Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[SouthAussie]

Can I ask the Aussies about the prosecution's cross of Patterson? I'm puzzled by it. It seems Rogers simply posed "I suggest" statements, and EP either agreed or disagreed. We see that repeatedly. I don't remember Rogers asking any straightforward questions, she just basically made allegations and let EP respond.

Is this a quirk of Rogers' style of cross, or is there a prescribed pattern for the cross of a defendant in Australia (or maybe just Victoria?)

I noticed that the defence team used the "I suggest" thing, too. When they were questioning Ian Wilkinson, Simon Patterson and others some weeks ago. Both Colin Mandy and his co-counsel (Stafford) were doing it.


Eg:
Mandy suggested to Wilkinson that Patterson did not, in fact, have a set of four grey plates, and told the court no grey or stone plates had been found at her house.
Mushroom lunch’s sole surviving guest details deadly meal

Regarding the conversation on Sunday, Stafford tells Cripps that Patterson “did not tell you that Simon had told her that the others were unwell at that time”. Cripps replies: You can suggest it but I’m certain.
Erin Patterson trial day 12 – as it happened

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I agree but at that stage it was a public health issue in order to save people’s lives, rather than a crime investigation.

I think it would be like if a nurse accidentally administered the wrong drug to a patient and the doctors urgently needed to know what kind of drug they administered because it’s time critical, and instead they say no comment forcing the doctors to guess.

Obviously medical personnel have a duty of care greater than a lunch host but she still had a duty of care to cooperate IMO.

I totally agree it was public health issue. She could quite easily have given all the necessary details to medical staff from the second she was asked for them (or even volunteered the info beforehand), yet still lawyered up and given a no comment interview to police, as I think the first time they took her in for questioning was August 5th. Well after the July 29th lunch date and July 30th hospital admissions. By August 5th Gail and Heather were both dead, and Don died on the day of the interview.

I'd argue "porque no los dos?"

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I didn’t do it, that’s my plea,
Though all the facts point back to me.
If lies were coins, I’d be quite rich,
With every tale a perfect glitch.

The plate was black, or maybe red?
Or kindergarten art instead?
I served them all with love and flair,
Except the ones I didn't spare.

I Googled things? That can’t be right.
Unless I searched them late at night.
If someone did, well, maybe me
But only out of pure esprit!

The cake I ate, the trip to Tyabb,
The vomiting, a mere confab.
I couldn’t tell you what I said
My memory lives half-alive, half-dead.

I fled the ward, ignored the doc,
But not on purpose, ticked the clock.
Each version flexes, bends, and sways,
A new excuse for each new phase.

My tears appear when I’m in need,
To plant a sympathetic seed.
But if you press, my face will harden
I’m really just a fragile garden.

So judge me not, or if you do,
Remember, I’m the victim too.
It’s not my fault, I swear, I’m blessed
Just cursed with lies that won’t confess.

I love it! You win the internet today.

On a side note, how are you all laugh reacting to posts? I can't find a way to do it, and some posts really call for it. I'm mostly using a desktop PC.

 

[MrJ]

You need to become a Websleuths Guardian, paying about $3 USD a month to support the site; that will unlock the laugh react.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

As smart as EP may be, she doesn't seem to have a good understanding of how a digital footprint can track one's activities.

Hypothetically speaking, if she was using the extra mushrooms for practice, she should have just paid in cash with no rewards card. Similarly, she could have used private mode and/or a VPN to hide any internet activities. And also left her phone turned off when mushroom hunting.


Edit - Honestly, it's quite disappointing that a true crime fan would miss this. I hope if any of you are planning a "perfect crime" you will do better.

Ironically, if there is any reasonable doubt in this case it comes from the areas where surely Erin wouldn't have been so stupid. Surely she would have realised that killing 4 people would have brought intense scrutiny. Surely she would have disposed of the dehydrator beforehand. Surely she would have been more careful browsing online etc

Almost none of the reasonable doubt would be coming from her own testimony over 2 weeks. This has just been a mess of being caught out in lies and unlikely explanations. If anything she has removed quite a bit of the reasonable doubt.

 

[L_B]

I doubt they were leftovers from the meal though. I doubt she ever got them out of the freezer for that lunch.

I think she was deliberately deceptive in testifying that she fed the kids "leftovers" by describing them as having the mushrooms scraped off.

I don't even think she put them in the freezer to begin with... or maybe that's why there was talk of the steak being microwaved, to defrost perhaps?

She was totally being deceptive... from day dot at the hospital she said she scraped off the mushrooms, that's why she didn't think the children were affected at first.

But her compulsion to over-analyse every phrase and be pedantic about how things are worded took over and she just HAD to be like 'its not lunch leftovers, it's just leftovers'. I think that is a big slip of the tongue. Unless she considers the unused BW not a "lunch leftover"... but again it comes down to just being an obnoxious !@#$ IMO.

The steak the children ate either came from:
1) the leftover BW or Erin's BW. Had pastry/mushrooms scraped off. Children were not sick/poisoned. So one would assume this BW was either intentionally prepared sans poison; or just randomly lucky no poison fell into those BW but into the other 4 ate by the victims.
2) came from the freezer/fridge/unused steaks that didn't touch any mushroom.

Up to the jury to decide how the story all adds up I guess.

 

[L_B]

You need to become a Websleuths Guardian, paying about $3 USD a month to support the site; that will unlock the laugh react.

I was totally wondering that! Thanks for the info

 

[MaxDecimus13]

When talking about phone A, Erin also did another of her smart-alec replies that again makes her look bad.

She was asked why she didn't hand over Phone A when the police asked her for her phone. Her reply was something along the lines of that they only asked for the phone she was using right now, which was Phone B.

Because yeh, if you've just switched your sim card 20 minutes ago and somebody asks for your phone, you wouldn't consider mentioning this . Talk about trying to look like you're obstructing justice.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

See my above reply for another classic example of this. - sorry this is a failed quote to L_B...

When it comes to the frozen beef, this is one area where I think this must have already been found at the time which is why there is no push back against it. Unless of course it wasn't and enough time had passed for her to plausibly say it had been used.

 

[L_B]

Imagine she didn't take the stand, there is so much we wouldn't know (nor the jury!)

 

[katydid23]

If the steaks in the freezer were leftovers from the meal, then yes I would call them leftovers.

Why did she repeatedly say that she scraped the mushrooms off the meat so the kids were fine?

Doesn't that mean she was trying to convince others that she fed her kids leftovers from the lunch?

 

[katydid23]

I was shocked when I first learnt that a jury was literally a bunch of randoms and not a group of people with legal experience. It blew my mind, and even now it concerns me, given the type of people lurking in society right now. (Present company excluded of course)

' A jury of one's peers' is a legal promise. Is that a good thing anymore? lol

 

[JBowie]

On a side note, how are you all laugh reacting to posts?

Hover your mouse over the Like and you should see a bunch of emojis to select from.

 

[JBowie]

Why did she repeatedly say that she scraped the mushrooms off the meat so the kids were fine?

Doesn't that mean she was trying to convince others that she fed her kids leftovers from the lunch?

Yes, that bit could have been explored further IMO, too.

 

[katydid23]

Ironically, if there is any reasonable doubt in this case it comes from the areas where surely Erin wouldn't have been so stupid. Surely she would have realised that killing 4 people would have brought intense scrutiny. Surely she would have disposed of the dehydrator beforehand. Surely she would have been more careful browsing online etc

Almost none of the reasonable doubt would be coming from her own testimony over 2 weeks. This has just been a mess of being caught out in lies and unlikely explanations. If anything she has removed quite a bit of the reasonable doubt.

I agree.

Also, I think if the jury has listened closely they have heard her changing stories or details midstream.

She had repeatedly said that she scraped the mushrooms off and fed her children the leftover meat. And then at the end of her 5 day testimony she suddenly says " I told the kids they were eating leftovers but I never said they were lunch leftovers.'

WTH? I'm sure they caught that. To me it illustrates how she twists and turns her story around when it suits her. IMO

 

[katydid23]

Yes, that bit could have been explored further IMO, too.

I think it will be highlighted in the closing statement. lol

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Phone A 'may have been thrown out'​

Patterson said three computer devices had been in her house during the first police search on August 5.
She said two laptops were in use on November 2 when police conducted another search of the house.
'I don't know where it (phone A) was (on November 2),' she said.
Patterson said Phone A may have gone into a skip 'along with a lot of other broken stuff' in September 2023.
Patterson told the jury she got a skip once a year to do a 'clean out of the house and garage'.

Why Patterson switched back to old SIM​

Patterson was asked why she changed back to her old number despite previously saying she changed the SIM because of concerns about her security and Simon.
'As of Sunday evening when child protection became more involved it became clear Simon would need to contact me in regards to arrangements for the children,' Patterson said.


Daily Mail

Question for you all. Do you, or anyone you know, accumulate so much unwanted stuff that you do a massive clean out, and have enough junk to hire even a small skip,every year?
To me, you either acquire a lot of stuff that you keep fairly long term, or you don't. I can understand a good clear out every 5 years, or even an annual spring clean that produces a moderate amount of junk that doesn't call for a skip. To me, it's a bit like being a de-cluttering hoarding whiz - an oxy moron.

This is where she started with the semantics... when Dr Rogers said to her "lunch leftovers", Erin was like I never said "lunch leftovers". I think this is one of the occasions where she overplayed it with the semantics, she was trying to be a smartarse about it but I think it's very telling even though she insisted previously they ate the meat where she scraped off the mushrooms etc, she now is denying the food is "lunch leftovers".

Erin Patterson mushroom trial day 30 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

Erin Patterson questioned over what her children ate the day after fatal lunch

Prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC begins to ask Erin Patterson about evidence regarding what her children ate the day after the lunch.

In a pre-recorded police interview, Patterson’s children said their mother told them they were eating leftovers from the meal the following night. Patterson agrees she told her children they were eating leftovers for dinner on Sunday 30 July 2023.

Patterson says she told her children they were eating “leftovers” but not lunch leftovers.

I don't know if anyone, ever, has called items put into the freezer in their natural state, leftovers. (If that is what she's claiming with the steaks) To me, leftovers are usually what's actually "left over" from a meal. As in leftover stew, put into the fridge in its cooked state, and re-heated later. You might even call them leftovers if you froze the cooked and completed extras from the meal and then thawed them at a later date. At no point would anyone I know call say a chicken, steaks, a pasta bake etc that was bought and placed right into the freezer to eat later, leftovers. By that definition, ice cream is "leftovers".

If you're on the electoral role, you may get called up one day!
You'll have a head start after learning everything from this trial hehe

...but you may just be on a case where some fool has embezzled one million $ from their company books.

Yes, I have been called up a few times but chose to get out of it. Once I was pregnant and the other time I used the "too far" rule - from memory if you lived any more than 60km from the courthouse you could be excused. I know it's a right and a duty and all that, but I don't think I'm cut out to be a real life juror, especially in something violent or gory.

You need to become a Websleuths Guardian, paying about $3 USD a month to support the site; that will unlock the laugh react.

Ah, thank you for that. I thought it was a case of just not being enough of a tech head.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

' A jury of one's peers' is a legal promise. Is that a good thing anymore? lol

No. Have you seen the average human these days?

Hover your mouse over the Like and you should see a bunch of emojis to select from.

Thanks, I do use assorted emoji's from there, but apparently the laugh one is only available to those who subscribe to WS.

 

[JBowie]

No. Have you seen the average human these days?


Thanks, I do use assorted emoji's from there, but apparently the laugh one is only available to those who subscribe to WS.

There are 3 of them if you also click on the smiley face in the top line of the posting box:

 

[Sarahlou]

There are 3 of them if you also click on the smiley face in the top line of the posting box:

Those are to use in a post. We only have five to choose from when it comes to reacting to someone else's post - unless you subscribe to be a guardian.