Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[Detechtive]

My opinion is that legally it should be irrelevant whether she intended for all of them to die. If she used them on purpose, with the intention of causing significant harm and they died then she should face the full extent of the law.

But she will in that case. For murder in Victoria you only have to satisfy the jury that she meant to cause serious harm, and it qualifies as murder.

Murder is punishable by a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. To find a person guilty of murder, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused had the intention to kill the victim, cause the victim grievous bodily harm or had reckless indifference to human life.

Murder and Manslaughter (Vic) - Go To Court

There are a number of crimes relating to unlawful killing under Victorian criminal law. These include murder, manslaughter, constructive murder, single punch manslaughter and voluntary manslaughter. Different degrees of blameworthiness attach to different offences involving the death of a victim.

www.gotocourt.com.au

 

[MaxDecimus13]

But she will in that case. For murder in Victoria you only have to satisfy the jury that she meant to cause serious harm, and it qualifies as murder.

Murder is punishable by a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. To find a person guilty of murder, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused had the intention to kill the victim, cause the victim grievous bodily harm or had reckless indifference to human life.

Murder and Manslaughter (Vic) - Go To Court

There are a number of crimes relating to unlawful killing under Victorian criminal law. These include murder, manslaughter, constructive murder, single punch manslaughter and voluntary manslaughter. Different degrees of blameworthiness attach to different offences involving the death of a victim.

www.gotocourt.com.au

I suppose it would come under the grievous bodily harm and/or reckless indifference to life. If you use DC mushrooms knowing they cause death, even if you didn't expect all of them to die, then it doesn't feel much different to me.

It's like somebody shooting somebody in the torso and saying they were only hoping to harm them. If they catch a vital organ, you can hardly cry manslaughter IMO.

I get that legally this might be more tricky, just MOO.

 

[musicaljoke]

The DC mushrooms - it's been posted a few pages back upthread that experts say it would require 5g of DC to kill a 70kg person. 5g of regular fully hydrated mushroom or 5g of powder? As if it's 5g of powder that's a huge amount. Also all natural plants are irregular in quantity. To get 5g of powder in each person to kill them would be really difficult if the mushrooms are as pungent as speculated. Is this an error perhaps?

Following on from above question - is there going to be any facility in this case for the jury to consider that perhaps EP intended to seriously harm the victims but may not have imagined they'd die so immediately? As per what she'd possibly already done to SP? I'm asking that as surely everyone would be in agreement that her intention was to at least harm everyone?

JMO MOO

Half of a fresh mushroom can kill an adult and since it doesn't lose toxicity when heated or dried, this would be just a dusting of dehydrated mushrooms.


Madore, François; Bouchard, Josée (2019), "Plasmapheresis in Acute Intoxication and Poisoning", Critical Care Nephrology, Elsevier, pp. 595–600.e3, doi:10.1016/b978-0-323-44942-7.00100-x, ISBN 978-0-323-44942-7

 

[BreakingNews]

At the risk of getting eaten alive, I'm looking at this case purely through the eyes of the law. EP is presumed innocent until proven guilty and the onus is on the prosecution to prove her guilt. I have my personal views, but i will keep them to myself.
I'm very interested in the summing up and judges direction and how this turns out. I have no interest in this case except to see how the law works. Please don't make assumptions about me. I'm performing my own research.

 

[Detechtive]

At the risk of getting eaten alive, I'm looking at this case purely through the eyes of the law. EP is presumed innocent until proven guilty and the onus is on the prosecution to prove her guilt. I have my personal views, but i will keep them to myself.
I'm very interested in the summing up and judges direction and how this turns out. I have no interest in this case except to see how the law works. Please don't make assumptions about me. I'm performing my own research.

But I'm sure we all think that. She is innocent until proven guilty. We can still think that it looks one way without compromising on this crucial tenant of law.

 

[srper2]

It is interesting that there's no indication that she owned a dehydrator before.

Does death cap season coincide with SP's previous illness?

Was there evidence of when she purchased the dehydrator, or just when she disposed of it? Usually deathcaps and hallucinogenic mushrooms are out "between mothers day (May) and fathers day (September)", I remember an old emergency dept. nurses saying that was passed down at a hospital I worked at in the area. A pretty long growing time in the gippsland area over the cooler months, but they can grow all year round. If someone came in off their head or very sick and ppl unsure of the cause they would be asked if they had eaten any wild picked mushrooms. Unfortunately Erin lied and avoided telling the truth until it was to late. Psylocybe/Psylocybins and death caps grow all over Gippsland.

Deathcap (Amanita phalloides)

Amanita phalloides /æməˈnaɪtə fəˈlɔɪdiːz/, commonly known as the death cap, is a deadly poisonous basidiomycete fungus, one of many in the genus Amanita. Widely distributed across Europe, but now sprouting in other parts of the world, A. phalloides forms ectomycorrhizas with various broadleaved...

www.inaturalist.org

Psilocybe subaeruginosa

Psilocybe subaeruginosa is a potent psychedelic mushroom from Australasia and New Zealand, which has psilocybin and psilocin as its main active compounds. (Source: Wikipedia, '', http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_subaeruginosa, CC BY-SA 3.0 . Photo: no rights reserved, uploaded by Connor...

www.inaturalist.org

 

[JBowie]

the onus is on the prosecution to prove her guilt

Yep, and in this case the guilt has to be reasonably assessed from her behaviour. Getting a unanimous verdict in such cases is not an easy ask.

 

[srper2]

I wasn't impressed with Colin Manday SC's closing address to the jury and it has nothing to do with the fact that I believe Erin Patterson to be guilty.

Dr Rogers on the other hand slayed it!

Maybe he felt like he was attempting to defend the indefensible....

 

[Detechtive]

Was there evidence of when she purchased the dehydrator, or just when she disposed of it? Usually deathcaps and hallucinogenic mushrooms are out "between mothers day (May) and fathers day (September)", I remember an old emergency dept. nurses saying that was passed down at a hospital I worked at in the area. A pretty long growing time in the gippsland area over the cooler months, but they can grow all year round. If someone came in off their head or very sick and ppl unsure of the cause they would be asked if they had eaten any wild picked mushrooms. Unfortunately Erin lied and avoided telling the truth until it was to late. Psylocybe/Psylocybins and death caps grow all over Gippsland.

Deathcap (Amanita phalloides)

Amanita phalloides /æməˈnaɪtə fəˈlɔɪdiːz/, commonly known as the death cap, is a deadly poisonous basidiomycete fungus, one of many in the genus Amanita. Widely distributed across Europe, but now sprouting in other parts of the world, A. phalloides forms ectomycorrhizas with various broadleaved...

www.inaturalist.org

Psilocybe subaeruginosa

Psilocybe subaeruginosa is a potent psychedelic mushroom from Australasia and New Zealand, which has psilocybin and psilocin as its main active compounds. (Source: Wikipedia, '', http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_subaeruginosa, CC BY-SA 3.0 . Photo: no rights reserved, uploaded by Connor...

www.inaturalist.org

She purchased the Dehydrator on May 28, 2023.
She disposed of it on August 2, 2023.

 

[Kemug]

Mandy has an unenviable task here.

Poor chap.

 

[MrJ]

Innocent until proven guilty for sure. Confirmed liar though. Which doesn't help her case but doesn't mean she's guilty

 

[srper2]

She purchased the Dehydrator on May 28, 2023.
She disposed of it on August 2, 2023.

Thanks. So it was purchased for a purpose!

 

[Detechtive]

Thanks. So it was purchased for a purpose!

Well, between March and May she was already dehydrating mushrooms (in her oven) which she told her FB friends group. She told them she is hiding powdered mushrooms in her kids food.

But on May 28 which the prosecution allege is the day she visited Loch and found death caps (according to phone pings), she purchased the dehydrator that afternoon.

The timeline prosecutors alleged in the mushroom murder trial

Erin Patterson has been found guilty of murdering three people and attempting to murder a fourth. Here's what we know about the case, based on material put to the jury.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kemug]

4m ago06.31 BST
Mandy says Patterson only disposed of the dehydrator after the meal. He says if she planned to murder her lunch guests she would have disposed of the dehydrator well before the lunch.

RSBM
Could have, would have, should have.

 

[L_B]

Thanks. So it was purchased for a purpose!

and on the same day she allegedly visited a location that had death caps.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

But she will in that case. For murder in Victoria you only have to satisfy the jury that she meant to cause serious harm, and it qualifies as murder.

Murder is punishable by a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. To find a person guilty of murder, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused had the intention to kill the victim, cause the victim grievous bodily harm or had reckless indifference to human life.

Murder and Manslaughter (Vic) - Go To Court

There are a number of crimes relating to unlawful killing under Victorian criminal law. These include murder, manslaughter, constructive murder, single punch manslaughter and voluntary manslaughter. Different degrees of blameworthiness attach to different offences involving the death of a victim.

www.gotocourt.com.au

That's good to know.

 

[Klclevi]

<modsnip -quoted post was removed, referred to a copyrighted article with no link>

So anyone with half a brain knows you would not feed mushroom based anything to family members you had never had over for dinner before let alone wild ones! Seriously who takes that risk. Pretty much no one in this day and age with the amount of dietary things that are part of the norm these days (allergies, gluten intolerance u know the drill!). I find it strangely interesting this has surfaced today!

 

[Detechtive]

So anyone with half a brain knows you would not feed mushroom based anything to family members you had never had over for dinner before let alone wild ones! Seriously who takes that risk. Pretty much no one in this day and age with the amount of dietary things that are part of the norm these days (allergies, gluten intolerance). I find it strangely interesting this has surfaced today!

I am younger than Erin but growing up in rural NSW we were taught never to touch, let alone eat any wild mushrooms. It doesn't make sense to me why people would do this if they weren't very certain, IMO. It's like eating a typan snake without knowing how to properly cut out the venom sack, IMO.

 

[Klclevi]

I am younger than Erin but growing up in rural NSW we were taught never to touch, let alone eat any wild mushrooms. It doesn't make sense to me why people would do this if they weren't very certain, IMO. It's like eating a typan snake without knowing how to properly cut out the venom sack, IMO.

Same - have lived in Country Vic all my life - no way hosay.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I am younger than Erin but growing up in rural NSW we were taught never to touch, let alone eat any wild mushrooms. It doesn't make sense to me why people would do this if they weren't very certain, IMO. It's like eating a typan snake without knowing how to properly cut out the venom sack, IMO.

Well, as I've mentioned before when my brother and I were kids, my father regularly took us mushroom foraging. Back then though, there were less poisonous varieties around. I also foraged mushrooms when I was staying with my aunt in Devon, UK and in East Gippsland with my father. I'm still here to tell the story.