ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 8

[katydid23]

I doubt they are taking 35 yr old american tourists and forcing them to work in strip clubs. I think they are talking about young girls from asia or south america who are essentially sold by poor family members and taken advantage of in that way. imoo

 

[LambChop]

No problem, Nova.

Based on this article (below), I'm not comfortable saying it doesn't exist in Aruba. IMO, actual cases often might not be reported. Or those reported are dismissed or not always acted upon.

However, one case that was acted upon involved Alex Mathew, who is currently being held in KIA in relation to an investigation involving human trafficking. IIRC, it was suspected the dancers at his establishment, Foxy Lady, had to work long hours for low pay under socially unacceptable circumstances. This also involved a lack of freedom, where the dancers were not permitted to resign. Maybe Alex Mathew will be the first offender to be prosecuted as a human trafficker (if he is guilty.)




2011 Trafficking in Persons Report - Aruba
Aruba (Tier 2) *


Aruba is primarily a destination for women and men subjected to sex trafficking and forced labor. Those at greatest risk of trafficking are foreign women in Aruba's commercial sex trade and foreign men and women in the service and construction industries. Also at risk are Chinese men and women working in supermarkets as well as Indian men in the jewelry sector, and Caribbean and South American women in domestic service. There are indications of past instances of Aruban children under 18 in prostitution in Aruba.

The Government of Aruba does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking; however, it is making significant efforts to do so. The government has not yet successfully prosecuted any trafficking offenders to date, though the Aruban anti-trafficking coordinator has demonstrated outstanding leadership in advancing the government's response to human trafficking during her short time in office, and the government initiated several complex prosecutions during the reporting season. The government also showed improved efforts in the area of victim protection, primarily officials' increased victim identification measures.


http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,ABW,,4e12ee99c,0.html

It does appear he was caught and they are doing something about him it appears. Given an opportunity that type of behavior will happen anywhere. Does not mean the country has a human trafficing problem. jmo

 

[neesaki]

If there is only one fisherman and he told LE or the press that GG was drunk later on, then yes, it is a strange comment
If he had followed that with until later.... It would make more sense IMO

How is it strange? He saw them when they first drove down to the beach, around 4:15. And he didn't see them again after that, at least before he stopped fishing for the day. I don't even get this question. :waitasec:

 

[vlpate]

Sound familiar? Guy comes up in a boat, JVS takes the money ($200 short), the trafficker takes Natalee. Great minds think alike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRviFqPE4W4

 

[neesaki]

So many witnesses that don't seem to have a straight story.

So many witnesses with different stories? Not really. What about GG, he is just one man, and with many more different stories.

 

[vlpate]

So many witnesses with different stories? Not really. What about GG, he is just one man, and with many more different stories.

I'm still looking for the Aruba travel or tourist guide that states one should call one's insurance carrier when your girlfriend has been swept away at sea.

Nothing so far...
www.aruba.com

 

[Pugnolia]

Just a question - how many 'time outs' do you get before you're kicked out for good?

 

[neesaki]

Let's say that is true, going by these various versions, both Robyn and Giordano were very drunk, plus per those same stories Robyn mixed strong alcohol with sleepingpills during the day.
Then she goes swimming in deep waters. If that information is correct then the whole insurance motive no longer holds water.

Incidents/accidents caused by reckless behavior and/or under the influence of drugs and alcohol are not covered. No 1,5 million motive anymore.

So is this where GG's "they were only drinking juice" story comes in? :seeya:

 

[neesaki]

-respectfully snipped a bit by me-



No I went with the scenario that is believed here that the Fisherman had no reason to lie, Giordano was so drunk he could not speak etc.

I do not believe that, but if you do believe it you cannot also believe the 1,5 million dollar motive.



Where does this claim come from?



Since he owns a car I am sure he is aware of the alcohol/drugs clause.

So maybe GG didn't plan to kill Robyn for insurance money in the beginning, or maybe the plan was a subconscious one. From what I have heard, he is a man with a known criminal background and history, he is known to be an extremely controlling man with an apparent rage disorder particularly when it comes to women; he chokes women, films them while he abuses them; he puts his fingers down their throat. He does whatever it takes to dominate and control. And, he is probably the only "deer mask stalker" in history.

I'm thinking that maybe the insurance was just a backup plan for GG. He knows he has to control and he knows his limits. He's conniving. He's devious. He's a complete and total opportunist. He always goes prepared on these vacations in which he insures his companions, each and every time.

Maybe he went with a definite plan to cash in on the insurance. I just don't know if that's the case. Regardless, I just think that GG's jealousy and anger and rage disorder are what happened to Robyn. As I say, I don't know, but my gut tells me that's what happened. :twocents:

 

[Saracen]

Of course. I think she was pretty mad. Don't you?

Do you think joran was innocent and misunderstood?

Why do people keep going back to this case? just because it happened in Aruba.. There must be another thread on this site,keep this one for who it is men't for.

 

[Dushi]

How is it strange? He saw them when they first drove down to the beach, around 4:15. And he didn't see them again after that, at least before he stopped fishing for the day. I don't even get this question. :waitasec:

Let me try to explain the question...

We were discussing whether or not there were two fishermen.
In one interview a fisherman said the above, he made no comment about GG being drunk.
All he said was he never saw them again that day

In a later interview a fisherman said GG was so drunk, LE sent him for a nap

Sapphire found and posted both interviews

The first fisherman doesn't say at least before he stopped fishing
he says its the last time he saw them that day

My post was made because I find it unusual that the first fisherman never mentioned seeing GG again and I am wondering idf there were two fisherman witnesses

Its quite simple
I guess i didn't express it well

 

[Dushi]

So is this where GG's "they were only drinking juice" story comes in? :seeya:

Thats my opinion

 

[vlpate]

Why do people keep going back to this case? just because it happened in Aruba.. There must be another thread on this site,keep this one for who it is men't for.

Case comparisons are made to for similarities, it happens all the time. Sometimes you see where people may have gotten their crazy ideas, or if thy have similar behavior patterns. I posted the video not to talk about Joran, but to show his interview in the beginning points to drug traffickers in a boat taking Natalee and giving him money - a completely fabricated story. So is it a common story between male killers in aruba? Does GG possess the same hinky traits as JVS?

We always wondered if KCA got her story in jail - I think jail is where GG came up with his. He needs to stick with his original drowning story or the truth.

 

[LambChop]

Let me try to explain the question...

We were discussing whether or not there were two fishermen.
In one interview a fisherman said the above, he made no comment about GG being drunk.
All he said was he never saw them again that day

In a later interview a fisherman said GG was so drunk, LE sent him for a nap

Sapphire found and posted both interviews

The first fisherman doesn't say at least before he stopped fishing
he says its the last time he saw them that day

My post was made because I find it unusual that the first fisherman never mentioned seeing GG again and I am wondering idf there were two fisherman witnesses

Its quite simple
I guess i didn't express it well

I think there were a number of witnesses LE tood statements from but not all were interviewed by the media. I'm sure the authorities have statements we have not heard yet. Would be nice if we knew but we may never find out. jmo

 

[LambChop]

-bolded by me

Ehm no, he said Mario Lopez tried to get Gary sign a retainer agreement where he would be getting one third of the insurance money.

09:40 into the interview:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/gary-giordano-interview-happened-robyn-garnder-aruba-15063287




Mario Lopez is not a personal injury lawyer, his expertises are: employment law, family law, criminal law and intellectual property.

Mario Lopez's website:

http://lopezlaw.aw/advocaten.php

ML stated in an interview he never permitted JB to see GG's file so JB has no idea what took place. He only has GG's version of what happened. My guess is that is why GG changed attorneys. JB may have had to find one who would cooperate with him. At least that is the way it appears. According to what you have listed above, ML was perfectly capable of representing GG and there does not appear to have been a conflict of interest as JB states. Was JB being less than truthful??? Well, according to what you have listed above criminal law would mean ML was perfectly capable of representing GG.

Would it be considered a conflict of interest if ML were first giving GG advice on a wrongful death suit and then switched over to criminal law once he was arrested? Is that what JB meant when he said there was a conflict of interest in ML representing GG. jmo

 

[Dushi]

I think there were a number of witnesses LE tood statements from but not all were interviewed by the media. I'm sure the authorities have statements we have not heard yet. Would be nice if we knew but we may never find out. jmo

I realize that

In this case, we have statements

Two statements, both given to the media

Somewhat different than each other

 

[Dushi]

This is also what I think happened, watching that video he is in NO WAY a man in any frantic mode or distressed whatsoever knocking on those doorways after the fact, one door he barely even touches before he seems to walk away.

I completely agree about him putting a pill in that drink, in CASE her body would wash up, and they can do a toxicology test, he wanted to have a cover story aobut the ambien they may find in her body so he stated she took one, or something along those lines. Wonder if she has a prescription for them, or if he has a prescription for them.

IMO, MOO, etc.

LE stated early on a prescription for ambien was found with Robyns belongings
It was hers



Police also found Ambien, the sleep medication, prescribed to Gardner in the Marriott Hotel room where she was staying with Giordano. Giordano told police that he saw Gardner take a sleeping pill the day he claims they went snorkeling and she never returned.

http://masoncountydailynews.com/new...no-in-jail-60-more-days-in-robyn-gardner-case

 

[LambChop]

I realize that

In this case, we have statements

Two statements, both given to the media

Somewhat different than each other

How are they different? Other than one did not see them again and the other noticed he was drunk? I only saw the Silva video, I did not see the other. Were there any other differences in their statements?

 

[Dushi]

How are they different? Other than one did not see them again and the other noticed he was drunk? I only saw the Silva video, I did not see the other. Were there any other differences in their statements?

The statements are posted up thread

Maybe its the word different that seems to cause the confusion

#1


A fisherman in Aruba says he saw the man suspected of Robyn Gardner's disappearance driving erratically and appearing to be drunk on the day the American tourist vanished.

Sergio Silva told ABC's "Good Morning America" that he saw Gardner and Gary Giordano leaving the Rum Reef Bar & Grill in a rental car on Aug. 2, driving "in the wrong direction."Later that evening, Silva says Giordano looked like he was drunk while he was speaking with police on the beach during the initial search for the missing tourist.

"Cops were all over him, trying to talk to him, and he would just mumble -- nobody could understand what he was saying," the eyewitness told "Good Morning America."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_938285.html


#2

As the 50-year-old is held for another day, his story regarding what happened the day Robyn disappeared is being cast into doubt as another witness said he saw the pair walking along the jetty when they were supposed to be snorkelling.

He claims they then drove off in a white rental car shortly after 4pm.

The fisherman claims the pair never went into the ocean and that after they drove off, he did not see them for the rest of the day.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1VyObqzXK



Thanks Sapphire for posting the above links

 

[Dushi]

The second post about the fisherman has no mention of erratic driving or drunkenness

He does not mention seeing GG again

Maybe its nothing
But the statement lacks details that the first one has

I am not debating whether either/ or is telling the truth
I am simply asking if there were two different fisherman witnesses