Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #11 *Arrest*

[TootsieFootsie]

Police probe after wild mushroom deaths

A major police probe has been launched into the deaths of three elderly people who died after eating wild and poisonous mushrooms.

au.lifestyle.yahoo.com

One man still fighting for life.

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Thread #10

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

IMPORTANT

Effective with Erin Patterson's arrest, sub judice is in effect and will be until a trial has concluded. For anyone not familiar with the judicial principle of sub judice, please review the following.

WS is based in the USA but we do try to manage the various discussions to comply with laws of other countries.

As this trial is in Australia, the case is under sub judice so please avoid anything that violates the following principles:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits

Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:
Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.

Posts that are determined to constitute a violation of sub judice will be removed. To avoid this, please review the following from the Victoria Law Reform Commission and post accordingly:

10. Sub judice contempt: restricting the publication of prejudicial information

 

[Sillybilly]

Please read the above Post #2 regarding sub judice and continue discussion here.

 

[MrJ]

Good morning. I wonder what the trial will bring for us today.

 

[SouthAussie]

Good morning. I wonder what the trial will bring for us today.

I am thinking that there may be a verdict some time later next week. Projecting way ahead, I know.

 

[MrJ]

I am thinking that there may be a verdict some time later next week. Projecting way ahead, I know.

The trial really has gone very quickly; time flies. IMO it's proving difficult to find clear-cut intent for the murder charge, maybe she gets a lesser charge/walks? Wonder what everyone else thinks, there may have been something I haven't considered

 

[Lisa4]

The trial really has gone very quickly; time flies. IMO it's proving difficult to find clear-cut intent for the murder charge, maybe she gets a lesser charge/walks? Wonder what everyone else thinks, there may have been something I haven't considered

Could you please tell me more @MrJ about why you think this? (re proving difficult to find clear cut intent).

I'd have thought that simply proving the knowing use of deathcap mushrooms would have been enough, as there is every chance they will cause death to anyone who consumes... but I haven't followed a trial like this before, and feel very ignorant!

 

[MrJ]

Could you please tell me more @MrJ about why you think this? (re proving difficult to find clear cut intent).

I'd have thought that simply proving the knowing use of deathcap mushrooms would have been enough, as there is every chance they will cause death to anyone who consumes... but I haven't followed a trial like this before, and feel very ignorant!

yeah that's true, I guess what I meant by that is IMO there's lots of evidence that points towards at least intent or some degree of panic from being found out, like the inaturalist searches, the dehydrator throwing away and the missing second phone, guess I was just frustrated by the defence's tactics trying to muddy the waters, but that's their job after all. I feel like I have a bit more of a clearer picture in my mind but as always from any of these cases I wish I had the full and complete story from EP herself.

 

[Bats]

The trial really has gone very quickly; time flies. IMO it's proving difficult to find clear-cut intent for the murder charge, maybe she gets a lesser charge/walks? Wonder what everyone else thinks, there may have been something I haven't considered

I think the defence will finish up today and there will be a fresh start on Monday with closing arguments. Though defence being defence, they may drag it on so they finish on Monday morning giving the prosecution a less than ideal start.
A bit like declaring 3 overs before lunch in cricket.

I feel the closing arguments will need minimum 2 days and the judge will need at least a day as well. I think the jury may start deliberating on Friday, then back on the following Tuesday after a long weekend here in Victoria.

 

[SouthAussie]

The jury is currently made up of 9 men and 5 women. Once two are ballotted off, there will still be a majority-men jury who decides Erin's fate.

I wonder if men will (in general) see her as more of a schemer, with Simon perfectly capable of raising their children to legal age.
Or if men will (in general) sympathise with Erin's position, and think this poor befuddled woman could have made an honest mistake.

Which doesn't allow for one person of either gender to be a hold out, of course.

But there is a reason that both the prosecution and defence selected a primarily male jury. imo


The male juror was formally released from the panel of 15 jurors on Thursday morning by Justice Christopher Beale.
Juror discharged in Erin Patterson's mushroom murder trial

 

[Lisa4]

yeah that's true, I guess what I meant by that is IMO there's lots of evidence that points towards at least intent or some degree of panic from being found out, like the inaturalist searches, the dehydrator throwing away and the missing second phone, guess I was just frustrated by the defence's tactics trying to muddy the waters, but that's their job after all. I feel like I have a bit more of a clearer picture in my mind but as always from any of these cases I wish I had the full and complete story from EP herself.

And what an uphill job for them! I would have been tearing my hair out behind the scenes if I'd been landed with defence for this one. No matter which way I've looked at it, I haven't been able to come up with a watertight scenario for it all to be a genuine accident.

IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

And what an uphill job for them! I would have been tearing my hair out behind the scenes if I'd been landed with defence for this one. No matter which way I've looked at it, I haven't been able to come up with a watertight scenario for it all to be a genuine accident.

They will still get their massive paycheck for their work. It is not really personal for the defence. They do the best they can, given the circumstances, then go home each night and live their lives.

Probably are pretty good mates with the prosecutors also. It is a tight legal fraternity.

imo

 

[JBowie]

Or if men will (in general) sympathise with Erin's position, and think this poor befuddled woman could have made an honest mistake.

IMO, any sane man (or woman for that matter) would see a lying schemer and a very poor actress.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Seems that Prosecution has proved DC mushrooms in the food, and DC contribute to sickness of one guest. (Others similar sick & died). Also seems Proved she had knowledge & photo of one such DC on her device. And proved DC in her food dryer (not purchased at Asian Shop). Proved she reset phones after police took into evidence. And proved she at a time, had deep dislike of in-laws …

Reasonable to conclude that she did introduce the mushrooms into the recipe deliberately

 

[MrJ]

If it was as the defence says a 'tragic accident', why would EP go to the lengths to:

• look up death caps sighting on iNaturalist and around the same time in early 2023 buy a dehydrator;
• throw said dehydrator out at the tip with DC samples in it;
• make up a bogus cancer story, persist that lie in texts and bring the guests to the lunch with that ruse knowing full well it was a lie;
• insist she didn't forage for the mushrooms when she did;
• say in her police interview that she loved her relatives when she was repeatedly disparaging them in her FB friends' group chat;
• and most importantly, lie to health staff about where she sourced the mushrooms, leading them and council on a wild goose chase to Asian grocers/Woolworths when she later admitted she foraged them herself? Not only that, but ensuring the right treatment to her ill guests was given instead of not being transparent.

A lot of things just don't add up to me. JMO

 

[MsMarple]

Live: Murder trial of accused mushroom killer Erin Patterson continues

Erin Patterson is accused of murdering three of her relatives by serving them a beef Wellington lunch which contained death cap mushrooms. Follow the trial live.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Bats]

And what an uphill job for them! I would have been tearing my hair out behind the scenes if I'd been landed with defence for this one. No matter which way I've looked at it, I haven't been able to come up with a watertight scenario for it all to be a genuine accident.

IMO

The defence team would be be delighted to receive this case. Very much the dream job for them, I'd say. Like a mathematician being tasked with solving a difficult problem.

 

[MsMarple]

I wonder if the defense worked through the legal stuff from yesterday. This may be a short day otherwise.

 

[MsMarple]

4m ago

Q+A with Mushroom Case Daily​

By Kristian Silva and Stephen Stockwell​

Court reporter Kristian Silva and producer Stephen Stockwell are also answering all the questions you have about the trial.

To get in touch and ask the team something, write to [email protected].

Q: What is the relevance of the pub meal delivered to Erin’s house? Was it the date of the meal? It's been mentioned a couple of times now and I've clearly missed why. - Robyn

A: In analysis of the browser history on a computer in Erin Patterson’s home, the court heard about a visit to the Korumburra Pub website, where meals were ordered online. This was in May 2022, some 14 months before the lunch took place. But it allegedly occurred a couple of minutes after this same computer accessed the iNaturalist website and visited some pages with death cap mushroom material on it.

Like with a lot of the evidence in this case, prosecutors have sought to provide some level of context. For example, when showing phone records from a date, they will also show the jury phone records from before and after that date for context.

I think it's safe to say we just put the Korumburra pub website visit in the broader context of what the person on the computer was looking at on this particular date.

Live: Murder trial of accused mushroom killer Erin Patterson continues

Erin Patterson is accused of murdering three of her relatives by serving them a beef Wellington lunch which contained death cap mushrooms. Follow the trial live.

www.abc.net.au

 

[MsMarple]

Another recap from Daily Mail while we wait:

Patterson's texts to health officer revealed​

Health officer Sally Ann Atkinson previously told the jury she thought a death cap mushroom poisoning outbreak was 'quite unusual'.
'I then initiated an investigation and immediately notified my manager,' she said.
The health officer said she wanted to get the death cap mushrooms off the shelves if they 'existed'.

Ms Atkinson also notified the Food Safety Unit which co-ordinates food recalls among other actions.

Ms Atkinson said she quickly put together a Problem Assessment Group (PAG) which was set up on August 1.

She later told the jury she mentioned to the PAG what she had discussed with Patterson the day prior.

Ms Atkinson said she attempted to call Patterson again on August 1.

Text messages sent between Ms Atkinson and Patterson were shown to the court.
Ms Atkinson texted Patterson at 3.50pm on August 1.

'Hi Erin, Sally from the Department of Health here,' the message started.
Ms Atkinson asked in the text for specific information including other ingredients and what drinks were served.

'I need to know what drinks were served, I need to know what shallots were used.'
Ms Atkinson also told Patterson that she needed 'more precise information about the packaging' and 'any roads you were parked on or (were) near those stores' and other landmarks.

'Just things to think about when I need to speak to you again,' Ms Atkinson ended her message.

Patterson responded at 4.08pm on August 2:
'Hi Sally I will try to get that information all to you as soon as possible,' she wrote.
'I’m just dealing with trying to manage and look after the kids in hospital here and a bit snowed under trying to manage that.

'I’ll get this info to you as soon as I can but I've just been in a couple of meetings with people at the hospital when you’ve been trying to call.'
Ms Atkinson texted Patterson back barely a minute later and asked about the kids
'Yeah they're fine thank you,' Patterson responded at 4.11pm.
'Very glad to hear that,' Ms Atkinson immediately replied.

Ms Atkinson said she also attempted to ring Patterson back later that evening but got no answer, left a voicemail and received no return call.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk