Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[Scuffy35]

I'm hoping they bring someone in to state if vomiting a few hours after the meal would have the effect EP states

And to also include how other factors may not have much impact or the fallacy of having more tolerance against the toxins. They could give a medical run down on how the toxins are very quickly absorbed into the blood stream and head straight to the live to kill liver cells.

 

[Scuffy35]

I notice the absence of victim impact statements from the trial, are these not usually presented to court during trials.

That is prior to sentencing if found guilty.

 

[Megnut]

The loss of these 3 beautiful people is just horrific (whether it was intentional or accidental). Having lost a parent of a similar age very unexpectedly and suddenly (due to natural causes), I cannot even fathom what the families who are left behind have been going through.
I notice the absence of victim impact statements from the trial, are these not usually presented to court during trials.

If it's like trials in the US, victim impact statements come in at sentencing.

 

[JBowie]

She meant to make them sick as 'punishment' for not taking her side In disagreements with SP/feeling pushed out

Merely making them sick with death cap mushrooms doesn't work for me. It's my suggestion that she would have well known that ingestion of even small amounts of the death cap toxin can be fatal -- the name death cap alone would make a normal person wary.

 

[mamamama9873]

That is prior to sentencing if found guilty.

Good to know!

 

[L_B]

(Via the ABC)

The four elements to murder are:

1. 1.Did Erin Patterson cause the deaths of the lunch guests? If the jury is satisfied of that, they can move on to number two;
2. 2.Did she do it deliberately? If they're satisfied of that, then they need to look at;
3. 3.Did she do it with an intention to kill them or to cause really serious injury — emphasis on the word really. If they're satisfied of that, we get to the final point;
4. 4.Did she commit the killing without a lawful justification or excuse, such as in self-defense, which is not relevant to this case.

Thank you! Something to mull over while we wait for the closing summaries.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Sooooooooooooo she admits there was EXTRA STEAKS.

And were they still in the freezer? Did the police check the fridge contents?

 

[Brooklyn127]

Good point. It's right there in the name. They aren't called 'might cause loose bowel movement caps' after all

How exactly were you friends with her? As a co-worker, a neighbor?
None of my business, no need to reply.
"Verified Friend" is good enough.

 

[katydid23]

My guess is that he'll be saying, inter alia, that a litany of lies does not necessarily automatically make a person guilty -- which may be true -- but it sure doesn't paint them as innocent either IMO.

Yes, the act of lying, in itself, does not make one guilty of murder.

It is the context of the lies that can tell a story, imo. In this case, the lies she told to the victims had an explicit purpose, according to her. She told us that she told the lies about having upcoming cancer treatments because she needed childcare help in the future because she had bariatric surgery scheduled. That is the context of the lies according to the defense.

If that^^^ had been true, then maybe some would accept it and sympathise with her----and it could add to possibility she was innocent, and the lies about cancer were successfully explained by her bariatric upcoming surgery.

HOWEVER, when it was revealed that there was no bariatric surgery scheduled and there never was, and all that was just more lies by her, piled up on the others---then more questions arise.

And the context of those lies then create a new narrative. It is no longer 'lies created to help her get childcare for upcoming surgery.'

Now it can possibly revert back to the original allegations by the prosecution---->>that the lies were told in order to lure 4 people to a luncheon at her home, where they were served death caps.

 

[MrJ]

I agree @katydid23 it’s not the act of lying in and of itself. But it’s the constant stream of lies and putting all all the other witnesses testimonies into question that raises eyebrows!

 

[JBowie]

And were they still in the freezer? Did the police check the fridge contents?

My guess would be definitely.

 

[JBowie]

One of the final topics Mandy asked his client was about her foraging for mushrooms.

Patterson said wild mushroom picking was only available in autumn and recalled foraging during those months “a handful” of times.

She also told the jury searches of the iNaturalist website found during a police search of her computer were most likely made by her, but she had no memory of doing so.

So, she concluded her evidence with yet another big fat lie.

 

[MrJ]

Throughout several days of cross-examination, Ms Patterson's voice largely remained level as she answered prosecutors' questions.

But during re-examination by her barrister, Colin Mandy SC, her voice became choked when asked about the need for her to pack her daughter's bag for a ballet rehearsal on the Monday after the lunch.

The prosecution asserted this was in fact never required, but Ms Patterson reaffirmed under re-examination that it was.

Ms Patterson's voice again cracked when discussing her son's flying lesson, explaining she did not cancel it following the lunch as he was "really passionate" about flying and "I just didn't want to disappoint him".

Erin Patterson denies using mobile phone factory resets to deceive police

The cook of the deadly beef Wellington lunch rejects a prosecution claim she carried out factory resets in a bid to deceive police about her mobile phones, as she finishes giving evidence in her triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

And were they still in the freezer? Did the police check the fridge contents?

The police took photos of the fridge, and they tested the gravy that they found in the fridge. I can't imagine they didn't look for all of the ingredients or anything related.



As she explained the layout, the jury was shown images of Patterson’s kitchen. The images include a photograph of a silver fridge with double doors, another of the RecipeTin Eats cookbook atop the counter by the stove, and a photo of a black shelf containing what appears to be scales and a white ceramic jug.

“I had two gravy pitchers, that was the second one,” Patterson said.

The other pitcher containing the leftover gravy from lunch was still in the fridge at the time the image was taken on August 5, 2023.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 26 as it happened: Mushroom cook says fear of estranged husband’s actions led to phone resets; details dumping food dehydrator at local tip after fatal lunch

Erin Patterson has told a court her estranged husband asked her if she had used a dehydrator to poison his parents, and admitted resetting her phone out of fear police would discover photos she had of foraged mushrooms.

www.smh.com.au

He told the court he was delivered the leftover beef Wellington on August 2, a fruit platter and jug of gravy on August 8 and seven vials of “material” from Ms Patterson’s dehydrator on August 11.

He told the jury the fruit platter was not tested, and no death cap DNA was found in the gravy.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-victorias-chief-toxicologist-tells-jury-death-cap-mushroom-toxins-found/news-story/bc0cf85ab7f3556ee2d53af9d133f308

 

[Brooklyn127]

The dinnerware, and cutlery, discussions were my favorite part of these threads.
I am kind of joking, but not really.
I mean, the whole plate thing was intrinsic to the case ( one of many intrinsic things, whatever that means.)
But to get to discuss tableware habits with Australians - thousand of miles away - was a huge treat. And we are not so different! (No elbows on table, e.g.)
Love it!

 

[Jess D]

Yes, the act of lying, in itself, does not make one guilty of murder.

It is the context of the lies that can tell a story, imo. In this case, the lies she told to the victims had an explicit purpose, according to her. She told us that she told the lies about having upcoming cancer treatments because she needed childcare help in the future because she had bariatric surgery scheduled. That is the context of the lies according to the defense.

If that^^^ had been true, then maybe some would accept it and sympathise with her----and it could add to possibility she was innocent, and the lies about cancer were successfully explained by her bariatric upcoming surgery.

HOWEVER, when it was revealed that there was no bariatric surgery scheduled and there never was, and all that was just more lies by her, piled up on the others---then more questions arise.

And the context of those lies then create a new narrative. It is no longer 'lies created to help her get childcare for upcoming surgery.'

Now it can possibly revert back to the original allegations by the prosecution---->>that the lies were told in order to lure 4 people to a luncheon at her home, where they were served death caps.

 

[Jess D]

DBM

 

[Jess D]

Dr Rogers: Christine McKenzie had posted on 18 April, 2023, that she saw death cap mushrooms growing under some oak trees at Loch. That iNaturalist post had four photos of the death cap mushrooms that she’d posted. I suggest that you read the Christine McKenzie post. Agree or disagree?

Ms Patterson: Disagree.

Dr Rogers: I suggest that you drove to Loch from your house in Leongatha to specifically find death cap mushrooms on 28th April. Agree, or disagree?

Ms Patterson: Disagree.

Dr Rogers: And I suggest that you found some.

Ms Patterson: Disagree.

Dr Rogers: And I suggest that within hours of finding them you drove to the Hartley Wells and bought a dehydrator.

Ms Patterson: I did buy that that day, yes

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/crime/mushroom-murder-trial-prosecutors-intensify-case-as-crossexamination-of-erin-patterson-continues-in-regional-victoria/news-story/0459c4c06ddc6e7f6f91a8b57820744c

She hasn't actually admitted to picking the Death Caps at all has she, even accidentally?

 

[Brooklyn127]

She hasn't actually admitted to picking the Death Caps at all has she, even accidentally?

Believe not. But whoever picked them, she was the 'keeper of the dehydrator.' So, if there were any suspicious mushrooms going into there, they should have been tossed.

 

[brisbanemum]

Someone just raised this point which I thought was very apt:

“Incredible that Erin's personal defence relied exclusively on her word. Her word which, by her own admission, has a persistent pattern of deceit and attempted manipulation.

She raised no corroborating evidence for any of her claims.

There was no reference to the testimony of others or evidence collected which may show internal inconsistencies with the prosecutor's interpretations or where others had made comments which may support her defence.

Not a single person has come forth to vouch for any suggestion of her innocence, even if the relationship was merely incidental.

Of everything available for Erin to bring forth in her defence, only her word was called on. Word which is consistently inconsistent with the testimony of everyone else.

Incredible.”