Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[Kemug]

Dear @Shortfusepsb
That is an amazing poem, just brilliant! If/when Erin is found guilty, you should send it to the "Melbourne Age", or whatever. And I am thinking this might not be your first, have you put out a book I could buy?

 

[Megnut]

I think Erin's children are her Achilles Heel. I think she really does love them, and genuinely didn't want them to be alarmed by being tested for poison. But by objecting to that, it just raised more suspicion, and was another dot to connect. MOO

I'd love to debate you on this one. Because I think instinctively it's hard to inside a mother who doesn't love and isn't protective of her children...

But....

She shed a tear over gathering her daughter's ballet bag (that she wouldn't even need into the next day) (to explain why she so urgently needed to return home and what took so extra long iirc) but no tears shed for the lives lost? These were people her children knew and loved. Sadly, I think there's something very transactional in how EP relates to people.

All that worry about how to tell the children about her terminal elbosuction? We don't even have a documented illness or scheduled treatment of any kind. She used the children and a fake illness to garner sympathy.

I can't fathom it... but love? I don't know that she's knows what it is. Tragic because she had a husband, children, and in-laws who seemed to care genuinely for her.

JMO

 

[MissTilly]

I think Erin's children are her Achilles Heel. I think she really does love them, and genuinely didn't want them to be alarmed by being tested for poison. But by objecting to that, it just raised more suspicion, and was another dot to connect. MOO

I think Erin’s children are her Achilles Heel, but not because she loves them
rather, i think like most parents with narcissistic tendencies she sees them as possessions to be hoarded or extensions of herself to be controlled

 

[Megnut]

I think Erin’s children are her Achilles Heel, but not because she loves them
rather, i think like most parents with narcissistic tendencies she sees them as possessions to be hoarded or extensions of herself to be controlled

Yes, and if those same children showed any kind of loyalty to the other parent, watch the drama. Sadly, mere possessions.

JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Children are just possessions and pawns in a game for such people IMO.

Everything's a game for EP I think. I suspect she's seeing things in terms of transactions and programming or game theory - if this then that, if this then that.

She tests out a lie as if it were a science experiment, it has no emotional load for her because there's no genuine feelings or empathy there IMO. The 'truth' means nothing to her.

So she will say 'x', see where that lands in the situation, what the reaction or retort or consequence is unfavourable, then move to a different position and say, 'oh, OK then 'y'' because x did not play out well.

What people like that don't realise is
a) the rest of us don't think like that;
b) the rest of us can 'see' it, we see what she's doing;
c) how bad it makes her look from the perspective of people who do have emotions and empathy;
d) that she's boxing herself into logic fail / plot hole corners;
e) only a guilty person on the run from accountability would do such a thing;

By default this behaviour means she's guilty IMO.
Being falsely accused of killing people would bring out different responses from an innocent person.

JMO MOO

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I wonder exactly what EP was planning to do if SP had attended and all five guests had died.

If SP had attended he would have certainly passed away as he's already so vulnerable.

If SP hadn't alerted everyone to the concept of poisoning then all four of them would have certainly passed away.

Five dead people all passed away at the same time, that's what would have been the result of Plan A.

I still wonder if EP was hoping they'd be recorded as Covid deaths as a result of the pandemic?

JMO MOO

I think that is why I can't see this Plan A as a likely scenario is she is guilty. You can't rule it out but it would require an incredible level of naievity.

As I've said before, this case became internationally famous based off the fact that 3 people had died at a meal and the only one who escaped unscathed was the cook. At this point, we knew literally nothing else but a lot of people presumed she was guilty. It's inconceivable that she'd have potentially killed 5 and been the only survivor and would have thought she wouldn't have been public enemy number one.

Of course Erin is clever and probably thorough, but in this scenario it seems likely she made a miscalculation about the DC mushrooms. Even now, if you search how likely someone is to die on Google, the ai generated response quotes 10-30%. Maybe the act of powdering it meant it was much more potent than she realised it would be, and she was anticipating a much more mixed bag of illness and death to which she would fit into with a bit of gastro.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I agree.

Also, I think if the jury has listened closely they have heard her changing stories or details midstream.

She had repeatedly said that she scraped the mushrooms off and fed her children the leftover meat. And then at the end of her 5 day testimony she suddenly says " I told the kids they were eating leftovers but I never said they were lunch leftovers.'

WTH? I'm sure they caught that. To me it illustrates how she twists and turns her story around when it suits her. IMO

I heard this the other day but thought I was mishearing it. She can't possibly be now claiming they didn't eat leftovers from the meal can she?

 

[Megnut]

There can be no justice for the victims who died nor for those who loved them, but how ever the verdict falls, I hope that SP finds some validation and healing from EP being exposed as ... a truth dodger. Someone who is never wrong, slides the scale, shifts the blame, it's an exhaustive personality to face daily -- and where children are involved -- it's more complicated, harder to see, harder to leave.

We see it, SP.

When a person like EP drains the wellspring of those around them, they're still not satisfied. They'll take the well, the pump and the bucket too. And blame you, that they had to.

JMO

 

[MaxDecimus13]

A Beef Wellington is the perfect meal to hide a poisonous, pungent smelling mushroom. At least she got that part right. IMO.

It also allows for plausible deniability. If this had been found in a meal that doesn't contain mushrooms, then she's guilty simple as. It's just a matter of long she goes to jail.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

You have to wonder if Simon Illnesses can be linked back to Erin then this was not her first rodeo and she seemingly got away with that which could have given her a false sense of security.

ETA - I am not claiming she is guilty it’s just a theory!

Even though the jury can't use it, this is a significant piece of circumstantial evidence.

It is an exceptionally rare event that is followed up by an even more exceptionally rare event. Suddenly, it looks very very suspicious that one person was close to them both.

When you then consider that they are quote similar in that they involve poisoning and it becomes a compelling piece of evidence.

The more you see of it with everything else that has since happened, it becomes a situation where you have to consider just how unlucky could one person be?

 

[Megnut]

It also allows for plausible deniability. If this had been found in a meal that doesn't contain mushrooms, then she's guilty simple as. It's just a matter of long she goes to jail.

Which is really the bottom line here, at trial.

But IMO by taking the stand, EP herself clouded a defense of I did it, I added dried mushrooms which I'd foraged previously, I didn't know they were DCs, I never intended to hurt anyone, let alone cause death. I don't know why I was spared...

But instead she effectively testified against herself IMO. Never foraged, wasn't her, didn't look DCs up, didn't show up at that location, still blaming an Asian grocery, sticking with the scraping-off story while refusing to say she served the children a different medley altogether, then splitting words and mincing hairs over leftovers and left over and just generally disagreeing with absolutely every other witness' testimony.

Not one word of remorse.

I never should have used foraged mushrooms...

I never should have added additional mushrooms, especially since I couldn't be sure they were safe...

I feel terrible that the people are dead, from a meal I served.

Nope. None of that.

And the State did a textbook job on direct getting EP to disgree effortlessly on facts not in dispute so when the State asks the final three questions, the jury already has ample cause to disbelieve those answers as well.

Lie to me once....

JMO

 

[MaxDecimus13]

I think you (or someone who knows her) may have mentioned that she's an avid researcher, in which case my expectation is that she'd know full well the result for anyone who has ingested death caps. Again, the name alone indicates fatality.

If, for some perverted reason, she 'simply' wanted to make then all very ill, then I think she could have found other ingredients -- ask Simon!

Another factor to this is that these were elderly people whose systems would not necessarily be strong enough to fight off illness associated with some form of poisoning.

Even had they survived, they would have worked out that they became very ill as the result of that meal and, when you add that to Simon's previous experiences, she risked legal consequences.

I'm somebody who can be an avid researcher, but it isn't quite the same as meticulous. If I'm interested in a topic, I can be incredibly detailed, but equally I quite often find out assumptions that I've thought for years are actually wrong.

From what we know already, we know that Erin can be sloppy even when it matters a great deal. Take the situation with the Enrich clinic where she was caught out. Maybe she thought she'd seen that they did gastric bypass but hadn't bothered to double check this information.

As a theory, I suggest that Erin has seen something along the lines that DC have a 10-30% death rate (simply having a name death cap doesn't make them 100% lethal) and maybe with instances of hearing about survivors has made an assumption. She hasn't decided to seek them out specifically for this meal, but a post on inaturalist has peaked her interest enough for her to get some and then at some point has decided to put them into a meal.

All this time, she is still going by the assumption that they are 10-30% lethal. For whatever reason, she doesn't feel the need to look up specific amounts or details and adds them into the powder anticipating it will make them very sick and maybe kill one or two of them. This way it isn't really traceable to her as foul play because she also got sick.

However, the powdering has concentrated the dose and results in a much bigger and more sudden reaction causing her to panic and cover her tracks. Also, the severe reaction has made her situation look bizarre in comparison and not realistic.

 

[Megnut]

I'm'a gonna speculate that Stage VI tennis elbow wasn't EP's first exaggerated illness. Ever know someone like that? So desperate for attention, so entrusting that regular people could like them regularly, they're always creating drama to gain cheap validation?

She wasn't sick. But her storying went from an unnamed illness that would require some kind of harrowing treatment, to an elbow biopsy and a lot to digest, to Stage IV ovarian cancer to gastric bypass to liposuction. And why? Because IMO people like EP don't think people will stick around if they say the truth. Which is: I'm not sick. I don't think she's bulimia either. Just another WebMD convenience. She is overweight. Like a lot of people are. But IMO being overweight, if anything, was something she didn't eat to own and created this ridiculous construct of excuses in order to manipulate people. Short sighted. When the various diseases don't manifest but that's okay, people like EP will be on to the next disease, and if need be, the next audience.

How many times did she manipulate SP and even the children to feel bad for her, for illnesses she didn't have. Narc supply. Needy in a way she'd never admit.

JMO

 

[JBowie]

As a theory, I suggest that Erin has seen something along the lines that DC have a 10-30% death rate

Figures vary. Other sites say up to 50%. Regardless, all sites talk about the extreme toxicity of this plant and the small amounts of the toxin that can lead to death. Anyone knowingly putting them in a meal is playing with fire.

I'm not persuaded that she didn't know exactly what she was doing and I am of the opinion that her intent was for these old folks to no longer be 'a problem' for her.

 

[iridized]

Do we know anything about the makeup of the jury? I seem to recall, either I read it or dreamed it, that it was predominately male. Is that true?

 

[Sarahlou]

Do we know anything about the makeup of the jury? I seem to recall, either I read it or dreamed it, that it was predominately male. Is that true?

I read it's 9 men and 5 women. Originally 10 men but one was removed.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Figures vary. Other sites say up to 50%. Regardless, all sites talk about the extreme toxicity of this plant and the small amounts of the toxin that can lead to death. Anyone knowingly putting them in a meal is playing with fire.

I'm not persuaded that she didn't know exactly what she was doing and I am of the opinion that her intent was for these old folks to no longer be 'a problem' for her.

I'm not disputing the actual toxicity, I'm explaining how easy it would have been for Erin to assume it wasn't as toxic as many people think it is.

If you ChatGPT it now, it clearly states 10-30% reducing to less than 10% with the right treatment, it doesn't give another figure. Erin could very well have been working on this assumption.This doesn't in any way absolve her BTW.

We can't fully discount anything of course because if guilty we'll likely never know her motive, but I just don't find the idea that she thought she could murder 4/5 people and get on with her life very convincing. It would have to be an act of monumental self-sabotage or that of an unthinking murderer. It also raises the further questions of why those 4 particular people, and why she was so careless in hiding evidence.

When I look at the evidence and the definite facts we have, I see a woman who saw lying about having cancer as something that would benefit her. She looked for sympathy and got a kick out of people feeling sorry for her to the point where she faked it. If she was part of a great tragedy, then it would bring them closer together, and she could look like a saint for running around after the survivors despite having cancer.

 

[MsMarple]

Eewwwwww

Forget the DC mushrooms for a second.

Truth in advertising!!!!!! If I'm having lunch at someone's house, I would want to know that the filet I'm being served was already discounted on Wednesday and it's being served to me on Saturday. I'm out!!!

Thrifty EP, did she buy day-old filets, freeze them, to extend their life a bit, then thaw and serve them?

Dehydrated mushrooms in brownies.

That kitchen should be shut down.

JMO

I’m with you on that one!

Why the secrecy over adding foraged mushrooms - or in her case what Erin allegedly thought were stinky “Chinese” mushrooms? She went to the trouble of perking up the “bland” button mushrooms so why not share?

She certainly made a point of her hard work when Simon declined her invitation and even then didn’t tell him about the extra special duxelles. It’s a mystery.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I'm not disputing the actual toxicity, I'm explaining how easy it would have been for Erin to assume it wasn't as toxic as many people think it is.

If you ChatGPT it now, it clearly states 10-30% reducing to less than 10% with the right treatment, it doesn't give another figure. Erin could very well have been working on this assumption.This doesn't in any way absolve her BTW.

We can't fully discount anything of course because if guilty we'll likely never know her motive, but I just don't find the idea that she thought she could murder 4/5 people and get on with her life very convincing. It would have to be an act of monumental self-sabotage or that of an unthinking murderer. It also raises the further questions of why those 4 particular people, and why she was so careless in hiding evidence.

When I look at the evidence and the definite facts we have, I see a woman who saw lying about having cancer as something that would benefit her. She looked for sympathy and got a kick out of people feeling sorry for her to the point where she faked it. If she was part of a great tragedy, then it would bring them closer together, and she could look like a saint for running around after the survivors despite having cancer.

I think at the heart of this is MONEY. With those 4 dead,there would likely be inheritance, I’m guessing at least value of homes.

IMO
Simon’s cousins, to whom Erin loaned money, would have to pay it back to her,

Simon would inherit and could no longer be “deadbeat dad”

Erin wants her money back, she wants what’s hers. And wants Simon to pay a fair share.

I think the imbalance of the family financials annoys her, she thinks Simon’s family has gotten best of her. It was ok for her to be generous when she was in the heart of the family … valued and loved. But then that changed, she’s felt the sharp sting of rejection and the money issues enrage her. They ice her out AND owe her money!!! It seems she needs there to be balanced books in her own mind.

Plus some obvious emotional disregulation

 

[Megnut]

It seems that all her effort in clapping together puff pastries that she called BW was months in advance. Make of that what you will.

JMO