Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[Spectrix]

Since the jury will be sequestered, I wonder what happens on the weekend? Will they still be deliberating? Playing Monopoly? Baking?

Cooking classes with Erin?

They will have closing statements and judges directions to the jury, before deliberations.
That might be three days or more before deliberations.

 

[MrJ]

Apparently there's no court today. Now I'm gonna have to go outside. Outrageous!

 

[BreakingNews]

Sorry to quote Erin but "incorrect" . With anything other than murder in Victoria, a majority verdict applies - that is, 6 hours of deliberation can result in a majority verdict (11-1) for manslaughter (not murder, though). Manslaughter is on the table with a murder charge in Victoria, unless it is taken off by the judge after hearing arguments from both sides prior to jury deliberations.

We actually agree - there just seems to have been a miscommunication

When Is a Majority Verdict Allowed?
A majority verdict—where 11 out of 12 jurors agree—can be accepted in manslaughter trials if:

The jury has deliberated for at least 6 hours without reaching a unanimous decision.

The judge is satisfied that a unanimous verdict is unlikely to be reached.
brydens.com.au

This provision aims to prevent mistrials due to a single dissenting juror when the majority are in agreement.
www5.austlii.edu.au

Exceptions: When Is a Majority Verdict Not Permitted?
Majority verdicts are not allowed in trials for:

Murder

Treason

Certain serious drug offences under sections 71 and 72 of the Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981
supremecourt.vic.gov.au

Commonwealth offences

In these cases, a unanimous verdict is required.

https://www.brydens.com.au/resource...-when-a-jury-cannot-reach-a-unanimous-verdict

I agree with you. I was only looking at a murder trial, with manslaughter taken off the table. What I read did not mention 6 hours in a manslaughter trial. I read that the Judge may state a "reasonable time" for a verdict AFTER deadlock has been reached. Jury's should be able to take all the time they need before they declare deadlocked. Then maybe a time limit.
Being a juror on a renown murder trial can be extremely stressful for members who have no one else to talk to other than each other. I would not wish it on my worst enemy. But an interesting group dynamics process.

 

[Bats]

DBM

 

[MrJ]

What nailed her, IMO, is her string of lies and her attempts to dispose of the evidence.

I find it funny that Erin was someone who loved true crime and discussing cases, but it appears that in her own hubris, again, I must stress if she is found guilty, she forgot that eventually, somebody starts investigating. Like, look at the Stephanie Lazarus case. Decades went by before there was even an investigation. The point has been made before that if the victims hadn't gone to hospital early, the doctors may not have found the source of their illness, and EP might've escaped suspicion. What ultimately brought charges was the evidence in the end. True Crime 101: you won't get away with the (alleged) crime

 

[BreakingNews]

Seriously though, If there was to be a second trial due to a mistrial, she would have learned from all her mistakes, craft a new set of lies to better fit, and most importantly, she wouldn't be giving evidence in the witness box next time.

I am guessing that all witness testimony evidence, including hers from the first trial, would be wiped clean and could not be used against her if it went to a second trial?

The prosecution, unless they find the elusive smoking gun type of evidence, might decide not to go to another trial.

A second trial would also occur in a hung jury. That would probably take another year. Nothing from this trial can be used. A brand new trial. Starting from go again.
I've just eaten my mushrooms on toast for breakfast. Yum.

 

[Lisa4]

My opinion is that if EP is not guilty, should she just have said she did it, just to spare her children from any upset in their lives.

I don't think so.

Any innocent person in these circumstances would, knowing otherwise they could not live with themselves for the rest of their lives.

Of course if EP is not guilty, she should not have said she did it. That would not have spared her children any upset at all. I am laughing in bemused perplexity at the very suggestion?!

If she is innocent, she has shown me she is quick thinking enough to have immediately thought of the mushrooms she added, and so she should have "said she did" ie flagged that she had added some other suspect mushrooms, on that Monday morning.

 

[Spectrix]

Which is why I am wondering if they will be sent in Monday week? 23rd June.

Got it, yeah that is a good point. Will be interesting to see how the judge schedules it.

 

[Spectrix]

Where did you see this info about the crack in phone A?
I thought I read something previously about her replacing another old phone with phone A in late 2022 or early 2023, because the screen was cracked.

Not cracked, frozen I believe. That could mean not responding to touch, for instance.
And you're right, pretty sure phone A was replacing that one.

 

[BreakingNews]

I'm thinking that if they haven't made up their minds by now they never will.

For that reason, l'm expecting a quick turnaround with a guilty verdict.

It will largely depend on what the judge tells them to look at. It's not as simple as hands up who things she is guilty in the first 10 minutes of deliberation. The jury will have to do their due diligence and if too quick, an appeal is likely and might even lead to a retrial. No one knows other that the 12 jurors how a decision is reached. I have been on several trials. Murder, fraud, drugs, hit and run. In the fraud charge we all knew he was guilty of every charge, but as the law goes, we had to say not guilty for 4 of the 7 charges.

 

[BreakingNews]

Interesting. You couldn't do this research in the UK or, I believe, Australia, because jurors are prohibited from discussing their deliberations or reasoning even after the trial - it would be a criminal offence to do so.

Exactly. However it hasn't always been like that in Australia. We were advised generally not to talk, but the judge also admitted he could not stop us legally. It is usually about the deliberation process and how the verdict was reached. That always remains confidential

 

[L_B]

I've been following her testimony in the news - by disputing her kids' testimony and statements, she actually accuses her own children of lying? This will haunt them forever.

So not just the trauma of their grandparents and extended family members dying, but also the trauma of the mother going through a trial, and the trauma of her going to jail (if found guilty), but pile on the trauma of their mother calling them liars. You could also add the trauma of their dad nearly dying and knowing the police suspected their mother at one stage of causing that too. Those poor kids will need counselling for life.

Where did you see this info about the crack in phone A?
I thought I read something previously about her replacing another old phone with phone A in late 2022 or early 2023, because the screen was cracked.

The ABC podcast from last night mentioned the cracked phone, and it was "Phone A" that she said that was cracked, so that's why she switched over to Phone B. But then prosecution came out with the logs which showed she had still been using Phone A when she claimed she wasn't...

 

[CityKid]

Yes, and I think it started from the very beginning because she wouldn't tell Police what she served, etc. I just can't imagine giving a no comment to police and immediately lawyering up when your 4 relatives are in ICU after dining at your house.

"Originally Patterson gave a no comment interview to police at the start of their investigation"

Australian police blast media over 'unhelpful' reporting of Erin Patterson poisoned mushroom case

Detectives probing the death of three people following a poisonous mushroom lunch say the leaking of chef Erin Patterson's police statement has been "unhelpful" and hampered investigators.

www.lbc.co.uk

I know @Detechtive said she EP was intelligent, but IMO it seems her other traits (hubris, narcissism etc.) outweighed any smarts from the beginning. I'd posted here what seems like ages ago that had she said she foraged and feigned shock that she might have sickened her guests, she might have saved her victims. (Although I wonder if at that point, police might have taken a deeper dive into SP's previous sicknesses...)

 

[Jake18]

I've been following her testimony in the news - by disputing her kids' testimony and statements, she actually accuses her own children of lying? This will haunt them forever.

It will. And they’ll doubt themselves, and if Erin is found guilty they’ll blame themselves as well.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank you - I am so confused over the phone stories.. I need to get my head around it! Crazy making!

Have a listen to the podcast, from about the 6:50 mark. (I haven't listened to the whole piece yet.)
They say that Dr Rogers spent the most time on the phone subject yesterday - an hour to two hours.
Phone A is described as the phone in the pink case that Erin was using at the hospital.

Phone A: "There was damage to the screen that made it non-responsive at times." Erin's answer as to why she changed the handset eventually.

Erin Patterson's final words to the jury - ABC listen

The defence rested its case today after arguing a final point about the Enrich clinic where Erin Patterson claimed she was pursuing weight loss surgery in 2023. In today's episode Rachael Brown and Stephen Stockwell take you through the last of the prosecution's challenges and the defence's...

www.abc.net.au

 

[ch_13]

I've been trying to think of ways it could have been more plausibly explained (if it was intentional), but none of the ways make sense. If it was one person at a time, over an extended period, it wouldn't been suspicious IMO, but there was always going to be an intense focus and investigation on a death which killed 3,4,5 people. IMO

I was thinking she could have tried to say something like this:

"I made the duxelles, and assembled the first BW. After that, I realized that I wouldn't have enough of the mushroom mixture to fill all the remaining five. So, I pulled these old dehydrated mushrooms out of my pantry and added them to the mix. It's just random chance that I got the toxin-free one."

I'm sure there would still be suspicions. But if she admitted the foraging and didn't try to get rid of the dehydrator, all the prosecution would really have is the iNaturalist searches and her allegedly visiting the death cap locations. it would be pretty difficult to prove she did it intentionally.

 

[ellyvantelli]

Oh yeah I agree with you. I just meant that I do personally believe the clinic offered that service in 2023. But regardless it doesn't really help her original claim the cancer lie was to cover up for a bypass, that somehow was mistaken for lipo.
Maybe with her hospital aversion she hoped that she could bypass (haha) the usual route of seeing a surgeon and get it done at a cosmetic clinic instead.

Haven’t really managed to catch up across all the media re yesterday’s final testimony, so it’s difficult to know how much detail was actually gone into in court from the live threads I’ve seen so far.

I know that Mr Mandy cleared up on re-direct that Erin did really have an appointment with a Dr Priscilla Auyeung of Enrich Clinic for Sept 2023 which was subsequently cancelled:

Mr Mandy now shows the jury a screenshot of the ENRICH Clinic website, dated yesterday (June 11).
The image confirms the clinic had previously offered liposuction, but would be ceasing to do so from June 30, 2024.
Mr Mandy: Do you accept now that you were mistaken about the ENRICH Clinic offering gastric bypass surgery?
Erin: Yes, I was obviously mistaken.
The jury is shown a record of a text message confirming Erin’s appointment at the clinic with Priscilla Auyeung, which she confirms was cancelled on September 11, 2023.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-accused-back-on-the-stand-to-face-fifth-day-of-crossexamination/live-coverage/d1ce3d55d3ef30510fa9ce629604eec9

But do we know from any of the media reports if he clarified to the jury that Dr Auyeung is an Allergist not a cosmetic physician?

Dr. Priscilla Auyeung

Dr Auyeung offers allergy testing & manages all facets of allergic disorders, including allergic rhinitis (hayfever), food allergy, urticaria (hives) & more.

www.enrichclinic.com.au

 

[Jess D]

I do think people maybe use their dislike of Erin and suspicion of what she has done, to cloud their opinions on things that are actually not that bad.

If I had innocently caused the deaths of 3 people, and I was an international news story I would inevitably be getting bombarded with messages from friends and relatives. I can imagine thinking that it would be a good idea to address questions to everyone all at once, in the hope that it would allay their fears and stop rumours being spread.

I wouldn't call it an AMA (although I'm not sure it has been claimed that it actually was) because that gives the impression of levity in what is a very serious situation.

Not everything she does is going to be psychotic or narcissistic.

 

[Montrealaise]

Amazing she did all that without the children noticing.

Oh, but her children are liars, according to Erin!

 

[MrJ]

Haven’t really managed to catch up across all the media re yesterday’s final testimony, so it’s difficult to know how much detail was actually gone into in court from the live threads I’ve seen so far.

I know that Mr Mandy cleared up on re-direct that Erin did really have an appointment with a Dr Priscilla Auyeung of Enrich Clinic for Sept 2023 which was subsequently cancelled:

Mr Mandy now shows the jury a screenshot of the ENRICH Clinic website, dated yesterday (June 11).
The image confirms the clinic had previously offered liposuction, but would be ceasing to do so from June 30, 2024.
Mr Mandy: Do you accept now that you were mistaken about the ENRICH Clinic offering gastric bypass surgery?
Erin: Yes, I was obviously mistaken.
The jury is shown a record of a text message confirming Erin’s appointment at the clinic with Priscilla Auyeung, which she confirms was cancelled on September 11, 2023.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-accused-back-on-the-stand-to-face-fifth-day-of-crossexamination/live-coverage/d1ce3d55d3ef30510fa9ce629604eec9

But do we know from any of the media reports if he clarified to the jury that Dr Auyeung is an Allergist not a cosmetic physician?

Dr. Priscilla Auyeung

Dr Auyeung offers allergy testing & manages all facets of allergic disorders, including allergic rhinitis (hayfever), food allergy, urticaria (hives) & more.

www.enrichclinic.com.au

Great sleuthing. I wonder why Erin would have an appointment with an allergist if she was having a gastric bypass or liposuction