Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[Megnut]

Great sleuthing. I wonder why Erin would have an appointment with an allergist if she was having a gastric bypass or liposuction

Allergic to the truth? Looking for some kind of salve?

 

[JBowie]

Great sleuthing. I wonder why Erin would have an appointment with an allergist if she was having a gastric bypass or liposuction

I think the reason proffered was that ENRICH once offered fat reduction liposuction but no longer does?

 

[Cliff Hardy]

It will largely depend on what the judge tells them to look at. It's not as simple as hands up who things she is guilty in the first 10 minutes of deliberation. The jury will have to do their due diligence and if too quick, an appeal is likely and might even lead to a retrial. No one knows other that the 12 jurors how a decision is reached. I have been on several trials. Murder, fraud, drugs, hit and run. In the fraud charge we all knew he was guilty of every charge, but as the law goes, we had to say not guilty for 4 of the 7 charges.

I'm not suggesting for a second the jury won't do their due diligence but the reality is, juries aren't made up of legal analysts. Crikies, when I served on a case years ago, I was an immature, single, early 20s guy with no responsibilities, who lived to play sport with his mates and then see who could drink the most afterwards.

Unless things have changed dramatically since I served, the jurors will have been gaining their own individual impressions and sharing them with each other, on and off in the jury room for the over 6 weeks that this case has been progressing.

Yes, the jurors will follow the judges instructions but these people are nothing more or less than random, rank and file members of the public and as such will likely use their heads and their hearts in equal parts and be largely guided by gut feeling in arriving at their own individual verdicts. Then they will be influenced by other jurors as they work towards a unanimous verdict. That was my experience when I served for 13 days.

 

[MrJ]

I think the reason proffered was that ENRICH once offered fat reduction liposuction but no longer does?

Are the defence saying she was involved in cosmetic surgery? I’m not following their line of reasoning

 

[JBowie]

Are the defence saying she was involved in cosmetic surgery? I’m not following their line of reasoning

I don't think we've been told why she made (and then cancelled) the appointment.

This from their current website. Note that it mentions fat reduction [bbm]:

About ENRICH​

ENRICH is an aesthetic, cosmetic and dermatology clinic in Melbourne that treats hundreds of patients every year for conditions ranging from eczema to acne, wrinkles to pigmentation, spider veins to intimate issues, fat reduction to dermal treatments, snoring to sweating and more.

What we do at ENRICH Clinic​

We practice aesthetic treatment, surgical dermatology, clinical dermatology and all facets of skin health. At ENRICH, our cosmetic doctors perform a range of dermal and laser treatments to help reduce wrinkles and fine lines, plump skin, and help reduce the effects of aging on skin. Our nurse team are well-versed in our lasers, peels and a range of other aesthetic and no downtime procedures.

Cosmetic Dermatology Clinic Melbourne | Cosmetic Surgery Clinic Melbourne

Enrich specialises in a range of cosmetic, medical and surgical treatments at our dermatology clinic in Melbourne. Book a consultation today.

www.enrichclinic.com.au

 

[LinasK]

I find it funny that Erin was someone who loved true crime and discussing cases, but it appears that in her own hubris, again, I must stress if she is found guilty, she forgot that eventually, somebody starts investigating. Like, look at the Stephanie Lazarus case. Decades went by before there was even an investigation. The point has been made before that if the victims hadn't gone to hospital early, the doctors may not have found the source of their illness, and EP might've escaped suspicion. What ultimately brought charges was the evidence in the end. True Crime 101: you won't get away with the (alleged) crime

Because Stephanie Lazarus was one of their own, she staged it to look like a burglary, and the original detectives were too lazy to look beyond that theory and listen to Sherri's families suspicions about her.

 

[LinasK]

I've been trying to think of ways it could have been more plausibly explained (if it was intentional), but none of the ways make sense. If it was one person at a time, over an extended period, it wouldn't been suspicious IMO, but there was always going to be an intense focus and investigation on a death which killed 3,4,5 people. IMO

She didn't think that part through. Her backup plan was to blame the food supply chain- the mysterious "Asian" grocer for supplying an unsuspecting Erin with Death Caps.

 

[LinasK]

I was thinking she could have tried to say something like this:

"I made the duxelles, and assembled the first BW. After that, I realized that I wouldn't have enough of the mushroom mixture to fill all the remaining five. So, I pulled these old dehydrated mushrooms out of my pantry and added them to the mix. It's just random chance that I got the toxin-free one."

I'm sure there would still be suspicions. But if she admitted the foraging and didn't try to get rid of the dehydrator, all the prosecution would really have is the iNaturalist searches and her allegedly visiting the death cap locations. it would be pretty difficult to prove she did it intentionally.

I think those last two fact alone are pretty damning.

 

[ellyvantelli]

I don't think we've been told why she made (and then cancelled) the appointment.

This from their current website. Note that it mentions fat reduction [bbm]:

About ENRICH​

(snipped by me)

Cosmetic Dermatology Clinic Melbourne | Cosmetic Surgery Clinic Melbourne

Enrich specialises in a range of cosmetic, medical and surgical treatments at our dermatology clinic in Melbourne. Book a consultation today.

www.enrichclinic.com.au

Agreed that is what their website talks about.

My point was that the evidence given in court yesterday was that Erin's appointment was to consult Dr Auyeung who, unlike all her other colleagues at Enrich who are dermatologists & cosmetic physicians, specifically focuses on treating patients with allergy issues which suggests it is unlikely she was ever involved in liposuction procedures even when the clinic used to offer it.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Are jurors allowed to take notes during the trial? With the amount of info that is dumped on them, I feel it would be hard to keep it all without forgetting bits here and there

 

[Bats]

Are jurors allowed to take notes during the trial? With the amount of info that is dumped on them, I feel it would be hard to keep it all without forgetting bits here and there

Yes, they sure can.

They will also probably have a white board in their little room.

All their notes will be taken off them at the end of the trial and they're not allowed to take notes home with them each day.

Edit: They also have access to the complete transcript of the the trial. All the witness's testimonies, every word spoken. All the videos, photos etc...

 

[Jess D]

Erin Patterson's final words to the jury​

 

[L_B]

(snipped by me)

Agreed that is what their website talks about.

My point was that the evidence given in court yesterday was that Erin's appointment was to consult Dr Auyeung who, unlike all her other colleagues at Enrich who are dermatologists & cosmetic physicians, specifically focuses on treating patients with allergy issues which suggests it is unlikely she was ever involved in liposuction procedures even when the clinic used to offer it.

I did think that the prosecution evidence with the letter from the clinic claiming they don't offer liposuction added to the confusion - so they did offer it at the time Erin booked her appointment, but the letter claimed they don't offer it. It was like they wrote the letter as of the "current state" and didn't mention they had "previously" offered it. I think that is why the defense came back to clarify it was an option in 2023, but now is no longer. A mistake on the prosecution IMO for allowing this confusion.

That is very interesting pickup on the Dr she had booked in was not the Dr that offered the lipo treatment....

 

[JBowie]

I did think that the prosecution evidence with the letter from the clinic claiming they don't offer liposuction added to the confusion - so they did offer it at the time Erin booked her appointment, but the letter claimed they don't offer it.

Yet, as I showed above, their current website lists "fat reduction" (whatever that means) as a service, so it's still confusing IMO.

 

[Jess D]

Erin Patterson says doctors and her own kids are wrong​

The Australian

 

[Eloise]

fat reduction

Its probably something like Fat Reduction | Non Surgical | Sydney | Elite Body Contouring

Enrich definitely do not offer lipo: No longer performing Liposuction

 

[L_B]

Yet, as I showed above, their current website lists "fat reduction" (whatever that means) as a service, so it's still confusing IMO.

Back when the name came out of the clinic I copy/paste their about us page to here which said they offered lipo, then someone later picked up it wasn't offered. So they have terrible website management it seems, confusing when they have conflicting information available

 

[Megnut]

That is a really good point!

Priscilla is an Allergy Specialist in Melbourne. She sees adults and adolescents (13 years or older) with allergic disorders, including allergic rhinitis, food allergy, urticaria, angioedema, anaphylaxis, drug allergy and eczema.

Dr Priscilla Auyeung - Epworth HealthCare

Find an Epworth doctor for your health needs. Make a referral & appointment across various consulting locations.

www.epworth.org.au

Erin has eczema.

On her.... elbow.

 

[Shortfusepsb]

Wow that is so spot on for the person I knew.

I think I'd add a last line -

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
But it didn't happen.

I didn’t do it, that’s my plea,
Though all the facts point back to me.
If lies were coins, I’d be quite rich,
With every tale a perfect glitch.

The plate was black, or maybe red?
Or kindergarten art instead?
I served them all with love and flair,
Except the ones I didn't spare.

I Googled things? That can’t be right.
Unless I searched them late at night.
If someone did, well, maybe me
But only out of pure esprit!

The cake I ate, the trip to Tyabb,
The vomiting, a mere confab.
I couldn’t tell you what I said
My memory lives half-alive, half-dead.

I fled the ward, ignored the doc,
But not on purpose, ticked the clock.
Each version flexes, bends, and sways,
A new excuse for each new phase.

My tears appear when I’m in need,
To plant a sympathetic seed.
But if you press, my face will harden
I’m really just a fragile garden.

So judge me not, or if you do,
Remember, I’m the victim too.
It’s not my fault, I swear, I’m blessed
Just cursed with lies that won’t confess.

 

[ch_13]

Not many people would keep the paper receipt; Woolies could probably search through "all" the transactions but the easiest way to associate a purchase to a specifc user would be to check if their rewards account had any transactions for that time and pull the records that way.

As smart as EP may be, she doesn't seem to have a good understanding of how a digital footprint can track one's activities.

Hypothetically speaking, if she was using the extra mushrooms for practice, she should have just paid in cash with no rewards card. Similarly, she could have used private mode and/or a VPN to hide any internet activities. And also left her phone turned off when mushroom hunting.


Edit - Honestly, it's quite disappointing that a true crime fan would miss this. I hope if any of you are planning a "perfect crime" you will do better.