Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

[LinasK]

Yes, and that's why it looked so suspicious. Her kids ate some of the same meal that put 4 people into intensive care unit of the hospital. Surely, if EP had no idea what harmed them, she would be very worried about her kid's safety.

Erin said she didn't believe it was mushrooms that made the victims ill. If she didn't know what made them sick, why did she keep saying ' my kids didn't eat the mushrooms, they are OK.?'

How would she know that if she really didn't know what made the lunch guests so ill?

Bingo! If she really thought it was the "leftover" beef, she wouldn't have hesitated to pull them out of school and get them to the hospital to be tested. She KNEW that they didn't receive any poisoned portion of BW.

 

[Detechtive]

To anyone here that still thinks that Erin was merely trying to make her lunch guests sick, I suggest that you read this. Erin is a person who does her research.

Deathcap mushroom - Amanita phalloides

The Deathcap Mushroom - Amanita phalloides, identification, emergency phone number, one of several illustrated pages introducing Australian fungi.

www.anbg.gov.au

Agree @Jess D
The timing given above is approximate, for much depends on the general health of the individual and how much they’ve eaten. For example, if you’ve eaten a large meal of Deathcaps the symptoms could start as early as 6 hours after the meal.

The first symptoms are stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea. These may continue for a day or two, after which there is typically an easing of symptoms and apparent recovery. The "recovery" period may last for 2 or 3 days. Then the terminal phase of 3-5 days starts with the re-occurrence of stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea - accompanied by jaundice. Without effective, early medical intervention, coma and death occur between one and two weeks after eating the mushroom. Death is caused by liver failure, often accompanied by kidney failure.

IMO, she was relying on them thinking they had normal gastro and then 'recovering' for 2-3 days without medical intervention, at which point no trace of DC mushrooms would have been found in any samples. Then they die.

 

[Jess D]

 

[LinasK]

Agree @Jess D
The timing given above is approximate, for much depends on the general health of the individual and how much they’ve eaten. For example, if you’ve eaten a large meal of Deathcaps the symptoms could start as early as 6 hours after the meal.

The first symptoms are stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea. These may continue for a day or two, after which there is typically an easing of symptoms and apparent recovery. The "recovery" period may last for 2 or 3 days. Then the terminal phase of 3-5 days starts with the re-occurrence of stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea - accompanied by jaundice. Without effective, early medical intervention, coma and death occur between one and two weeks after eating the mushroom. Death is caused by liver failure, often accompanied by kidney failure.

IMO, she was relying on them thinking they had normal gastro and then 'recovering' for 2-3 days without medical intervention, at which point no trace of DC mushrooms would have been found in any samples. Then they die.

This is why she had to make herself appear to have vomiting and diarrhea.

 

[Old Soul]

For those of us that do not believe the mushroom lunch was a tragic accident, I am curious, do you think Erin was an experienced forager for wild edible mushrooms or do you think the dc mushroom gathering outings in Loch and Outtrim were her only foraging experiences?

I think I can see that either could be true, though there is only her word, and that of the anonymous friend quoted by the Daily Mail, that she is an experienced forager.

The reason I ask is because I was looking through Facebook and instagram posts from a Korumburra group called “Grow Lightly” (they appear to be a food co-op/ store in Korumburra) and found some posts about mushroom foraging workshops on June 21st, 2022.
I believe they are the same people that facilitated the mushroom growing workshop advertised in the “Burra Flyer” during Erin’s time as editor.


I am wondering if Erin either attended these workshops herself or used the details (types of mushrooms, locations: Korumburra Botanic Park and Great Southern Rail Trail) to inform her evidence as an “experienced forager”.

Interesting that this workshop was the week before her (allegedly) searching for dcs on iNaturalist too.

Some screenshots below from “grow lightly” on instagram and Facebook .
(IMO the person in the last picture in maroon parka even looks a bit like her, probably just my imagination though )

 

[Scuffy35]

I think that Erin also overplayed her hand regarding Phone A. Basically ... "oh, the police didn't take it, so I tossed it".

She clearly knew there was a search warrant that included her devices. Not helpful. Might even be called a hindrance.

imo

I wonder if Phone A was actually present that day of the search?

It probably would not have mattered as she undoubtedly would have performed multiped factory resets on it anyway (plus another one if it was in police custody for good measure).

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder if Phone A was actually present that day of the search?

It probably would not have mattered as she undoubtedly would have performed multiped factory resets on it anyway (plus another one if it was in police custody for good measure).

According to this (below), it sounds as if it was.

When talking about phone A, Erin also did another of her smart-alec replies that again makes her look bad.

She was asked why she didn't hand over Phone A when the police asked her for her phone. Her reply was something along the lines of that they only asked for the phone she was using right now, which was Phone B.

Because yeh, if you've just switched your sim card 20 minutes ago and somebody asks for your phone, you wouldn't consider mentioning this . Talk about trying to look like you're obstructing justice.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Agree @Jess D
The timing given above is approximate, for much depends on the general health of the individual and how much they’ve eaten. For example, if you’ve eaten a large meal of Deathcaps the symptoms could start as early as 6 hours after the meal.

The first symptoms are stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea. These may continue for a day or two, after which there is typically an easing of symptoms and apparent recovery. The "recovery" period may last for 2 or 3 days. Then the terminal phase of 3-5 days starts with the re-occurrence of stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea - accompanied by jaundice. Without effective, early medical intervention, coma and death occur between one and two weeks after eating the mushroom. Death is caused by liver failure, often accompanied by kidney failure.

IMO, she was relying on them thinking they had normal gastro and then 'recovering' for 2-3 days without medical intervention, at which point no trace of DC mushrooms would have been found in any samples. Then they die.

Truly horrendous but credit where it is due, a very well thought out crime and an ounce of luck her way and she might well have got away with it.

More than anything else, l'm guessing she is cursing that bad luck. 'Why me!'

 

[Bats]

Yes, and that's why it looked so suspicious. Her kids ate some of the same meal that put 4 people into intensive care unit of the hospital. Surely, if EP had no idea what harmed them, she would be very worried about her kid's safety.

Erin said she didn't believe it was mushrooms that made the victims ill. If she didn't know what made them sick, why did she keep saying ' my kids didn't eat the mushrooms, they are OK.?'

How would she know that if she really didn't know what made the lunch guests so ill?

Erin wasn't told that the doctors thought her guests had DC poisioning until she fronted to hostpital on the Monday. Until then, her version is that she had no idea what had caused the 4 people to become ill. It was only after she was told about the possibility of DC poisioning that she said her kids hadn't eaten mushrooms.

 

[Detechtive]

For those of us that do not believe the mushroom lunch was a tragic accident, I am curious, do you think Erin was an experienced forager for wild edible mushrooms or do you think the dc mushroom gathering outings in Loch and Outtrim were her only foraging experiences?

I think I can see that either could be true, though there is only her word, and that of the anonymous friend quoted by the Daily Mail, that she is an experienced forager.

The reason I ask is because I was looking through Facebook and instagram posts from a Korumburra group called “Grow Lightly” (they appear to be a food co-op/ store in Korumburra) and found some posts about mushroom foraging workshops on June 21st, 2022.
I believe they are the same people that facilitated the mushroom growing workshop advertised in the “Burra Flyer” during Erin’s time as editor.
View attachment 595046

I am wondering if Erin either attended these workshops herself or used the details (types of mushrooms, locations: Korumburra Botanic Park and Great Southern Rail Trail) to inform her evidence as an “experienced forager”.

Interesting that this workshop was the week before her (allegedly) searching for dcs on iNaturalist too.

Some screenshots below from “grow lightly” on instagram and Facebook .
(IMO the person in the last picture in maroon parka even looks a bit like her, probably just my imagination though )

View attachment 595033View attachment 595034View attachment 595035View attachment 595036

IMO she was an experienced forager for poisonous plants.

 

[LinasK]

IMO she was an experienced forager for poisonous plants.

I think so too. She knew exactly what to look for.

 

[JBowie]

IMO she was an experienced forager for poisonous plants.

She admitted to foraging for mushrooms over quite a long period:

Erin Patterson has told her triple-murder trial she first began foraging wild mushrooms during Victoria's COVID lockdowns, years before hosting her in-laws for a fatal meal.

Erin Patterson tells jury she accepts death cap mushrooms were in meal

Erin Patterson tells her triple-murder trial she first began foraging wild mushrooms during Victoria's COVID lockdowns, years before hosting her in-laws for a fatal meal.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Detechtive]

She admitted to foraging for mushrooms over quite a long period:

Erin Patterson has told her triple-murder trial she first began foraging wild mushrooms during Victoria's COVID lockdowns, years before hosting her in-laws for a fatal meal.

Erin Patterson tells jury she accepts death cap mushrooms were in meal

Erin Patterson tells her triple-murder trial she first began foraging wild mushrooms during Victoria's COVID lockdowns, years before hosting her in-laws for a fatal meal.

www.abc.net.au

Yes but that's not what the evidence says. That's her word, which we know isn't reliable.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I saved this article about the delivery of the toxins to the organs. I agree the delivery would likely be much faster if the death caps were powdered because less digestion would be required. imo

Early and massive hydration seems to be key in flushing the toxins from the system. Hydration which was likely initially impossible with the victims suffering from vomiting and diarrhea for hours and hours at home.


"Upon ingestion of death cap, about 60 percent of the absorbed amatoxins travel directly to the liver. Both poisoned and healthy liver cells spit out amatoxins into bile, which is then concentrated in the gall bladder.
At the end of the small intestine, most of the bile gets reabsorbed back into the liver. Amatoxins re-enter the liver via the same receptors as the bile salts, and the poisoning cycle repeats.

The other 40 percent of absorbed amatoxins initially make a beeline to the kidneys, which serve as the blood-waste treatment center of the body.
Until the kidneys kick out every last bit of poison, amatoxins continue damaging the liver. The kidneys can continue to function only if the victim stays sufficiently hydrated.

Without aggressive hydration, amatoxins poison the kidneys as well. After the kidneys fail, rapid organ failure is not far behind."

The Most Dangerous Mushroom Is Spreading. Here’s How to Treat Poisoning.

The death cap mushroom likely kills and poisons more people every year than any other mushroom. Now there finally appears to be an effective...

slate.com

I wonder if any of the victims had their gall bladders removed, and whether this had any impact on the absorption rate?

 

[JBowie]

Yes but that's not what the evidence says. That's her word, which we know isn't reliable.

A pay-walled article in The Age quotes her as saying she foraged on walks with her kids during COVID. I thought she denied the kids being with her during mushroom foraging?

 

[Ellery84]

Agree @Jess D
The timing given above is approximate, for much depends on the general health of the individual and how much they’ve eaten. For example, if you’ve eaten a large meal of Deathcaps the symptoms could start as early as 6 hours after the meal.

The first symptoms are stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea. These may continue for a day or two, after which there is typically an easing of symptoms and apparent recovery. The "recovery" period may last for 2 or 3 days. Then the terminal phase of 3-5 days starts with the re-occurrence of stomach pains, vomiting and diarrhoea - accompanied by jaundice. Without effective, early medical intervention, coma and death occur between one and two weeks after eating the mushroom. Death is caused by liver failure, often accompanied by kidney failure.

IMO, she was relying on them thinking they had normal gastro and then 'recovering' for 2-3 days without medical intervention, at which point no trace of DC mushrooms would have been found in any samples. Then they die.

IMO she gave them such a significant quantity of DC’s that they became much sicker, much quicker than she had expected - which the medical staff responded to with appropriate concern and alarm.

All moo

 

[HoneyBunOne]

For those of us that do not believe the mushroom lunch was a tragic accident, I am curious, do you think Erin was an experienced forager for wild edible mushrooms or do you think the dc mushroom gathering outings in Loch and Outtrim were her only foraging experiences?

I think I can see that either could be true, though there is only her word, and that of the anonymous friend quoted by the Daily Mail, that she is an experienced forager.

Shortened by me.
I think she did have some experience as a forager, but maybe not as much as has been claimed. I do feel like she was trying to appear like a more experienced forager, so that she could perhaps claim to have used foraged mushrooms plenty of times without any issues. Her son said she took photos of a mushroom on a walk once, I believe she shared photos of her dried mushrooms with online friends, and there was information about a "grow your own mushrooms" class in the local newsletter Erin was editor of, that's about all we know to be true. I doubt Erin attended that workshop, or else we'd know about it. I find that interesting. If she was so into mushrooms at that point, then surely she'd want to attend? Better than buying them from the supermarket at $10-$11 a kilo. Nobody seems to be able to corroborate the story of her going foraging as a family, and with the extended family too, in fact they say it didn't happen.

She did have a more than an average interest in mushrooms. She dehydrated them, crushed them and put them into all sorts of things. That I believe. She may also have had books on mushrooms but I don't know if that was proven. I'm just not certain which came first - her interest in mushrooms, or the thought that deadly mushrooms can be used for nefarious purposes. I'm thinking the later may have lead to the former.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Yes but that's not what the evidence says. That's her word, which we know isn't reliable.

One thing we know for certain is that if she is guilty we'll never know why she did it.

Even if she is found guilty and is given life in prison, and one day admits guilt and explains why, we won't be able to trust it. She has demonstrated herself to be a liar to the level where she will twist anything to make herself look better.

 

[katydid23]

What an extraordinary exchange.

Dr Rogers: How long did you lie down for?

Ms Patterson: I don't know.

Dr Rogers: That's untrue, isn't it? … It's untrue that you lay down?

Ms Patterson: No.

Dr Rogers: Surely that's the last thing you would do in these circumstances?

Ms Patterson: It might be the last thing you'd do, but it was something I did.

Dr Rogers: After you'd been told by medical staff that you had potentially ingested a life-threatening poison, isn't it the last thing that you would do, is to lie down in those circumstances?

Ms Patterson: They didn't tell me it was life-threatening.

The moments from Erin Patterson's evidence that didn't make headlines

Amid repeated prosecution accusations of murder, deceit and cover-up, there were exchanges about the right time for a "lie down" and errors in the days of the week, as Erin Patterson finished her evidence.

www.abc.net.au

Sure thing Erin, they didn't tell you it was life threatening, but your 4 lunch guests are in intensive care in critical condition, the doctors begged you to stay in the hospital for emergency treatment and they sent Simon to go pick up your kids and rush them in for testing.

But they never said it was urgent or serious?

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Sure thing Erin, they didn't tell you it was life threatening, but your 4 lunch guests are in intensive care in critical condition, the doctors begged you to stay in the hospital for emergency treatment and they sent Simon to go pick up your kids and rush them in for testing.

But they never said it was urgent or serious?

Perhaps the only thing she saw as urgent or serious at the time was that her perfect crime hadn't worked out the way she expected.