given them in her drink now do we. Given the fact we know he lies it's hard to say what happened but he should have known better. By his own admission she was impaired and he admitted he knew she was impaired. I think he bears some responsibility for her disappearing. Then he admits to her cutting her foot and then going into the water that could have sharks in the area. Sharks can smell a drop of blood from a mile away. What was he thinking???? He sounds like the most irresponsible person in the world. jmo

 

[Nova]

We can all speculate ... but maybe a lawyer will drop by and answer the legal questions that have come up.

Personally, I don't think Baez has any moral and ethical standards, regardless of what is expected of lawyers.

Regardless of what you think of his character, otto (and I have no reason to disagree with you on that score), it's simply absurd to speculate that Baez told his client (as you put it) to lie about everything that happened and to tell as many different stories as possible. The former is suborning perjury and the latter is sheer incompetence.

I'm NOT saying lawyers don't have indirect ways of suggesting their clients lie; I'm saying lawyers don't make direct statements that can be used against them in disbarment proceedings. Not unless they are both retarded and insane.

It's much easier and safer to say something like, "Well, did your lawyer tell you to call and check on the insurance? 'Cause that's what I would do, just in case Aruba presented you with a bill for the search."

The client gets the point.

 

[otto]

But that is an assumption. GG told the server she had taken sleeping pills not RG. We have no idea if she took them or was given them in her drink now do we. Given the fact we know he lies it's hard to say what happened but he should have known better. By his own admission she was impaired and he admitted he knew she was impaired. I think he bears some responsibility for her disappearing. Then he admits to her cutting her foot and then going into the water that could have sharks in the area. Sharks can smell a drop of blood from a mile away. What was he thinking???? He sounds like the most irresponsible person in the world. jmo

So ... Arubans "protect their own" and are negligent because they don't prosecute the companion of a 35 woman that may have drowned?

 

[Nova]

Unless he deliberately drowned her, he is not responsible for her actions.

Would she be responsible for his actions if she were driving and he disappeared beneath the surf?

He might be culpable if he put something in her drink that compromised her judgment.

He might be if he tampered with her snorkeling equipment.

He might be if he used force to get her into the water against her will.

These are just off the top of my head; there may be other sets of facts where he would be legally guilty of murder.

I agree that if they both drank voluntarily and it later turned out that her alcohol consumption accidentally contributed to her drowning, then it's hard to see how he would be guilty of her murder.

 

[Nova]

I think it is odd that Gary is telling the server/LE RG took a sleeping pill in the middle of the day. Who would do that knowing you are going to snorkel? I think he told them so when her body returned to shore and they did blood tests they would fine the drug in her system and he would have already given them an explanation. Seems a little strange to tell people someone took a sleeping pill when it's only 4pm in the afternoon.

I absolutely agree. This makes no sense to me EXCEPT as an attempt to explain drugs he feared they might find in her system. I've taken various types of sleep aids and it wouldn't occur to me to do so in the middle of the day when I had activities (and/or consumption of alcohol) planned.

It's also strange to hear him say he bought insurance for the trip just in case he "disappeared". Who would say that? Wouldn't you say in case I died, or something happened to me. Why would you be so specific??? jmo

I found this odd, too. Particularly since he also bought insurance on RG and made himself the beneficiary. When I travel with my husband, I tend to think in terms of both of us disappearing, if I think about such things at all. We aren't apart often enough for me to worry that he will disappear without me.