AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[Trooper]

There's every likelihood that was the case as well. So DH would have needed to tell the ex-fiancee in 2012/2013 that the two suitcases he'd been hanging onto belonged to his former girlfriend/deceased friend from 2008 and were full of her possessions. How else would she have known the belonged to Karlie?

at no time did the fiancée say, according to newsreports that she knew the stuff in the suitcases belonged to Karlie, and Khandalyce.. she just tells the police, and I am sure this is after the kind of careful questioning police people do to extract the maximum amount of catch on a very long fishing line, that .. oh yea.. I remember now.. he took 2 suitcases of stuff to his sisters place.

I do not for one moment believe he told this little fiancée one single thing about Karlie. .. this is now a very private matter between Holdum, himself, and naturally, his female accomplice of former times. A Very Private and Secret Matter.. I have no doubts that HP kept this private from her eggtossing cranky wheelchair pusher, too. This was DH and HP's complete secret.

 

[JaneSA]

Can I ask a question?
How do we know that HP and DH were still a couple post 2008?

From memory, all I can think of is the media reports where there were interviews with former neighbours who said the were always fighting.
But also, as far as I know, the houses HP has lived in since 2008 have been in her name (I may be wrong, but I think this is correct because of her disability and getting heavily subsidised housing).

Neighbours may well have been aware of fighting, but can we be sure the person HP was fighting with was DH? Could that just be supposition by the former neighbours after the fact, based on suggestion from the journos?

Is there compelling evidence that HP and DH remained together as a couple after 2008?
Have the police said they did, or is it just media?
Anyone know?

 

[Panda]

The article in the Maitland Mercury below has always intrigued me. It states in part that...Someone told police Holdom allegedly took two suitcases believed to be carrying some of Ms Pearce-Stevenson's possessions.

Took them from where? Who was the someone?

In trying to nut this out my first thought was that when HP was first questioned by police in early October she has told them that when she and DH finally parted ways (sometime in 2011 or later), DH left the family home with not only his own gear but the two suitcases belonging to Karlie. "Yep, he took all of his stuff and the two cases belonging to Karlie, went to his sister's place and I haven't seen him since."

In the second article quoted below from the Herald Sun it states in part that...Police seized two suitcases from the property believed to hold possessions belonging to the mother following a tip-off.

This is where it becomes a little confusing. Did DH finally pack up and leave HP in Adelaide, taking Karlie's luggage with him. During the investigation the police received a tip-off (from HP) that Karlie's luggage is at DH's sister's place and that's exactly where they find it?

Did HP try and throw DH under the bus early in the peace or has one or both of the newspapers got it all wrong?

If HP is totally clueless about Karlie's murder, what reason did DH give her for having Karlie's luggage? "Oh, Karlie's away working (or visiting family, picking fruit, running drugs, drilling for oil etc. etc.) and she wants you to impersonate her to update her bank account and Centrelink details so that we can draw money from her account and send it to her."

Nup, I don't buy that one.

Whoever the 'someone' was that tipped off the police, they knew that those two suitcases contained Karlie's possessions. Perhaps DH's sister simply contacted the police to let them know that Karlie's luggage was at her place.

Nup, I don't buy that one either.

Thoughts?

IMO.

BBM: UBM:



http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/s...d-to-accused-killer-daniel-james-holdom/?cs=7

Nov. 12, 2015, 1:25 p.m.




http://news.anotao.com/link/au/www....ry-fnii5yv7-1227605383339?from=herald+sun_rss

November 12, 2015 11:26am

Yes, very difficult. I personally believe it may have been whoever made the initial call to Crime Stoppers on October the 8th (I think it was then). I don't believe it was Hazel - I think she only became involved because of the initial call from someone else. I suspect Hazel was involved and I can't see her tipping off Crime Stoppers out of the goodness of her heart.

The police have on a number of occasions referred to a man and at least two women involved in the fraud and possibly the deaths or knowledge of the deaths. Family is always thicker than water, and I personally believe the sister is privy to a great deal - even if she isn't directly involved. I do believe she would know who was. Being family, she would have been a trusted ally to Holdom.

The other possibility is the person that took the photo of Karlie and Khandalyce. They may have been an old friend of Karlie's with whom she was catching up with and found it strange that she never had contact with her again. When the suitcase became known, she may have rung police to say she suspected the little girl in the suitcase may have been Khandalyce. I imagine when they saw each other, they talked about various things, and it is quite reasonable to assume that Karlie may have discussed her circumstances with this friend - i.e. she was seeing Holdom, living with him or whatever the case may have been.

And of course, there is the possibility that Holdom's sister's partner/husband called Crime Stoppers. We don't know if she is in a relationship or not (obviously), but if she had been, this person may have been privy to a lot of inside information from the sister.

Really, you could go round and round in circles. I think one of the most important clues would be if we knew the circumstances of why the suitcase was dumped all those years later - that really kicked it all off.

In any case, if there were (as the police suspect) two or more women involved - I do think they would be women that Holdom was very familiar with and trusted - either by means of a relationship, or a relative.

 

[Found]

I am inclined to agree with that.
It's one of those impossible dichotomies I keep mentioning.

DH cannot be, on the one hand, "cunning as a s-h rat!" and able to maintain a tissue of lies to convince people Karlie and Khandalyce are alive,
while on the other hand, be too stupid not to slip a dead woman's card out of his wallet and into the car window gap when he sees the police pull over next to him, or destroy her belongings.

Either he is dumb, or he is smart, but not both IMO.

Yes completely agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JaneSA]

Might be worth starting a timeline of where Holdom was living and when.

This could help as a starting point >>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-living-in-alice/story-e6frg6nf-1227599571409

 

[Makara]

I am inclined to agree with that.
It's one of those impossible dichotomies I keep mentioning.

DH cannot be, on the one hand, "cunning as a s-h rat!" and able to maintain a tissue of lies to convince people Karlie and Khandalyce are alive,
while on the other hand, be too stupid not to slip a dead woman's card out of his wallet and into the car window gap when he sees the police pull over next to him, or destroy her belongings.

Either he is dumb, or he is smart, but not both IMO.

BBM: Who are you quoting?

 

[Makara]

Might be worth starting a timeline of where Holdom was living and when.

This could help as a starting point >>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-living-in-alice/story-e6frg6nf-1227599571409

Start paraphrasing honey!

 

[Trooper]

Might be worth starting a timeline of where Holdom was living and when.

This could help as a starting point >>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-living-in-alice/story-e6frg6nf-1227599571409

that wont be easy as a lot of where he was living is subjudice. but knock yourself out with it, and good luck.

 

[Panda]

Naturally, she knows nothing about Karlie, or Kandalyce.. she doesn't know who's stuff she is packing, she doesn't know anything except , as she told the police, he took 2 suitcases to his sisters. So the police go there, and find , ( and the police do not say at any time that this article was found IN either of the 2 suitcases ) at the sisters home, the birth certificate of Khandalyce.

They didn't get engaged until 2012, but shortly thereafter, and it now becomes a bit difficult for me, let me put it this way, say, Holdom has to leave his 16yr fiancée and heed to instructions of Authority and move to somewhere else, and his belongings need to be stored, and/or discarded. So stuff is taken to various place, one of which was his sister's.

But when the tip off was made - I don't think they knew who the little girl was. A call to Crime Stoppers thought the little girl in the suitcase may have been Khandalyce. At that stage they were trying to identify her. So how would the ex fiancee be privy to this information? It doesn't make sense to me that she would randomly ring police to direct the police to two random suitcases if she didn't even know about Karlie and Khandalyce in the first place. Unless Holdom confessed everything to her, then of course she would know.

 

[Trooper]

be worth while having a timeline of where Hazel was living, right back to around 2005 , .... but its a slim chance I'll ever be able to get that.

 

[JaneSA]

Not much so far, but it's a start.
Can anyone add details?

HOLDOM'S ADDRESSES


Moving between addresses across eastern Australia between 2001 and 2013 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-living-in-alice/story-e6frg6nf-1227599571409)


April 2001 Charnwood, Canberra (ibid.)


May 2007 caravan park in Taree (ibid.)


April 2008 Alice Springs (ibid.)


"The relationship between Holdom and the woman (HP) is believed to have ended (in 2008)"
(http://www.smh.com.au/national/dani...tity-fraud-20151029-gklz45.html#ixzz3ssUiB4hG )

 

[Trooper]

But when the tip off was made - I don't think they knew who the little girl was. A call to Crime Stoppers thought the little girl in the suitcase may have been Khandalyce. At that stage they were trying to identify her. So how would the ex fiancee be privy to this information? It doesn't make sense to me that she would randomly ring police to direct the police to two random suitcases if she didn't even know about Karlie and Khandalyce in the first place. Unless Holdom confessed everything to her, then of course she would know.

I just don't follow this, Panda. .. lets clear it up a bit...the little fiancée comes forward way after Khandalyce is identified and way after Karlie is linked up and identified.. She comes forward when Holdom has already been arrested and charged with Karlie's murder. And she didn't randomly ring police either, I think, if I recall correctly, someone pointed her out to police as being his ex fiancée, so they contacted her, not the other way around, and she was happy to ,or .. she didn't come across as distressed , about talking to the police about Daniel Holdom.

 

[Panda]

I just don't follow this, Panda. .. lets clear it up a bit...the little fiancée comes forward way after Khandalyce is identified and way after Karlie is linked up and identified.. She comes forward when Holdom has already been arrested and charged with Karlie's murder. And she didn't randomly ring police either, I think, if I recall correctly, someone pointed her out to police as being his ex fiancée, so they contacted her, not the other way around, and she was happy to ,or .. she didn't come across as distressed , about talking to the police about Daniel Holdom.

Sorry Trooper - I think we're at cross purposes and I may have grabbed the wrong end of the stick. What I am meaning is I don't think she would be the person who rang Crime Stoppers (for the reasons I said). I thought the reference was regarding a tip off to Crime Stoppers - someone ringing Crime Stoppers and giving the information regarding the places to search, the suitcases etc. If as you say, the police contacted her, that's an entirely different ball game.

 

[Oona]

I just don't follow this, Panda. .. lets clear it up a bit...the little fiancée comes forward way after Khandalyce is identified and way after Karlie is linked up and identified.. She comes forward when Holdom has already been arrested and charged with Karlie's murder. And she didn't randomly ring police either, I think, if I recall correctly, someone pointed her out to police as being his ex fiancée, so they contacted her, not the other way around, and she was happy to ,or .. she didn't come across as distressed , about talking to the police about Daniel Holdom.

BBM Can you provide a link for this? I am not quite sure how we could make any assumptions about this person's state of mind.

 

[Panda]

Not much so far, but it's a start.
Can anyone add details?

HOLDOM'S ADDRESSES


Moving between addresses across eastern Australia between 2001 and 2013 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-living-in-alice/story-e6frg6nf-1227599571409)


April 2001 Charnwood, Canberra (ibid.)


May 2007 caravan park in Taree (ibid.)


April 2008 Alice Springs (ibid.)


"The relationship between Holdom and the woman (HP) is believed to have ended (in 2008)"
(http://www.smh.com.au/national/dani...tity-fraud-20151029-gklz45.html#ixzz3ssUiB4hG )

Wasn't there a reference to Holdom being in Goulburn? Don't quote me though - I just vaguely remember something about it. And of course he came from Orange, so who knows how long he lived there and if he went back again when he was older.

 

[Trooper]

I hardly think the police would say to the ex fiancée , now about those suitcases with Karlie and Khandalyce stuff in them. no.. it would be something like..

*gentle police voice* .. ' now. .. tell me what Daniel did when he knew he had to leave the caravan park.'..

* little fiancée * ...........' oh. we .. packed up his stuff, you know.. tidied up a bit. took stuff to the tip. ..'

* gentle police voice* ....' and can you remember what was taken to the tip?'

* little fiancée* ............ 'oh.. um/. old newspapers .. old boots. some old gardening stuff, some broken shovels, .. you know, stuff like that.. .. a broken bike.. yea.. '

* gentle police voice * ... ' and anything else removed from the caravan that you can remember?..'

* little fiancée voice * .... ' nooooo.. nothing else,.. just oh yea.. some stuff, you know, we took to his sisters place, a couple of suitcases.....'

* alert police voice* .........'ooo just a couple of suitcases hm.. any idea of what was in them? ..'

* little fiancée voice *......' errm..yes there was stuff. papers, stuff, I dunno. stuff. but he wanted that stuff to go to his sisters, not the tip'

* gentle police voice * ......' ah. well. thankyou , you have been most helpful, will you be remaining in town for a while?'....

and so on.

 

[Trooper]

BBM Can you provide a link for this? I am not quite sure how we could make any assumptions about this person's state of mind.

I am looking for the pic of her grinning like mad at the camera... god knows how long it will take, because for the life of me I cannot remember her name. She was not concerned about giving her name as I recall and I found that partly refreshing and partly worrying for her. .. there is certainly a picture of her on the web, and while it may take a day, I wont forget it, Panda.

 

[Makara]

Can I ask a question?
How do we know that HP and DH were still a couple post 2008?

From memory, all I can think of is the media reports where there were interviews with former neighbours who said the were always fighting.
But also, as far as I know, the houses HP has lived in since 2008 have been in her name (I may be wrong, but I think this is correct because of her disability and getting heavily subsidised housing).

Neighbours may well have been aware of fighting, but can we be sure the person HP was fighting with was DH? Could that just be supposition by the former neighbours after the fact, based on suggestion from the journos?

Is there compelling evidence that HP and DH remained together as a couple after 2008?
Have the police said they did, or is it just media?
Anyone know?

You could be totally wrong in saying that the houses HP has lived in since 2008 were all in her name.

The neighbours mentioned the arguments between HP and DH in 2011. The also stated that they had personally met DH. That works for me.

Compelling evidence? Don't we wish. It's a matter of take it or leave it with what has been reported by both MSM and the police at this stage.

 

[KG1]

The article in the Maitland Mercury below has always intrigued me. It states in part that...Someone told police Holdom allegedly took two suitcases believed to be carrying some of Ms Pearce-Stevenson's possessions.

Took them from where? Who was the someone?

In trying to nut this out my first thought was that when HP was first questioned by police in early October she has told them that when she and DH finally parted ways (sometime in 2011 or later), DH left the family home with not only his own gear but the two suitcases belonging to Karlie. "Yep, he took all of his stuff and the two cases belonging to Karlie, went to his sister's place and I haven't seen him since."

In the second article quoted below from the Herald Sun it states in part that...Police seized two suitcases from the property believed to hold possessions belonging to the mother following a tip-off.

This is where it becomes a little confusing. Did DH finally pack up and leave HP in Adelaide, taking Karlie's luggage with him. During the investigation the police received a tip-off (from HP) that Karlie's luggage is at DH's sister's place and that's exactly where they find it?

Did HP try and throw DH under the bus early in the peace or has one or both of the newspapers got it all wrong?

If HP is totally clueless about Karlie's murder, what reason did DH give her for having Karlie's luggage? "Oh, Karlie's away working (or visiting family, picking fruit, running drugs, drilling for oil etc. etc.) and she wants you to impersonate her to update her bank account and Centrelink details so that we can draw money from her account and send it to her."

Nup, I don't buy that one.

Whoever the 'someone' was that tipped off the police, they knew that those two suitcases contained Karlie's possessions. Perhaps DH's sister simply contacted the police to let them know that Karlie's luggage was at her place.

Nup, I don't buy that one either.

Thoughts?

IMO.

BBM: UBM:



http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/s...d-to-accused-killer-daniel-james-holdom/?cs=7

Nov. 12, 2015, 1:25 p.m.




http://news.anotao.com/link/au/www....ry-fnii5yv7-1227605383339?from=herald+sun_rss

November 12, 2015 11:26am

Is it likely that Holdom, Karlie and Khandalyce were actually staying at Holdom's sister's place when Karlie was killed? Khandalyce would likely have been in bed when her mother was killed, with Holdom killing Karlie during that evening of 14/15 December 2008. (Dates indicate that the presence in Belanglo could have been quite late on 14/12 going into 15/12). Both of them may have left the sister's house to go 'somewhere', and left the sister to watch Khandalyce. On his return from Belanglo, he could have told his sister anything, or the truth. Meantime the 2 suitcases and Karlie's papers remained there at the sister's indefinitely.

But if he and Karlie and Khandalyce were staying in a caravan park when she was killed, then he has brought the suitcases etc to his sister's at a later time, and there would be no sign of Khandalyce either by then. He could have told the sister in this scenario that Karlie ran out on him with her daughter, and left all her stuff behind. Or any other sort of story to explain if he indeed told her it was Karlie's stuff. The sister may not have known it was and thought it was his stuff.

Meantime, Khandlyce has been killed and left somewhere 'safe' to Holdom, so she will not be discovered. It is my belief that Khandalyce was killed in the ACT. She was then retrieved at a later time and placed in the suitcase. It would have been very risky transporting that suitcase with the bones inside. Police can always pull up and search cars. Perhaps it was transported to SA via someone on a bus. No one searches buses randomly. Just my thoughts.

 

[Trooper]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-engaged-to-teen/story-e6frg6nf-1227588810144

ahhah.. yes.Toni Blundell.. ..