Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

a post lunch AMA?

Isn't that what Dr Rogers has just been at for the last few days?

 

[Detechtive]

Poor Doctor Rogers. She looks exhausted.

 

[mamamama9873]

I am too. Three people have died, Ian most likely still very unwell and she's holding QandA sessions like an influencer on YouTube.

I bet she loved the attention IMO

 

[Klclevi]

There's a YouTube video of Ron Tanner talking about the book "Blackened Tanner" written by his mate, another former cop. Maybe you could start a thread on the case

Any thoughts on what category i would start it under? (sorry fairly new to this!)

 

[Klclevi]

Poor Doctor Rogers. She looks exhausted.

She does - absolutely.

 

[BreakingNews]

It depends firstly whether manslaughter is 'on the table'.

I believe in Victoria, that a majority verdict is possible in a manslaughter case - so, 11 jurors only need to agree on manslaughter after a minimum of 6 hours of deliberation.
They either need 12 for murder, or 11 for manslaughter if that is an option allowed - which I don't think we will know until the judge instructs the jury before deliberations. IMO

This practice is governed by the Juries Act 2000 (Vic), which outlines the conditions under which majority verdicts are permissible in criminal trials.

Procedure When Unanimity Isn't Achieved (Manslaughter)
Initial Deliberation: The jury attempts to reach a unanimous verdict.

Judge's Direction: If unanimity isn't achieved after six hours, the judge may direct the jury that a majority verdict is acceptable.

Outcome:

Majority Verdict Reached: The verdict is accepted and recorded.

No Majority Verdict: If the jury cannot reach a majority verdict, the judge may declare a hung jury, leading to the possibility of a retrial.

Manslaughter Trials: Majority verdicts (11–1) are allowed after six hours of deliberation.

*Not a lawyer.

Jury trial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

With respect, I pointed out earlier in this case that the 6 hour limit is not correct. Believe me, the jury won't have even sorted the exhibits in 6 hours! Sometimes a judge can give a time limit after a jury says it can't reach a unanimous decision, but in murder trials they rarely put a time limit on it.

JURIES ACT 2000 - SECT 46 Failure to reach unanimous verdict in criminal trials

classic.austlii.edu.au

 

[Klclevi]

I am too. Three people have died, Ian most likely still very unwell and she's holding QandA sessions like an influencer on YouTube.

Thats just it. Ian is still alive. Ian and Simon (and extended family). She held an AMA on social media knowing 3 members of her family and her kids grandparents were dead and an extremely unwell other one? Who the hell does that !!

 

[Klclevi]

Isn't that what Dr Rogers has just been at for the last few days?

completely missed it

 

[L_B]

I can't believe she had the audacity to have an AMA. Crazy. Thanks for all you have shared so far @Detechtive

 

[JBowie]

Any thoughts on what category i would start it under? (sorry fairly new to this!)

Suggest sending a PM about that to moderator Sillybilly (Yes, that's their username).

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I'm leaning towards manslaughter if it's on the table. I hope it's a stronger verdict.

Manslaughter in this case would essentially mean innocence for EP, as it would absolve her of intent. It would also suggest that her subsequent actions were about damage limitation rather than hiding guilt.

I do still think this is a possibility, but there are an awful lot of coincidences and implausible scenarios that would need to be believed.

 

[Warshawski]

Still doesn't explain where it mysteriously vanished to between August 5 and the tech dog search in November.

In a kids school bag may be .. .

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Sighs after accused killer cook Erin Patterson is asked three final questions​

By​

Accused triple murderer Erin Patterson turned to thank the judge as she left the witness box for the final time after eight days of grilling.

Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers, SC, had finished with three questions that got to the heart of the case after 31 days in courtroom four of the Supreme Court sitting at Morwell.

Nanette Rogers, SC, has concluded her cross-examination of Erin Patterson.Credit:Marija Ercegovac

Sighs could be heard from the packed public court, and from some of the 14 jurors. Relief in the form of tears also spread across Patterson’s face as she sat, dressed in a navy and white spotted top, with tissues in her right hand.

“You’ll be relieved to know I’ve only got three final questions,” Rogers announced at 11.35am.

“I suggest that you deliberately sourced death cap mushrooms in 2023. I suggest you deliberately included them in the beef Wellington you served to [your four guests]. You did so intending to kill them.

“Disagree,” Patterson replied three times, after each accusation.

Patterson is accused of murdering her in-laws, Don and Gail Patterson, and Gail’s sister, Heather Wilkinson, by serving them death cap mushrooms in a beef Wellington meal at her Leongatha home on July 29, 2023.

Don and Gail Patterson and Heather Wilkinson died in the days after the lunch from the effects of mushroom poisoning. Heather’s husband, Ian, also ate the lunch, but survived after weeks in hospital.

Patterson has pleaded not guilty to three counts of murder and one of attempted murder in the Supreme Court at Morwell, claiming it was all a terrible accident.


Three final questions from the Crown
The Crown prosecutor declares that she has three final questions for the accused.
Dr Rogers: I suggest that you deliberately sourced death cap mushrooms in 2023, agree or disagree?
Erin: Disagree.
Dr Rogers: I suggest that you deliberately included them in the beef wellington you served Donald Patterson, Gail Patterson, Ian Wilkinson and Heather Wilkinson, agree or disagree?
Erin: Disagree.
Dr Rogers: And you did so intending to kill them, agree or disagree?
Erin: Disagree.
Dr Rogers: No further questions.


The jury's left for the day, to allow legal discussions to take place.

In the coming days, there'll be closing arguments from both sides and final instructions from the judge to the jury before they begin deliberating to reach a verdict.

Last week, Justice Christopher Beale indicated getting through all of the above could push things towards the end of June.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Yes she will.

If she gets off don't accept a dinner invitation.

 

[Brooklyn127]

Manslaughter in this case would essentially mean innocence for EP, as it would absolve her of intent. It would also suggest that her subsequent actions were about damage limitation rather than hiding guilt.

I do still think this is a possibility, but there are an awful lot of coincidences and implausible scenarios that would need to be believed.

Totally agree. But her getting completely off would be worse.
It would also not necessarily imply complete innocence. Just that intent could not be proven.

 

[Klclevi]

Suggest sending a PM about that to moderator Sillybilly (Yes, that's their username).

thankyou ha ha I actually just put it up I hope its ok!

K

Found Deceased Thread 'Jennifer Tanner, 27, Bonnie Doon , 10th Nov 1984'

Yesterday at 6:00 AM

Jennifer Ruth Tanner died on the 10th November 1984 at her farm at Bonnie Doon - Victoria Australia , due to two gunshots to the brain - and one gunshot on each hand, between the index finger and thumb . It was ruled that Jennifer committed suicide , however it is also alleged that she was murdered. The main suspect for her murder has been her brother-in-law, (a former Victorian policeman), who is also said to also be associated in the killing of a New Zealand transsexual sex worker, Adele Bailey (disappeared 1978, St Kilda). Adele Bailey’s remains were uncovered in a mine shaft at Donnie...

• Klclevi
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Australia

• 

 

[JBowie]

thankyou ha ha I actually just put it up I hope its ok!

K

Found Deceased Thread 'Jennifer Tanner, 27, Bonnie Doon , 10th Nov 1984'

Yesterday at 6:00 AM

Jennifer Ruth Tanner died on the 10th November 1984 at her farm at Bonnie Doon - Victoria Australia , due to two gunshots to the brain - and one gunshot on each hand, between the index finger and thumb . It was ruled that Jennifer committed suicide , however it is also alleged that she was murdered. The main suspect for her murder has been her brother-in-law, (a former Victorian policeman), who is also said to also be associated in the killing of a New Zealand transsexual sex worker, Adele Bailey (disappeared 1978, St Kilda). Adele Bailey’s remains were uncovered in a mine shaft at Donnie...

• Klclevi
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Australia

• 

I've just been reading about the associated Adele Bailey murder. That is a very intriguing case, indeed.

 

[Brooklyn127]

Manslaughter in this case would essentially mean innocence for EP, as it would absolve her of intent. It would also suggest that her subsequent actions were about damage limitation rather than hiding guilt.

I do still think this is a possibility, but there are an awful lot of coincidences and implausible scenarios that would need to be believed.

That, and damage control looks very much like what she was doing.

 

[Old Soul]

OMG ARE YOU SERIOUS!! No way. a post lunch AMA? WTF

Yep! In writing, of all things..

What better than a post lunch AMA with a bunch of internet sleuths to help find out what questions she might be asked by investigators so she can plug any holes in her story. Very crafty and brazen IMO.

I have a few questions but completely understand if you’d prefer not to answer.

I’m guessing there were questions about foraging….how did she answer those at that stage?

Can I ask, was this AMA before she released her revised statement adding the Asian grocery purchase to the story?

Was she lapping up the sympathy? Was anyone brave enough to challenge her?

Thanks for all of your illuminating insights into her character and behaviour thus far.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Isn't that what Dr Rogers has just been at for the last few days?

She won't want to see any more mushrooms