Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

[SouthAussie]

Fwiw I think the meaning of the message has been mangled in the media. I suspect, as a single parent, she would be entitled to receive child support and FTB, but she hadn't applied because she believed they were filing their taxes as a married couple. I feel like the actual text of the message was published somewhere - perhaps someone can find it?

Notice how she was fussing about the FTB to his family in December, when she had already started the process to apply for it in November.
And it sounds as if she had been receiving the entire $15,000 FTB, until Simon declared that he was separated - now she would have to split it with him, unless he authorised her receiving the full 100%.

imo


Erin had sent to the family Signal chat group, which included his parents, Don and Gail Patterson .... In one long message sent on December 5, 2022, read out to the court .... Erin said the implication of Simon putting “separated” on his tax return in late 2022 was that she would no longer be able to claim the $15,000 annual family tax benefit.
Erin Patterson told online friends her estranged husband was controlling and coercive, court told


21 November 2022, 1.03pm
Erin Patterson: [text to Simon]
“FYI I put in child support application so that I can also supply for the family tax benefit, as I said I was going to do a few weeks back.
“Their procedure is try to contact you by phone or letter, idk (I don’t know) which to confirm basic details, such as you accept you’re the father of the children and agree we’re separated etc. They asked for a date of separation, it is kind of moot because the assessment doesn’t begin until the date I applied, which is November 18th, but I said September 14th for the sake of having a date. They’ll probably ask you to confirm that so that our information lines up. Just fyi”
Erin Patterson mushroom trial: ‘Friction’ over ex-husband Simon Patterson’s $40-a-month child support payments

 

[brisbanemum]

Fwiw I think the meaning of the message has been mangled in the media. I suspect, as a single parent, she would be entitled to receive child support and FTB, but she hadn't applied because she believed they were filing their taxes as a married couple. I feel like the actual text of the message was published somewhere - perhaps someone can find it?

I suspect she would have been ineligible for single parenting payment because of her assets. Unlike family tax benefit (which is a different type of payment) it is asset tested as far as I know.

There was in fact a child support assessment done and it came out at a very low amount (I think SP had to pay $40 a month) indicating that EP’s income must have been substantially higher than SP’s.

Also, everyone files their taxes as an individual in Australia, there is no such thing as joint filing. So EP would not have had oversight of what SP was putting on his tax return unless he shared that information with her.

 

[brisbanemum]

I did a calculation and it looks like Erins income was over 250k per year to be receiving only $48 per month from Simon - that is, more than double his income. This isn't surprising considering her land only cost $260,000 and she inherited 3m from her mother in 2019. So I assume even if the house cost $600,000 to build, she should have 1.8-2m or so in assets/stocks/high interest bearing accounts, rental property, investments which could return an income of $250,000 PA for Erin.

She wouldn't have been eligible for FTB A or FTB B.

No Payment: FTB Part A ceases when ATI exceeds $128,383 for two children of these ages.
Single Parents: Eligible if ATI is $117,194 or less.

If Simon took one child 1.5 extra days per week, or had both children for 1 day per weekend extra, Erin would have to pay him child support.

She was on a great wicket when Simon was paying over >$400 per week in school fees, plus medical bills. Him changing his tax status to "separated" and her filing for FTB A & B and child support would have seen a reduction in her income of approximately $21,000 per year.

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/online-estimators?context=64107

The family tax benefit payments aren’t asset tested, only income tested. I think it’s possible EP had all of her money tied up in property. Didn’t she own several? Her income was likely effectively nothing if she wasn’t renting the properties out, because she also wasn’t working. That would have made SP the sole income earner for the purposes of the FTB. So they as a family unit were likely still eligible as long as SP was earning under the income threshold.

The minute they seperate though - you are correct in your assumptions that things would have changed significantly in the financial sense for her. She was indeed on a very good wicket as you say.

 

[Detechtive]

Notice how she was fussing about the FTB to his family in December, when she had already started the process to apply for it in November.
And it sounds as if she had been receiving the entire $15,000 FTB, until Simon declared that he was separated - now she would have to split it with him, unless he authorised her receiving the full 100%.

imo


Erin had sent to the family Signal chat group, which included his parents, Don and Gail Patterson .... In one long message sent on December 5, 2022, read out to the court .... Erin said the implication of Simon putting “separated” on his tax return in late 2022 was that she would no longer be able to claim the $15,000 annual family tax benefit.
Erin Patterson told online friends her estranged husband was controlling and coercive, court told


21 November 2022, 1.03pm
Erin Patterson: [text to Simon]
“FYI I put in child support application so that I can also supply for the family tax benefit, as I said I was going to do a few weeks back.
“Their procedure is try to contact you by phone or letter, idk (I don’t know) which to confirm basic details, such as you accept you’re the father of the children and agree we’re separated etc. They asked for a date of separation, it is kind of moot because the assessment doesn’t begin until the date I applied, which is November 18th, but I said September 14th for the sake of having a date. They’ll probably ask you to confirm that so that our information lines up. Just fyi”
Erin Patterson mushroom trial: ‘Friction’ over ex-husband Simon Patterson’s $40-a-month child support payments

None of what Erin says makes financial sense. For Erin to get $15,000 in FTB if they were considered 'together', they would have to have a combined income of less than $117,000 per year. I wonder if this was another lie of hers - maybe she was financially controlling too? IMO

 

[Detechtive]

The family tax benefit payments aren’t asset tested, only income tested. I think it’s possible EP had all of her money tied up in property. Didn’t she own several? Her income was likely effectively nothing if she wasn’t renting the properties out, because she also wasn’t working. That would have made SP the sole income earner for the purposes of the FTB. So they as a family unit were likely still eligible as long as SP was earning under the income threshold.

The minute they seperate though - you are correct in your assumptions that things would have changed significantly in the financial sense for her. She was indeed on a very good wicket as you say.

If her income was essentially nothing, Simon would have had to pay her substantial child support given she was the primary custodian. He didn't - he was assessed at around $10 per week for 2 children.

My calculation is based on a full time Engineers wage, which would mean Erin had an income above 250k to only receive the $40 or $48 per month (i can't remember the correct figure) based on centrelink calculations.

 

[brisbanemum]

If her income was essentially nothing, Simon would have had to pay her substantial child support given she was the primary custodian. He didn't - he was assessed at around $10 per week for 2 children.

My calculation is based on a full time Engineers wage, which would mean Erin had an income above 250k to only receive the $40 or $48 per month (i can't remember the correct figure) based on centrelink calculations.

CSA would take all of her assets (property) into account as part of their calculations though. But who knows with EP, she’s not exactly what you’d call a transparent person.

 

[Detechtive]

@

Iam trying to catch-up but do you think there’s a possibility she put it in to get the screen replaced? Innocently or not, there was mention of it in her fb posts. Why collect it during that investigation?

Would you hand over your phone? Everything in there, your only contact with kids, school, all services. Iam a law abiding citizen but I think I’d have trouble. Everything requires two-factor ID. My mobile is everything.

You don't have a choice. Police can seize your phone. They had a warrant to search it, which requires seizure.

 

[Detechtive]

CSA would take all of her assets (property) into account as part of their calculations though. But who knows with EP, she’s not exactly what you’d call a transparent person.

Assets aren't assessed in CS calculations.

 

[JBowie]

@

Iam trying to catch-up but do you think there’s a possibility she put it in to get the screen replaced? Innocently or not, there was mention of it in her fb posts. Why collect it during that investigation?

Would you hand over your phone? Everything in there, your only contact with kids, school, all services. Iam a law abiding citizen but I think I’d have trouble. Everything requires two-factor ID. My mobile is everything.

AFAIK, there has been no explanation from EP as to the 'disappearance' of the missing phone. I would have expected police to ask her and for her reply to be in police evidence given in court but, if that is the case, then either I missed it or I have yet to hear of it.

As for handing over a phone:

Under the Evidence Act 2008, Victoria Police are allowed to seize certain items if there are reasonable grounds to believe that:

• An offence has occurred
• The items seized constitute material evidence to prove the commission of the serious offence
• The person in possession of the item being seized is implicated in the crime

In addition to the clauses setting out when police may lawfully seize your property, the Evidence Act 2008 also dictates that police are not permitted to retain the seized articles for longer than is reasonably necessary to complete their investigations, or to create a copy of it.

Our lawyers explain when and if police can take your phone

What does Victorian law say about the police seizing your phone? Our legal team explains your rights, and what your options are when your phone is confiscated.

dowsleyassociates.com.au

 

[Old Soul]

I wonder if SP has initiated a divorce, since they have been separated (on paper) since September 2022.
I have no idea how property might be divided if one party were to receive a lengthy prison sentence…though I’m supposing EP is spending a lot of money on her legal fees?

 

[L_B]

You can actually do financial settlement separate to divorce, they are independent... However once the divorce is finalised you have 12 months to do the financial settlement.

 

[brisbanemum]

Assets aren't assessed in CS calculations.

They absolutely can be, especially if a reassessment is undertaken. See the Child Support Act. Lots of people try and hide money in assets to avoid paying child support.

https://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/5/2/8#assetrich

 

[Detechtive]

They absolutely can be, especially if a reassessment is undertaken. See the Child Support Act. Lots of people try and hide money in assets to avoid paying child support.

https://guides.dss.gov.au/child-support-guide/5/2/8#assetrich

Yeah, but it isn't in a standard CS assessment.

The reason I think it wasn't including assets is because the CS assessment was returned quickly. Those change of assessments take months of review after the original assessment is done.

But also, the assets are all 50/50, so it wouldn't have affected her 'income'.

 

[Porky1]

Yes fair enough. I just try to keep an open mind and stay objective as much as possible - it's a bit of a witch hunt overall (not specifically in here) with EP being scrutinised over her choice of pants, drink, purchasing take away food, complaining about prices, lack of make up. These points to me don't necessarily point to guilt (but can see how they complete part of the picture). It's innocent until proven guilty so there is no point to scrutinise the miniscule detail like colour of pants and make it mean something.

Thank you! I agree

 

[Warshawski]

I understand she didn’t have a great relationship with her mother who died of cancer, but do we know when her father died and what he died of?

Just from memory I think her father passed away in 2011 or thereabouts, from cancer.

 

[Detechtive]

I was hoping the jury would see this statement she sent to the police and media on August 14, 2023.

"'I now very much regret not answering some questions ... given the nightmare that this process has become,' she said.

'I am now wanting to clear up the record because I have become extremely stressed and overwhelmed by the deaths of my loved ones.

'I am hoping this statement might help in some way. I believe if people understood the background more, they would not be so quick to rush to judgement.

'I am now devastated to think that these mushrooms may have contributed to the illness suffered by my loved ones. I really want to repeat that I had absolutely no reason to hurt these people whom I loved.'​

I, I, I, I.

Also curious about why she refused to answer questions the police asked her.
I think the reason we haven't seen much from her police interview is because her lawyer was there and it was a no comment interview, largely.

Shock twist after mushroom poisoning as woman who cooked meal speaks

The woman who prepared a mushroom meal, which is thought to have caused the deaths of three individuals, says she purchased the mushrooms from both a supermarket and an Asian grocery store and was hospitalised herself after eating the meal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Kemug]

I wonder how long Erin and Simon had known each other before they married - "Marry in haste and repent at leisure" is still as true as when it was first coined, in about 1683.

 

[brisbanemum]

Yeah, but it isn't in a standard CS assessment.

The reason I think it wasn't including assets is because the CS assessment was returned quickly. Those change of assessments take months of review after the original assessment is done.

But also, the assets are all 50/50, so it wouldn't have affected her 'income'.

Yeah I see what you mean. I guess what really s***ts me is the pretty obvious greed. Squabbling over family tax benefit and child support when she could have, I don’t know, sold a property? Gotten a job? It’s not like her children are infants who require care. I’m really saddened to think that it’s possible 3 (almost 4) people died horrific deaths because of - at least in part - greed.

 

[Detechtive]

I wonder how long Erin and Simon had known each other before they married - "Marry in haste and repent at leisure" is still as true as when it was first coined, in about 1683.

7 years. I believe.

 

[Detechtive]

Yeah I see what you mean. I guess what really s***ts me is the pretty obvious greed. Squabbling over family tax benefit and child support when she could have, I don’t know, sold a property? Gotten a job? It’s not like her children are infants who require care. I’m really saddened to think that it’s possible 3 (almost 4) people died horrific deaths because of - at least in part - greed.

I agree, but so many are about money and greed.
IMO, money is just another word for power in most contexts. It is not like she was hard up and needed that 15k a year. I also believe if your child is over 8 (I think!?) you aren't eligible for any payments unless you do a course or work.

She didn't work at all since her children were born 15 or so years prior.

To me there is a lot of entitlement. Control. Etc here. Money is just another tool of acquiring all of those things.